Curious how the SCP is coming along!

[67407a077d6a8ZylonBane]

It would be useful if people could report where they most often witness spawning.

[67407a077db41Drone-Dragon]

'Everything said about Corridor of Death.'

About the only time that section is a problem is when you are playing an all melee or mostly melee character, and then only because of the suicide droids.

To be honest, I'd rather have more spawning points and enemies added to that one section of Ops...if there are any spawning points there at all, lol.

I forget the exact area, but in the map/section of Ops that has that long corridor with the 'leaking green gas' you have to go around with a recharge station nearby, it seems like nothing ever spawns. I guess they were all down in Engineering .

[67407a077e032Marvin]

It would be useful if people could report where they most often witness spawning.

The spawn point behind the large door next to the chemical storage in Med/Sci. Actually happened twice.

[67407a077e2e4Drone-Dragon]

It would be useful if people could report where they most often witness spawning.

I'm not sure the exact position, but when you get off the elevator on Hydroponics, that square space that leads to a corridor to the left and double doors to the right has a spawn place somewhere in it, as I remember seeing either a hybrid or midwife materialize out of the swirling energies...myyyssstical.

[67407a077e51fvoodoo47]

another question for all the SCP Joes - many of SS2's world object models are oversized (some of them ridiculously, like the stasis field generator). this is most probably a remnant of times when people were playing the game in the 640*480 resolution, and with unreliable graphics drivers - making the items huge was probably the only way of making sure the players would not overlook them easily. the situation is a bit different today, and seeing a weapon almost as big as the corpse nearby (and realizing that Goggles is usually lugging five or more of them around) is slightly immersion breaking.

should this be fixed, and the oversized items brought to saner dimensions?


the picture shows 25% size reduction on the rifle and booze, and 40% on the stasis field generator.

[makemesmall.jpg expired]

[67407a077e6aagnartsch]

Uhhh... I never realized that - except for the stasis field generator. 
But yeah, giving it the right size is ansolutely OK.
If one can get used to oversize items without noticing, then one surely gets used to the right sizing as well. 

[67407a077e7e0ZylonBane]

I vote against going down this path. Other than joking references to the six-foot-long wrench, I've never, ever, seen anyone complain about the size of objects. What I do see people complain about is sometimes overlooking objects. Irrational knew what they were doing making everything so big.

This would have a real (if slight) negative gameplay effect as well, because smaller objects would require more precision to pick up. Fitts's Law and all that.

[67407a077e959voodoo47]

certainly not the most common complaint out there, but I did see some people noticing when watching youtube LPs (wrench, fusion cannon, and especially the stasis field generator). as for requiring more precision when picking up - come on, if people can pick up ice-pick without problems, they would surely manage to grab a 25% size-reduced assault rifle as well. as for noticing the objects, as mentioned, I can see this being a problem when playing in the 640*480 resolution with broken z-buffer, but in fullhd and under NewDark.. not really.

anyway, this can be made fully (dml) optional, if need be. also, this is not beta1 stuff - just collecting ideas here. but one way or another, I consider this a discrepancy - especially because most objects, while being slightly larger, have much more sane proportions.

[67407a077ea7aZylonBane]

Speaking of realism, ever noticed that there's only one of every keycard on the entire ship? No wonder everyone was always getting locked out of things.

[67407a077eb87voodoo47]

worms ate the rest. this explanation works every time (when something is missing). I'd like to think that what we are trying to achieve here is not realism, but harmony.

[67407a077f14dJoin2]

worms ate the rest. this explanation works every time (when something is missing).

Lol.

I vote for. I see no reason not to fix this. Quest items are often times small (keycards, and as said, there is only one of each).
Guns are optional and numerous.

I have noticed the ridiculous size of both of those weapons before, took me put of the game for a sec.
I never noticed the alcohol was oversized though, and yes they look better resized.

I vote against going down this path. Other than joking references to the six-foot-long wrench, I've never, ever, seen anyone complain about the size of objects. What I do see people complain about is sometimes overlooking objects. Irrational knew what they were doing making everything so big.

This would have a real (if slight) negative gameplay effect as well, because smaller objects would require more precision to pick up. Fitts's Law and all that.

This is all reasoning that disappoints me, I never expected as much. Requiring more precision has a negative impact on gameplay? I suggest you install System Shock: Infinite, right up your alley :p
As for the size, well you have read above what I think.

[67407a077f4d0ZylonBane]

Requiring more precision has a negative impact on gameplay? I suggest you install System Shock: Infinite, right up your alley :p

You don't even know what Fitts's Law is, do you.

[67407a077f5f6bluemess]

Agree with Join usss!. Some items did stand out for me as oversized, with SFG as the most striking example. Looks much better downscaled.

[67407a077f730voodoo47]

as I've said, I see this as being about harmony. ZB does have a point (as always, I might add), but I like to boil things down to be as simple as possible - and in this case, the question would be, which picture has more harmony?

[67407a077f8d4Join2]

@ZB: I didn't until reading your post. I don't agree with applying the model to game design. Pretty much all Immersive Sims, heck games in general strive for realistic object sizes. Even TES:Skyrim, even after all the simplifications applied to the game it's interaction remains the same: objects are still of realistic scale, numerous, are not highlighted until in your cursor and so on. It becomes an enjoyable skill after time playing these game types, watch somebody play and observe their speed at looting and general interaction.

^just look at the guy in the armour, hilarious.

[67407a077fa77voodoo47]

exactly. and "hilarious" is not what we want the game to be, now do we.

[67407a077fbf7Kolya]

I think this is an intentional gameplay mechanic that should not be changed. Stuff in SS2 is enlarged so much as it would be if you held it in your hands (because you can't do that). This helps to notice stuff and recognise what it is if you don't know it. The stasis field generator may be an exception.

[67407a077fcfdMarvin]

Might make sense for the really huge stuff but then you have to change alot of other stuff, too, like adjusting the clip size to the assault rifle (and the pistol), meaning you just opened Pandora's box. So keep it shut.

[67407a077fedavoodoo47]

only pistol and shotgun ammo would have to be resized, prisms are ok - as already pointed out, for some reason, only part of the items is so oversized.

there is no doubt that the oversizing was intentional, and served a purpose at the time of the first release - however, I believe that this purpose is not there anymore, and now it's only causing unnecessary ugliness/discrepancy. remember, we are trying to avoid WTF situations as much as possible, and if you look at that last picture, well, WTF describes it pretty accurately. no weapon or armor should be as big as a human being. two thirds are believable, but anything beyond that is WTF territory. also, I find it hard to believe that players will somehow have problems noticing a fusion cannon that will still be 2/3 size of a man after its size has been reduced. sorry but nope, I firmly believe the oversizing was there to help circumvent display problems resulting from low resolutions and buggy drivers (and I mean 1999 buggy), and as that is no longer an issue, we should modify the game assets accordingly.

but do note that ZB is the main SS2 guy here, so if he says screw all the votes it ain't happening in the main branch, then it ain't. in that case, I'll probably make a dml addon - shouldn't be too difficult.

[67407a077fff5ZylonBane]

I'm just throwing in my vote here. What the community wants, it gets. Unless the community wants something stupid.

That being said, the man-sized wrench has become somewhat iconic in SS2, and I don't think people would enjoy seeing it shrunk down to normal size.

[67407a07802f1voodoo47]

normal size, no. buut shaving a little off the top should be pretty ok. a wrench the size of two thirds of a man may not be the size of a man, but it's still a pretty big wrench (also, the previous version of Tacticool wrench world model has been noticeably smaller, and while people were complaining that it was reversed when wielded in multiplayer, the size reduction was actually liked, if memory serves. will have to look it up to be sure).

What the community wants, it gets. Unless the community wants something stupid.

I like where this democracy is heading.

[67407a07806b6Join2]

I find it hard to believe that oversized objects was purely by design. There must be something else to it, engine related, even a lack of communication I don't know, as I find it rather ridiculous it was done purely for, what's the word, "accessibility", or "convenience". I look at SS2 and it strikes me as if they took little compromise, which is why I love it so.   
I just don't see this decision being in-line with the designers' vision at all. Maybe I am wrong, every game has it's flaws and wtf moments, but this is bizarre.

Now I think of it all items in general are a little larger than their real life counterparts. Odd decision. "Hey guys lets make an awesome simulation with much gameplay depth, rather high difficulty level and learning curve etc but make this major compromise: Super-sized objects, because in the 2100's as tech advances it gets bigger".
Not everyone thinks the same, perhaps it was a compromise made within the development team in the drawing room "I'll let you have psionic monkeys if you make objects larger", as a shitty example.
I'm done with this topic for I know nothing and it is annoying me. I am definitely in favour of scaling them down in size though.

meaning you just opened Pandora's box. So keep it shut.

They've already opened the box by starting SCP
When it comes to oversized objects I'm assuming to fix this they just simply change some values. Simple. Even if they cannot fix them all so easily some are better than none. Myself and my partner have fixed about 20 bugs/exploits in Deus Ex, and plenty anomalies, there is no way we can catch em all but the more the better, even though it's not our focus with the mod.
I'd be happy if only a few items were resized at least as that's a less amount of times I will be taken out of the game. The assault rifle does every time.

Now I am done.

[67407a0780822Salk]

I vote for the reduction. If it's harmony that you are after (and less ridiculous sizes for items), then that's the way to go.

[67407a0780b85RocketMan]

Just in case you guys didn't know, there are big wrenches out there.  This is perhaps the most believable exaggeration of the size of something:

http://robnoxious.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/dcfc02422.jpg