Curious how the SCP is coming along!

[67403ffe658c3ZylonBane]

The important thing to note here is that playing System Shock 2 with respawning turned off is like being served a perfectly cooked top grade steak, and covering it with ketchup.

[67403ffe65a52Kolya]

Mmmmh, ketchup!

[67403ffe65be9xdiesp]

One area which I think is very beatiful, but almost hidden, is the FTL engine exhausts you can see outside of the engi2 bridge. I mean those blue parts outside the windows, maybe they are not the FTL engines but they are fascinating. I think it would be lovely to be able to see it better, either there or from other windows. It's impressive when you see the hull detail when noclipping through the Rick, quite a pity those vistas are neglected.

Something that was a staple of Star Trek starships, were diagrams of the ship on every damn computer screen around. I wouldn't dislike knowing what the ship looks like, because it gives a sense of place, and also gives a poor newbie a vague idea of how decks are organized. Even walkthroughs for the game, are sometimes confused about the "loading bays" and "shuttle buys" being different places.

And it would help me understand, too, what exactly is the tram area in Command 1. If it's the connection between the 2 ships, then I don't know why the entry to the Rick is in the middle.

[67403ffe65ed8Salk]

The important thing to note here is that playing System Shock 2 with respawning turned off is like being served a perfectly cooked top grade steak, and covering it with ketchup.

I am vegetarian.

[67403ffe66201xdiesp]

I am vegetarian.

About the respawn rate: yes, there are areas where it is just excessive to the point of ridicule. That place is not called the "corridor of death" for no reason.

But to heavily turn respawning off (I wonder how many people tried to, before "knowing" that respawn is inherently good or bad), you start noticing that the levels become extremely empty and there's nothing to do within. Both on your first go, and backtracking afterwards. <-- this is important

So it's really 2 goals to achieve: while backtracking, you have to keep populating the emptied levels somehow or you'll be playing a mmporg with a server population of 1; and on the first go, you need to experience the hunt as it should be.

I think that while the already existing respawn mod is good, and even has options, the product that complainers about respawning want is one where (1) some areas are just fixed, as the aforementioned corridor, but most importantly 2) the respawn rate for backtracking goes down as you complete main objectives.

[67403ffe6639cKolya]

That's not what LGS/IG wanted though. When you reached OPS for example and track back to med you'll find that the lower levels are jammed with harder enemies. Suddenly you have rumblers on med, etc.
This serves two purposes: A) It shows the player that the ship is actually being overtaken by the Many and he's not the single point of action on this ship. This means immersion, because things happen independently of your actions while you're on another level.
B) The devs wanted the player to proceed upwards without artificially cutting off parts of the ship behind him, as so many others games do in this situation. Instead they allowed the player to backtrack arbitrarily but made it very difficult. This is pure genius.

Gamers who complain about respawning in SS2 either haven't tried it or are too stuck in their learned ways of playing games, where progression only ever comes from the player (ie player centric worlds).

[67403ffe6659fxdiesp]

If players complain about "respawns" instead of "the Many gaining back lost ground" then that story is not being told very well: they're seeing through it. But it would be a good story: hearing Xerxes using the area-specific alerts as a mass respawn triggers, is like a mini event that makes you feel hunted; getting glimpses of how the "ecology" works would also make it clear that the more you kill, the more respawns you get (resurrection cocoons of the many, that you can actually stop a la invasion of the body snatchers? respawns appears as corpses, who raise as you look at them?).

I.e. Deck 4 has it that every destroyed turret, makes an enemy respawn point activate. That's an awesome mechanic which makes it a good place to stealth through, but it's mentioned nowhere. You can only realize it afterwards, or by using the editor, you can't appreciate the "mission" and again you see through the system ("I killed everyone and now there's a string of respawns, what the hell"). But what if destroyed one and Xerxes said "unit 123 compromised, send reinforcements".

[67403ffe667d6Kolya]

Agreed, this part of the story could have been told better. You do get quite a few messages that make it clear that the Many are aware of your presence ("Intruder entering medical sector...."). But they're not as connected to enemy rushes as you would expect. (read: there is none.)
This may be due to time constraints but also simply because this part was never developed that far. We know from the SS2 post mortem that the camera->spawn mechanic was entered quite late in the development phase. At this point the audiologs and messages had probably been written, possibly even recorded. There's exactly 1 message that mentions the cameras at all. Surely those cameras must have been a problem to the crew as well? But there's no audiolog about them. Zero.

The generally accepted retro-explanation how respawns even happen nowadaays is that the Many teleport them in via psi powers. This is of course a very unsatisfying explanation, because why not spawn in an army then? The truth is that the game simply lacks a good in-universe explanation for respawns. For all its importance as a gameplay mechanic this a woefully underdeveloped part of the game. 

But SCP is not the mod to ever touch stuff like that. So it's left up to others to make something out of this.
Tuning the spawn rate up or down is just doctoring the symptoms of the underlying problem that you cannot play with the spawn rate in the game, because the system is not integrated very well.

[67403ffe6692eDizzy]

The idea of turning re-spawning off makes me want to puke. It is something that gives the game character. They are taking over each deck one-by-one. Lets keep it as is!     

[67403ffe66eb1Marvin]

The generally accepted retro-explanation how respawns even happen nowadaays is that the Many teleport them in via psi powers. This is of course a very unsatisfying explanation, because why not spawn in an army then? The truth is that the game simply lacks a good in-universe explanation for respawns. For all its importance as a gameplay mechanic this a woefully underdeveloped part of the game. 

Wait, what? Since when is that accepted? How about "Monsters constantly roam throughout the ship"?

[67403ffe66fdbKolya]

Yeah, of course in most cases that works. I should have been more specific. The discussion about repawns often focusses on spawns that happen in small exit-less areas that you have just visited. These are seen as especially annoying. And that's where that explanation comes from. It's somewhat supported by the fact that there's a little swirl when it happens, which is also used for other psi skills.

[67403ffe670e1Marvin]

Or the programmers just reused the spawn effect from the training simulation as they couldn't be arsed to implement properly spawning enemies. I mean, what's next, finding an in-universe explanation for clipping level geometry?

[67403ffe67239voodoo47]

the thing is, the players should never witness spawns (see official patch notes), but unfortunately, sometimes they still do. no known fix at this moment.

[67403ffe67325Kolya]

Literature might call them clipping geometry artefacts, I call them pockets of proto reality! 

[67403ffe676c0ZylonBane]

no known fix at this moment.

Not necessarily. There are some spawn flags you can set on monster generators that I don't entirely understand the function of yet, but that seem to control this sort of thing. I'm guessing some of these properties were added in the official patch:

Monsters now only spawn when you're not looking their way.

So it's likely they were applied rather hastily, inconsistently, and without much testing.

[67403ffe67a9cJoin2]

Or the programmers just reused the spawn effect from the training simulation as they couldn't be arsed to implement properly spawning enemies. I mean, what's next, finding an in-universe explanation for clipping level geometry?

Probably more a case of financial limitations, or time, than not being arsed. I see clever recycling like this in Deus Ex too, for example gibs are rock fragments coloured red. Or perhaps it was intended the player was to never witness a spawn (I don't know that above readme snippet's origin, but it looks to be so) so regardless it didn't matter the spawn effect used and an in-game explanation need not be attempted, because as you said we can assume they were already roaming the ship, or perhaps even got up off the floor again.
 
...Oh, now I want a mod that makes 1 in 8 hybrids rise again unless obliterated by 'nade launcher or fusion cannon, that would be interesting
Judging by other modder's work here it's not possible, as as far as I am aware adding animations is not possible (can't think of a mod that does). 

Edit: Hmm ZB's mod edits texture anims, but that's a different process, though don't take my word for it as I don't know enough about that field.

Edit again: Clarity.

[67403ffe67b9bKolya]

It's possible to edit animations and for a "dead rising" animation you could simply revert the death ani.

[67403ffe67c6dvoodoo47]

that wouldn't look too good, I'd imagine.

[67403ffe67d84Kolya]

I don't know. In my mind it gives the process of a corpse coming back exactly the repugnantly un-natural motions it needs.
In any case, it's a very simple solution to a problem that's otherwise almost impossible to solve.

[67403ffe67ea8Drone-Dragon]

Me likey lots of enemies to kill, avoid, block in a corridor with a mind wall(not that the ability was ever really useful, lol). ^_^

Seriously, don't reduce the spawn rates, if anything up them a bit in some places, and much more in others...I mentioned that one Ops area/section with the recharge station and the leaking green gas...I don't think things spawn on that map ...like, at all.

[67403ffe67f82ZylonBane]

You are a crazy person.

[67403ffe68185Drone-Dragon]

You are a crazy person.

Who are you talking too, two, to?

[67403ffe682b0ZylonBane]

Another sneak peak. Rocket turrets: old, new.

[67403ffe6851eunn_atropos]

Oh yeah, that looks awesome!