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Topic: Curious how the SCP is coming along!
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673747123ae4aDrone-Dragon

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If you guys are using ADaoB as a guide for some of the baseline changes, I hope you guys set the assault rifle back to req. 6 standard skill rather than 3 it is with the mod. Also I think the mod makes the shotgun 2 standard rather than 3, wish that was back to normal too. 8)

Also, I'm not sure if this was a problem with vanilla Shock 2, but with the ADaoB mod changing the laser pistol blast to a long energy beam rather than just a bolt, I think it may be causing a problem somewhere, as with ADaoB installed whenever I use the overcharge for the laser pistol 7 out of 10 shots seem to crash the game. :/

673747123b032voodoo47

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yes to everything. as mentioned before, in SCP, the game mechanics are true to the vanilla gameplay.

673747123b2d2Drone-Dragon

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yes to everything. as mentioned before, in SCP, the game mechanics are true to the vanilla gameplay.

Also, if you guys are removing any Epsteins, auto-repairs, etc., make sure to leave 4 ICE-Picks in the game at least, 1 pick for the resonator you HAVE to get, and 3 others so a melee only character can defeat Shodan, so that we are not forced to get the hacking skill all the time.

 :thumb:

673747123b3cdvoodoo47

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this has been left at the ADaoB values - that means some are removed, depending on the difficulty I believe.

673747123b658Drone-Dragon

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this has been left at the ADaoB values - that means some are removed, depending on the difficulty I believe.

I remember that, but I should probably point out a possible mistake on Straylight's part. Back when he was still working on it, he says in the notes and changelogs that he put back at least 4 ICE-Picks for even impossible difficulty for the reasons I mentioned above, but I swear when I played it recently there were only 3 picks. You might wanna check that just to be on the safe side, although I may just have missed one in my haste. Thankfully I WAS a hacker character that time so it wasn't a big deal then. :P

Sorry if I made more work for you guys, just wanna make sure they're all there. :(

673747123b7c3ZylonBane

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Do you remember where the missing ICE pick was supposed to be?

673747123bd4eDrone-Dragon

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Do you remember where the missing ICE pick was supposed to be?

As I said above, I'm not exactly sure it really is missing, I may have just missed it in my haste this time around. If there is any way you can check their locations more reliably...

Okay I just did something...I went searching online for the ICE-Pick locations, and found this visual walkthrough. Assuming he or she found all of them, there use to be at least 5 picks in the game. Of course now there should only be 4, but you can use this to hopefully identify in the editor if all 4 are in the SCP as needed(and only 4 pleeeeez XD). Make sure where they are isn't a randomized item location or we may not find one. Check them all, but I THINK MAYBE the one I didn't find was the operations deck in the crate by the eggs one. I'm probably wrong though, so double check me. O_o

Below are addresses and associated text he/she took/wrote, First Thought//Giver of Will knows all. I got the images with Firefox so you might have to use that to view the images, it might go to them anyway in IE or another browser...I'm gonna go have a brain annurism now(I don't think I spelled that right). :stroke:

http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/systemshock2/systemshock2walkthrough.htm



http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/systemshock2/hydroponics1/38.jpg

38. Tread lightly as the area is filled with eggs, some of which are toxic. This body has nice loot; 18 nanites, an ICE pick for instant hacking and a keycard to Hydroponics Sector A.



http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/systemshock2/operations1/26.jpg

26. More eggs! And worth it too; in one of the eggs I find a healing gland and 3 cyber modules were in one of the crates. The second crate wasn't bad either with an ICE pick and 6 rifled slugs. Ok, time to see what's up with our hanging dude.



http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/systemshock2/recreational1/16.jpg

16. On this first body I find an ICE pick. Turning right, in a small room, I encounter two eggs and find a body with a hazard suit, an anti-toxin hypo and grenades. I move on and get rid of several eggs on my way.



http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/systemshock2/command1/34.jpg

34. I find the cyborg facing the other way, so I quickly hypnotize it and go on the other side of the room. I see a security station I could hack if I had remote hacking, which I don't. In the desk I find 20 nanites and on the table is a modification version 2 software plus an ICE pick.



http://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/systemshock2/rickenbacker1/30.jpg

30. There's a real welcoming party past this first door toward Pod 2! I hack the security station under the cover of invisibility. The dead body has a version 3 hacking software and a log from Croker. An Ice-pick is on the floor too. I pick all this up and move forward past the turrets and left.
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I don't see why there shouldn't be more picks available than you need, at least on easier difficult.
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The first time I played the game, I played on easy. I ended up conquering the game on every difficulty after my first play through. But, if you are new to SS2 and aren't told certain things ahead of time... it can be pretty difficult even on easy difficulty. I am not opposed to making easy a tiny bit easier by adding an extra pick or two.   :thumb:
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The first time I played the game, I played on easy. I ended up conquering the game on every difficulty after my first play through. But, if you are new to SS2 and aren't told certain things ahead of time... it can be pretty difficult even on easy difficulty. I am not opposed to making easy a tiny bit easier by adding an extra pick or two.   :thumb:

+1

673747123c844Drone-Dragon

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 :/ Err, easy, normal and hard having more ICE-Picks was probably a given to the guys working on it, that isn't what I was talking about at all. I was talking about that even on impossible difficulty I thought one ICE-Pick might be missing, as on that difficulty there are supposed to be at MOST and at LEAST 4 and regardless of difficulty should be at LEAST 4. Because even on impossible you still have to get the resonator, and you can still play as a melee character (1 pick for the resonator as non-hacker character, 3 for Shodan as a melee character).

You guys completely missed what I was talking to them about.  XD

673747123c910voodoo47

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I believe 4 picks are available even on impossible.
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(1 pick for the resonator as non-hacker character, 3 for Shodan as a melee character).

I'm not sure I agree with this. A "melee character" is a self-imposed restriction. Sure, to get any kind of ranged weapon you have to put modules into the respective skills (unless at least one of those skills are *always* given to you at the start, I not sure on that) but I don't see why the balance of systems has to be screwed because some nutter wants to run through the whole game with a wrench. I'd rather a custom script that on Where Am I? that checks the player's inventory post play and spawns some ICE's at set locations on that map if the player only has a melee weapon, no ranged. Those ICE's aren't the sole problem though, it's more that most hackable objects do not require more than hack lvl 3 to attempt. If there were more with a higher requirement then that amount of ICE's would be fine.

Anyway, a melee character is a self-imposed restriction and should not take priority over balance of systems, that's silly. Unless the devs claimed that the game was designed with melee-only in mind? There is not a melee specialist career path at the start, that I know. Either way it shouldn't take priority over such an important thing in my opinion, especially when there are other solutions to look to, and what is to stop a wrench wielding maniac from picking up an assault rifle just for the boss' shield? Just because they have a self-imposed no ranged rule? Lets say I make a self-imposed no ICE or hacking rule- I wouldn't be able to beat the game, should it then be changed to accommodate such a playstyle, even if this fucks with systems further?
« Last Edit: 26. December 2013, 01:17:24 by Join usss! »
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SCP supposedly does not alter the original gameplay. IIRC vanilla SS2 provides 4 ICE picks on impossible, so SCP should do that too, no matter what other arguments are brought forth.

673747123d576Drone-Dragon

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I'm not sure I agree with this. A "melee character" is a self-imposed restriction. Sure, to get any kind of ranged weapon you have to put modules into the respective skills (unless at least one of those skills are *always* given to you at the start, I not sure on that) but I don't see why the balance of systems has to be screwed because some nutter wants to run through the whole game with a wrench. I'd rather a custom script that on Where Am I? that checks the player's inventory post play and spawns some ICE's at set locations on that map if the player only has a melee weapon, no ranged. Those ICE's aren't the sole problem though, it's more that most hackable objects do not require more than hack lvl 3 to attempt. If there were more with a higher requirement then that amount of ICE's would be fine.

Anyway, a melee character is a self-imposed restriction and should not take priority over balance of systems, that's silly. Unless the devs claimed that the game was designed with melee-only in mind? There is not a melee specialist career path at the start, that I know. Either way it shouldn't take priority over such an important thing in my opinion, especially when there are other solutions to look to, and what is to stop a wrench wielding maniac from picking up an assault rifle just for the boss' shield? Just because they have a self-imposed no ranged rule? Lets say I make a self-imposed no ICE or hacking rule- I wouldn't be able to beat the game, should it then be changed to accommodate such a playstyle, even if this fucks with systems further?

Actually the point is that there is supposed to be variety in what play styles are available. Saying that melee only is a self-imposed restriction and not a class/play style is like saying energy weapons/psi combo is a self imposed restriction, or energy/exotic combo is a self-imposed restriction rather than play style.

I'm trying to keep the game true to the way it should be and help in some small way to prevent mistakes, nothing more.

I don't see how the balance of systems could be screwed by making it more balanced, and I don't see how you not liking certain peoples play styles is relevant?

Also, didn't you remove ALL re-breathers in your GMDX mod to make the game more balanced? Essentially that is what is being done here, balancing.

Why the wrench? There be a perfectly good laser rapier and crystal shard! ARRR! :pirate:

673747123d6d8Drone-Dragon

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If you guys working on the SCP could make the health hypos and medkits scale better per difficulty too that would be awesome. Even on impossible difficulty I found myself floating on medkits and health hypos. I even used some extra ones I didn't need to use to make it more challenging by giving myself less, and I was swimmin' in them suckers regardless! XD

The same could be said of anti-radiation hypos, even if you don't buy any, regardless of difficulty there are always WAY too many of the things.

Anti-Poison hypos seem to be fine, you get a little or a lot more randomly.

Psi-Hypos are FINE. DON'T reduce them AT ALL. :P
« Last Edit: 31. December 2013, 06:08:02 by Drone-Dragon »
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If you guys working on the SCP could make the health hypos and medkits scale better per difficulty too that would be awesome. Even on impossible difficulty I found myself floating on medkits and health hypos. I even used some extra ones I didn't need to use to make it more challenging by giving myself less, and I was swimmin' in them suckers regardless! XD

The same could be said of anti-radiation hypos, even if you don't buy any, regardless of difficulty there are always WAY too many of the things.

Anti-Poison hypos seem to be fine, you get a little or a lot more randomly.

Psi-Hypos are FINE. DON'T reduce them AT ALL. :P


I'm not sure you realize, balance changes aren't made based on the experience of one person. Not trying to sound rude, but asking them to change things like this based on your experience alone, is frankly pretty silly.


              ;)

673747123dadcvoodoo47

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indeed - if you watch some youtube LPs, you'll notice that most players are starved for health.
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It might be nice to tie loot drops to what the player already has, ie if you have 20+ health hypos the hybrids would be more likely to drop other stuff. But none of this is in the scope of SCP I think.

673747123dd31voodoo47

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while this mechanic (drop more healing items when the player is low on healing items) makes a lot of sense, I can't say I like it too much. it smells of console dumb downs.
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while this mechanic (drop more healing items when the player is low on healing items) makes a lot of sense, I can't say I like it too much. it smells of console dumb downs.


100% this ^
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Actually I described it the other way around: Drop less hypos if the user has a certain number.
You would never get more hypos than you get now. Overall the number of hypos would be reduced. Which was the initial question.
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Actually I described it the other way around: Drop less hypos if the user has a certain number.
You would never get more hypos than you get now. Overall the number of hypos would be reduced. Which was the initial question.


The only reason I feel opposed to this, is because the game in its current form is fine in terms of hypos. I just think it is a needless change. Don't fix something that isn't broken. (if you catch my drift! ;) )
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