Curious how the SCP is coming along!

[6742a2a62f822Dizzy]

See my post at 21:08:34 where I quote ZB from a year ago. It seemed pretty explicit to me. No rebalancing.

Alright, so you want something that probably isn't going to happen. I think it is best for you to wait for the beta to come out.

     

[6742a2a62fb10voodoo47]

and that's why I'm saying, you misunderstood that statement. right under that post is my post which states the goal in its entirety, and a couple of posts below is explicitly stated that weapon damage output is within scope. so no change here, really.

anyway, the next version of ss2tool will have an extra load of dml fixes, basically a watered down version of SCP which fixes only the most broken things. you might want to try that, if the fully flavored package is too much for you.

[6742a2a62fc6eJoin2]

The "see how much we can argue in one thread" thread continues 

[6742a2a62ff37Dizzy]

The "see how much we can argue in one thread" thread continues 

haha   so true so true.......           

[6742a2a630046voodoo47]

not really. this was a misunderstanding, mostly, and I believe it has been cleared up. anyone who is unsure what SCP is all about can refer to my first post in this topic. beta1 is coming, user feedback will be collected once it's out, and then we'll see which way things are going to flow.

[6742a2a63019aZylonBane]

SCP changes the Tank OS upgrade bonus from 5 HP to 10 HP. So it's only mostly useless now instead of completely and utterly useless.

LET THE FREAKOUT COMMENCE.

[6742a2a630277Join2]

Good rebalancing attempt. Now the rest please 

[6742a2a630500The Watcher]

LET THE FREAKOUT COMMENCE.

[6742a2a6309bfvoodoo47]

let me just post here what I would do with the OS upgrade, should I knew how and would I be allowed to;

I've already mentioned it somewhere, but I think the OS upgrades could use a serious overhaul, though if I remember correctly I've also received an answer explaining that they are almost impossible to modify. anyway, the ideas I've had/have;

power psi - instead of just not burning out, the discipline would always get released at full power.
strong metabolism - the player will also be able to process toxins, so they would eventually fade away like the radiation does.
tank - either an extra 10 hp, or even better (as we are talking about being a tank), +10% extra armor.
naturally able - no idea what to do with this useless thing. maybe make all cyb unit upgrades 10% cheaper (rounded down)?
pharmo friendly - maybe a tiny boost, so it would add 5 more psi points instead of 4.
pack rat - absolutely no idea how to make this one less useless. maybe instead of unblocking three slots in the inventory by magic, maybe give the player an extra strength point that would not be added to the regular stats, sort of a permanent built in strength boost implant.
replicator expert - maybe also give a bonus when hacking the replicators (expert tech style).
tinker - maybe also give a bonus when modifying/repairing weapons (expert tech style).
spatially aware - ok, lets leave one shitty upgrade in just for good measure.

the idea behind this is to not have good and bad OS upgrades, but to have OS upgrades that fit a certain playstyle more or less. you shouldn't be able to say "this one is superior, always take it", only "if you play this type of character, take it".

[6742a2a630cc6Yankee Clipper]

SCP changes the Tank OS upgrade bonus from 5 HP to 10 HP. So it's only mostly useless now instead of completely and utterly useless.

LET THE FREAKOUT COMMENCE.

Tank is useless on the lower difficulties, but it isn't bad on impossible. As you have probably noticed, with impossible you only get 3 hit points for each extra endurance, so the extra 5 with tank isn't too bad. Of course, that's taking into account how utterly lame most of the other options are.

I WILL remain calm. I WILL remain calm. I WILL remain calm.

That helped; freakout postponed.

[6742a2a63113aYankee Clipper]

let me just post here what I would do with the OS upgrade, should I knew how and would I be allowed to;

spatially aware - ok, lets leave one shitty upgrade in just for good measure.

Maybe an Energy Efficiency upgrade instead, where the effect is to make you use energy more efficiently: implants and armor drain slower, maybe the energy weapons use slightly less power to do the same damage.

One of the big limitations with spatially aware is how shitty the maps are to start out with, so the upgrade doesn't have a lot to work with. I still wouldn't want it even with better maps, but the shitty maps just compound it.

[6742a2a631450ZylonBane]

shitty maps

OMG, so shitty. Gawd, all it does is show my current location and facing, exactly where all the walls, doors, and important areas are, and any nav markers I've dropped, with annotations. LOL.

[6742a2a631596Yankee Clipper]

Unless you are in one of the many parts of the game where there is no map. Plus, even where there are maps, while some areas and rooms have hover labels, some of the hover labels are either mislabeled or nonexistent. Yeah, shitty maps.

Almost forgot: low resolution on top of it.

[6742a2a6319a0Join2]

let me just post here what I would do with the OS upgrade, should I knew how and would I be allowed to;

Some solid ideas in there, especially Power Psi and Strong Metabolism, that would certainly make them worthy choices to match up to the best (such as the running speed one of course).
Rebalanced OS upgrades would be awesome. Is it just tank for now?

[6742a2a631e58unn_atropos]

Almost forgot: low resolution on top of it.

blueprints

[6742a2a632151ZylonBane]

Unless you are in one of the many parts of the game where there is no map. Plus, even where there are maps, while some areas and rooms have hover labels, some of the hover labels are either mislabeled or nonexistent. Yeah, shitty maps.

Almost forgot: low resolution on top of it.

So what you're saying is that in spite of the maps being cleanly draw, informative, and easy to read, they are actually shit, because the endgame levels don't have them (even though for the final two levels it would make no damn sense to have them), the hover text functionality (which most people don't even use) could be better, and they're drawn at the same resolution as the rest of the interface.

It's like you're trying to get your opinions ignored.

[6742a2a632436voodoo47]

Rebalanced OS upgrades would be awesome. Is it just tank for now?

overhauled is the term I like to use. yeah, just tank for now, it's not trivial to mess with OS upgrades.

and yeah, proper Rick maps should definitely be added - as soon as someone creates them. the "we did not have enough time, so here is a length-wise cut through the ship lol" pseudo-map just isn't cutting it.

[6742a2a6328faYankee Clipper]

So what you're saying is that in spite of the maps being cleanly draw, informative, and easy to read, they are actually shit, because the endgame levels don't have them (even though for the final two levels it would make no damn sense to have them), the hover text functionality (which most people don't even use) could be better, and they're drawn at the same resolution as the rest of the interface.

It's like you're trying to get your opinions ignored.

Why would it make no sense for there to be maps in the final 2 levels? True, the style of a map for BOTM would be different than for the VB, but that doesn't mean they make no sense. They make just as much sense there as anywhere else. Same goes for the SS1 part of the final level. It would be a pretty skimpy map since there isn't too much to the level, but the logic of the utility of a map doesn't change.

Perhaps people wouldn't be so inclined to ignore the hover text if it was done better.

The res is low enough that the symbols from the key are often illegible. It is a valid criticism. I don't know why that criticism would offend you.

Why are you so bothered that in my commenting about voodoo47's criticism of the "shitty" upgrade spatially aware, I agreed and also speculated that part of the reason was that the maps themselves were shitty? Is that really such an extreme opinion for one to hold? Just how personally invested are you in the notion that the maps in SS2 are the very opposite of "shitty"?

You want to ignore me? Feel free. I'll live.

[6742a2a632a32voodoo47]

the upgrade itself is nearly useless, as having the map fully revealed will do almost nothing - you will visit and reveal 90+% of it anyway. to make it interesting, it would also have to register locations of all usable objects or something like that.

[6742a2a632d51Yankee Clipper]

the upgrade itself is nearly useless, as having the map fully revealed will do almost nothing - you will visit and reveal 90+% of it anyway. to make it interesting, it would also have to register locations of all usable objects or something like that.

That's also true. In order to progress though SS2, you have to go through most of the territory anyway. No secret levels or even secret rooms. But, especially for a newbie desperately trying to find that recharger or replicator, all the while getting jammed by respawns, a well-done map might be a useful OS upgrade. People who have played the game many times over will always be more likely to choose something that makes their character stronger, but I recall choosing the automap on my first playthrough and how disappointed I was at what I got.

[6742a2a633428ZylonBane]

Why would it make no sense for there to be maps in the final 2 levels?

Because where would that information come from? The soldier's R-Grade implant is programmed with the layout of the Von Braun because he's stationed on the Von Braun. The Body of the Many? Cyberspace? Not so much.

Why are you so bothered that in my commenting about voodoo47's criticism of the "shitty" upgrade spatially aware, I agreed and also speculated that part of the reason was that the maps themselves were shitty?

Because there's a vast and significant difference between "could be better" and "shit", and you seem incapable of either grasping or articulating that distinction. You express yourself with all the subtlety and nuance of a petulant teenager. Perhaps you weren't aware. Perhaps you so overuse the word "shit" that you've forgotten it means (metaphorically) something of no value whatsoever.

So if you want your opinions to carry any weight when SCP is released, work on expressing them in a less hyperbolic manner.

[6742a2a6337a7voodoo47]

Because where would that information come from? The soldier's R-Grade implant is programmed with the layout of the Von Braun because he's stationed on the Von Braun.

that is actually the question. if it was already there, why would it not be completely revealed from the start? it's quite likely that the software maps the surroundings in real time, adding the new rooms as the player progresses. in that case, it should be capable of mapping Rick as well. botm and shodan not so much, as those areas are completely alien and probably not recognizable.

[6742a2a633ca8ZylonBane]

and yeah, proper Rick maps should definitely be added - as soon as someone creates them. the "we did not have enough time, so here is a length-wise cut through the ship lol" pseudo-map just isn't cutting it.

The only Rickenbacker level where a map would be useful is rick1.mis, but it would be nearly impossible to create one for it. Unlike the Von Braun levels which are almost entirely laid out on a horizontal plane, rick1 is a series of vertically stacked areas (subdecks). So you'd need a dozen or more inset maps, all crammed into a single map image. Jesus, just think about the starting area-- you'd need an inset for the umbilical room, an inset for the cargo room, an inset for the cargo lift room, an inset for that upper area with the window and the second egg, an inset for the air ducts... and on and on and on. It can't be done in any reasonable manner.

that is actually the question. if it was already there, why would it not be completely revealed from the start?

Because you haven't paid for the OS upgrade yet, duh.   Mapping Unit Enterprise Edition Ultra--download your activation code today!

[6742a2a633d9cvoodoo47]

but the OS upgrades are free.