SS2 list of broken and lowpoly objects that need fixing

[6736f12cbb145voodoo47]

Olfred, any chance you could flip the attached model 180 degrees around its Y/pitch axis (hope I have this right, basically it's upside down so it needs to be flipped, but the back side should remain in its current orientation) real quick? no need for any other edits for now, just the flip, want to try something out.
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[6736f12cbb41fOlfred]

Sorry it took so long, real life job taking a big toll on me right now.
One is flipped, the other one rotated.
From your description it sounded more like rotated is what you wanted.
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[6736f12cbb531voodoo47]

no problem, not doing anything important. anyway, they don't seem do anything? maybe they got rotated to the original position.

[6736f12cbb630Olfred]

Hmm... maybe it would be easier to draw a picture.
Hold on a second *rambling*

This is how it looks like to me when I open it.
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[6736f12cbb72fvoodoo47]

that white side needs be at the bottom, while the wider part needs to stay as its "back". so if the narrower part is the front, rotating is 180 degrees clockwise would do.
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[6736f12cbb83dOlfred]

Ah, an unbeknownst error on my side.
I didn't save the model to a file beforehand and just made the edit and exported again. Seems like the exporter sources from the save file.
This one should be the correct one.

[6736f12cbb99bvoodoo47]

yep, that does the trick - thanks. the vanilla model is emitting light from its bottom while the bulb is on top, and it seems like there is no way of rigging a spotlight to emit light from the top, so flipping the model was the logical solution. was not sure about maybe spotlight being connected to some sort of light vhot on the model, but no, it's really just set to emit from the bottom part of a model, whatever that part is.

[6736f12cbbaaeOlfred]

Oh, so it's from the game? Then you wouldn't need to post the model.
It's only thief that I haven't gotten around to set up properly.
The white part you saw on the model is set to emit light. Just as the glowing buttons on all the crates.
Or is there something additional ingame?

[6736f12cbbb80voodoo47]

it's an ingame thing, no need to worry.

[6736f12cbbccbZylonBane]

Olfred, I was wondering, is it much effort to subdivide flat surfaces of a model? Like, is there an automatic function for it, or do you have to do it manually?

[6736f12cbbdc5Olfred]

Depends on what you want to achieve. There are commands to do it.
Just give me an example, preferable with a screenshot and where you want the new edges to be. Then I'll take a look how fast it is to edit it.

[6736f12cbbf05ZylonBane]

I'm curious how it would look to do a dense subdivision (really dense, like almost texel-sized) of SS2's common bulkhead door model (don't have the BIN name on hand right now). I know we already tried this on the BotM tooth model, but I'm hoping maybe the same approach would work better for the bulkhead door since it's smaller. But I wouldn't want you to waste time on something that might end up looking terrible.

Something else that might be interesting would be to model the beveled surface detail of the bulkhead door. There's a lot of "fake" 3D detail in its texture.

[6736f12cbc02aOlfred]

Well, when it's simply subdividing a model, that is no problem at all, just adding one modifier does the trick.

Adding some 3D details is possible as well, but that would require some manual labour for it to look right.
But then I would much rather prefer to create something like a HD mod with updates object models. But for that I would need someone to create textures and my skill is rather lacking in that regard.

[6736f12cbc370ZylonBane]

Well, when it's simply subdividing a model, that is no problem at all, just adding one modifier does the trick.

Cool. I've attached the door model and texture. I figure if we go nuts with the subdivision density, we could get something that almost looks like a dynamic lightmap. For science!

But then I would much rather prefer to create something like a HD mod with updates object models. But for that I would need someone to create textures and my skill is rather lacking in that regard.

That's SHTUP isn't it? It already includes higher-res textures for most of the doors, though of course we can go even higher now with NewDark.
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[6736f12cbc587beauapropos]

There is a texture mapping issue on mainbot:
https://image.ibb.co/cBVUU8/texturemapping_manbot.jpg

For comparison and reference, mpbot:
https://image.ibb.co/hoySGo/texturemapping_mpbot.jpg

EDIT: fixed typo

[6736f12cbc686ZylonBane]

I've noticed that before, but I'm not sure if it's easily fixable. IIRC AI models are more complicated to tweak than object models.

[6736f12cbc770voodoo47]

yeah, the limit planes need to be re-rigged each time the model is edited, iirc, so AI models are better off left alone unless absolutely necessary.

[6736f12cbcaf8Olfred]

That's SHTUP isn't it? It already includes higher-res textures for most of the doors, though of course we can go even higher now with NewDark.

I'm not talking about textures only. I'm talkling about completely new models with tailored textures to them. Something like a reimagined/rehauled models. Kind of like rebirth. (Just more true to the original). Or like the tacticool weapons.
I know that SHTUP also updates some models. But the main part is the updated textures.

I've created three different doors on which I only edited one face. They each have subdivision surface levels of 3, 4 & 5 times. With 6 times I already hit the maximum polygon count, so 5 times is the maximum you can get.
If this truly would work out. I would suggest to use it sparingly on speficic parts of a model that should receive some extra eye candy. It would cost you some manual labour, but this way you could also crank up the polygon count much higher.

[6736f12cbcd1bZylonBane]

Excellent! Here are some videos of the models in action. One of the doors I set up to open/close much more slowly, and placed a point light very close to the surface, much closer than would be seen in normal gameplay.

Vanilla door
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhhbvXQg-LM

DOOR_S1_3.BIN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MimYzp8BOnU

DOOR_S1_4.BIN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGe6xdcYnS8

DOOR_S1_5.BIN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciARntlPhEk

Vanilla door, terrible at picking up near lighting. Subdiv 3, decent proof of concept for subdivision, but way too much vertex crawl in motion. Subdiv 4, you can see the vertex crawl if you really look for it, but I'd consider it acceptable for use. Subdiv 5, nearly flawless, but yeah the poly count is crazy high for a Dark Engine object.

What does everyone think? Subdiv level 4 good enough?

[6736f12cbce7eOlfred]

Well, it definetly looks better than vanilla.
Keep in mind that 5 subdivs wouldn't work on both sides as that would be too much polygons.
I think the limit is a tad bit over 4000, nemyax mentioned it once, I forgot the explicit number.

I could also manually slice a model up with only a little more effort. With that method I could go close to the maximum polycount. Or go for a number of segments which lies between two subsurface modifier values (like going 4,5).
(Here is a little example of what I'm talking about.)

[6736f12cbcf6dZylonBane]

Since we're agreed this is a visual improvement... use your best judgment to subdivide the model on all sides then, I guess?

[6736f12cbd066Olfred]

28 cuts along the width and the height. That's what I could do.
I didn't cut the sides of the door to save on polygons.

[6736f12cbd165ZylonBane]

Looks great!

[6736f12cbd2e1ZylonBane]

So, these poor fucked-up bastards:

These are ops2 and ops3 in the hierarchy, models opscon2 and opscon3, texture opsvac. All I can guess that happened here is that the texture was changed after the model was made. I'm not sure it's even possible to fix the texturing on these short of creating new textures. Either way, this is so obviously messed up I'd consider these models officially broken.

EDIT: Aha, looks like these two models are basically the MedSci diagno and diagno2 models with the textures swapped. Hmm. Maybe a new texture really is the only practical fix.