Curious how the SCP is coming along!

[6742877ad72efOlfred]

That's what they want you to think.

[6742877ad7785Yankee Clipper]

Because where would that information come from? The soldier's R-Grade implant is programmed with the layout of the Von Braun because he's stationed on the Von Braun. The Body of the Many? Cyberspace? Not so much.

Automaps are a staple of gaming. They don't require a bullet-proof explanation of how they came to be. They were brought into being by the gods is usually all that is required. Even with that, there is no logic in the fact that a player gets the maps by exploring the VB, but doesn't in the BOTM. For the player that does not take the automap, where does he get the knowledge? By exploring. So, why doesn't his map fill in during the later levels?

Because there's a vast and significant difference between "could be better" and "shit", and you seem incapable of either grasping or articulating that distinction. You express yourself with all the subtlety and nuance of a petulant teenager. Perhaps you weren't aware. Perhaps you so overuse the word "shit" that you've forgotten it means (metaphorically) something of no value whatsoever.

Lot's of speculating going on there because I used the word "shitty". In a comment where the word had already been used. Granted, voodoo47 used the word to describe the upgrade instead of the maps themselves. I guess that makes all the difference.

So if you want your opinions to carry any weight when SCP is released, work on expressing them in a less hyperbolic manner.

Hyperbolic? You ought to look that word up. You seem to be under the impression it means something like disagreeing with you.

[6742877ad7bd8ZylonBane]

Lot's of speculating going on there because I used the word "shitty". In a comment where the word had already been used. Granted, voodoo47 used the word to describe the upgrade instead of the maps themselves. I guess that makes all the difference.

Uh, yes, talking about something different does tend to make a difference. The upgrade he was talking about is shit, IMHO. It's useless. Of no value. Shit. Unlike the automaps themselves, which are quite useful. Are you honestly not comprehending this?

[6742877ad802aJoin2]

there is no logic in the fact that a player gets the maps by exploring the VB, but doesn't in the BOTM. For the player that does not take the automap, where does he get the knowledge? By exploring. So, why doesn't his map fill in during the later levels?

Yes, not to mention that very minor lore/simulation conflicts on the rare occasion should be overlooked for the sake of better gameplay if it has to, but since the automap has little explanation in it's functionality there should be no conflicts anyhow. If an OS upgrade can do all sorts of advanced stuff surely it can auto map an unknown structure. If the rig can map out the VB on the fly, surely it can do the same for Rick & BOTM? Isn't this technology we have right now anyway, even if primitive in comparison?

I wouldn't say the maps are outright shitty (cept Rickenbacker) but most of your complaints have been valid. The VB maps could have been a little better (but they are still pretty damn good), the automap should have mapped rick/botm & the related OS upgrade shouldn't have been so shitty.
Conversely I kinda like that you have no map to rely on later in the game though, but maybe the OS upgrade should have overridden this.

[6742877ad833eYankee Clipper]

Uh, yes, talking about something different does tend to make a difference. The upgrade he was talking about is shit, IMHO. It's useless. Of no value. Shit. Unlike the automaps themselves, which are quite useful. Are you honestly not comprehending this?

Hyperbolic much? I comprehend and disagree. The word shitty is NOT limited to the definition you have put forth. From dictionary.com:

shitty
[shit-ee]
adjective, shittier, shittiest. Slang: Vulgar.
1. inferior or contemptible.
2. inept or insignificant.
3. unfortunate or unpleasant.
4. wretchedly bad; miserable

My usage in this instance comports best with either definition 1 or 4. Words have meaning; you do not get to impose your definition on everyone else.

[6742877ad8657Dizzy]

Hyperbolic much? I comprehend and disagree. The word shitty is NOT limited to the definition you have put forth. From dictionary.com:

My usage in this instance comports best with either definition 1 or 4. Words have meaning; you do not get to impose your definition on everyone else.

Ahh, enjoy your special definition then.


#DefinitionOfDefinition               

[6742877ad88f7Yankee Clipper]

Ahh, enjoy your special definition then.


#DefinitionOfDefinition               

I didn't make it up. I just used the word correctly. Nothing special about it.

[6742877ad8b4fDizzy]

I didn't make it up. I just used the word correctly. Nothing special about it.

Never said you made it up. You used the word just fine. I just found your comment particularly funny; talking about definitions as if we have never heard of a word with multiple. Enlightening really.   /sarcasm 

[6742877ad8e42Yankee Clipper]

Never said you made it up. You used the word just fine. I just found your comment particularly funny; talking about definitions as if we have never heard of a word with multiple. Enlightening really.   /sarcasm 

If someone is going to make an issue about how I used a word, and what the word really means, then, yes, I'll get out the dictionary and go from there. ZB made the claim that when I said the maps were "shitty", I was really saying that they had absolutely no value at all. That isn't what I said; I don't think that most people would think it was a fair reading of what I said. But, if the definition of "shitty" is going to resolve the meaning of what I said, then fine, let's break out the definition. I didn't think you were only allowed to use that word to describe things that have absolutely no value at all, but instead of saying I think it means this or that or the other thing, I just quoted a dictionary. Seemed simpler at the time.

[6742877ad913bRocketMan]

Jesus Christ!  If you put as much effort into learning ShockEd as you do protecting your ego, we'd have System Shock 3 by now!  Let's just say everyone else is an asshole and you're awesome.  Can we gain closure from that?

[6742877ad93b5Yankee Clipper]

Jesus Christ!  If you put as much effort into learning ShockEd as you do protecting your ego, we'd have System Shock 3 by now!  Let's just say everyone else is an asshole and you're awesome.  Can we gain closure from that?

I don't expect anyone to say anything of the kind. I wouldn't say it myself. It isn't about my ego, either. I stated a simple opinion. I don't expect everyone, or even anyone to agree with my opinions.

I am willing to let the matter drop if others are as well.

[6742877ad9721Dizzy]

If someone is going to make an issue about how I used a word, and what the word really means, then, yes, I'll get out the dictionary and go from there. ZB made the claim that when I said the maps were "shitty", I was really saying that they had absolutely no value at all. That isn't what I said; I don't think that most people would think it was a fair reading of what I said. But, if the definition of "shitty" is going to resolve the meaning of what I said, then fine, let's break out the definition. I didn't think you were only allowed to use that word to describe things that have absolutely no value at all, but instead of saying I think it means this or that or the other thing, I just quoted a dictionary. Seemed simpler at the time.

I just found your comment entertaining. I wasn't really giving a crud about the reasoning behind it. AKA, I wasn't contributing to the thread, I was just making fun of your hilarious comment.

Love you (in the most homosexual sense of the phrase)


On Topic: Give me Beta and I give you guys 3 wishes!      

[6742877ad9854This_is_Xerxes]

Boy, the last couple of pages have some shitty posts

May I remind some people that the spirit of SCP is to provide players with a patch that would be as close to "official" as possible. In that light, it is understood that certain issues - balance wise - will be addressed for the sake of better gameplay. The community should at least be patient until SCP's release and provide constructive criticism after giving it a try.

[6742877ad9a7eJoin2]

Let's just say ZB is an asshole and you're awesome.  Can we gain closure from that?

Fixed.

Sorry, but it was ZB that got Yankee all riled up by more than overreacting to his exaggerated use of the word shitty.

[6742877ad9be6Kolya]

I'm offended that you all posted.

[6742877ad9d8dvoodoo47]

combo breaker.

anyway, while the software probably shouldn't have any problems mapping Rick, it might get confused by meat and warped reality, so botm and shodan not having any maps should be canonically fine. and yeah, I realize that doing proper rick maps would be pita because of the vertical structure of the levels (well, level actually - rick2 and 3 are tiny, and making proper maps should not be that big of a deal).

[6742877ad9eb5Olfred]

Create a trap which changes which map will get loaded whenever you transition from one level to another.

It's probably not even possible, but I'll just throw this in so someone who doesn't know shit about editing SS2 can alway go on and claim it is possible because someone somewhere said it is.

[6742877ada028Zygo]

Nah, you can do that, you 'just' have to change the destinations for the level transitions markers to an alternative level name. What use it would actually have though...

The map system is a throw back to the original concept of map booths, and makes sense in that context but not really in the game as delivered where a SS1 style system quasi LIDAR system would make far more sense. The mapper booths would have had their own fairly obvious problems, sense wise, but would be consistent with the behaviour the map actually exhibits. It's clearly downloading map chunks on the fly which is why whole sections pop in and you have templates/ labels that a scan system could not generate, and why you cannot get info on the Rickenbacker.

Actually applying the map system from DromEd/ the level architecture is pretty horrible as well. But the only really big problem with the maps themselves, albeit considering they are 1999 vintage, is the (locked) low resolution/ limited area designed for a 640x480 UI.

[6742877ada111Olfred]

Wasn't there something in NewDark which let's you modify the UI?
I'm not talking about these scaling settings in your config.

[6742877ada1f6Zygo]

Oh yeah, it can be done via custom script modules in new dark. Something I have zero ability to do but you're right, it is now possible so the res isn't technically locked any more.

[6742877ada2e0Olfred]

Just for being curious, not especially bound to this problem.
Is there some resource or introduction to the whole scripting for dark available somewhere?

[6742877ada3e7Kolya]

There's Nameless' Introduction to Scripts of course. The New Dark Docs may also contain information and of course similar Thief projects are worth looking at.

[6742877ada580The Watcher]

If you want actual code to look at, Telliamed's stuff is on github (the repositories of interest being lg, scriptlib, and publicscripts).

There's also my TWScript package, that approaches some things differently than Telliamed does. The code for the scripts you'd actually use in a level are inside the 'twscript' subdirectory, 'base' contains the base classes TWBaseScript, TWBaseTrap, and TWBaseTrigger and some support classes that provide features similar to NVScript, pubscript contains the remnants of the PublicScripts package I haven't replaced yet. Docs used to contain script documentation, but I've been moving that to my wiki. If you look at that stuff an have any questions, PM me and I'll try to help.

[6742877ada658Olfred]

Thanks. I will have to take a look at it once I get some time on my hands.