"max refs" what is this?

[674381004efdfStaticZ]

Hey, I'm worked on level by part on part, but now when I try to portalize all level I gain such error:

ERROR: ran out of object refs, increase "max_refs 10240"!

When I make portilize part of level all is fine, but when I try to portilized all level I gain such error. I have less then 2000 brushes and around 1000 objects, i found value

max_refs 10240

in "shock.cfg".
1) Is it safe to increase this limit?
2) What range is for this value?
3) What is "refs", why I have so much "refs" when I too far from limitations for objects and brushes even for original version (I use v 2.42)?
4) What I need to do to decrese "refs" on my map?

[674381004f129Zygo]

Hmm. My max_refs line is 22400. I'd guess it's fine to alter, since I've had no problems with it and did update Arena as well, and a quick look at TTLG suggests people are using modified values for it.

So far as I am aware the refs refer to everything that needs referencing- all brushes including rooms/ lights etc. Those numbers for brushes and objects seem rather low to hit it though.

[674381004f28aStaticZ]

Thanks for reply, I also solved this problem by increasing this value, but I don't find any info about them this in descriptions of 2.42 patch. Simply I don't understand what is "refs", and what is up limit for them, and as i made only half of my first level I become worry that I can reach some limits and level will be unstable... I also still can't understand what is portals and cells exectly, all I know that they ammount depends on brushes crosses, but I can't understand this logic.... As for refs it's not just only objects and brushes as I had less than 10k, I think it something related to cells or maybe "color's map"....

[674381004f3faZygo]

I know very little about the technicals of the dark engine- it's similar to how I can use something like Word without understanding how the file formats work or without knowing whatever C variant it was programmed with. There's a basic explanation of portals and cells at TTLG which may help, and the linked article is... rather more detailed.

Generally, if the Thief editors say something can be safely altered like max_refs then it is perfectly safe to do so, traditionally their levels have been a lot bigger and more detailed than ours and so far as I am aware the new dark versions of T2/SS2 have the same limitations listed in modders_notes.

[674381004f4dfStaticZ]

Thanks again, thow it doesn't give answers to all quations it's really good short explanation to begin understand how it works...

[674381004f606StaticZ]

Maybe I'm wrong, but now I suggesting that portilizing build list of visiible cels for each "portal" and they total number is called "max_refs", so number of refs in this case depends on brushes density in level geometry - i.e. more detail levels have more cells in screen, so each portals have much more "refs" to cells.... But this is my just suggestion...

Anyway it's look like true, in some rooms I have up to 4000 portals on screen