SS2 list of broken and lowpoly objects that need fixing

[6736e25287451Olfred]

I tried my luck with the fsn_h.bin
It doesn't need any rigging or stuff and is just like any other obj, so no problem getting it into the game.... was what I thought -.-

When I use my usual converting tool "3ds to bin" which comes with the Toolkit available here. There is always this crack, even though in the model it isn't. (fsn_h 3dsbin.bin)
Then I tried to use the bin exporter from blenderbitsandbobs. With this I don't get the crack, but the exporter doesn't have a good support for illumination. (fsn_h.bin)

Also mattweak won't let me work the materials over since it only wants to work on AI meshes ~.~

Someone knows any other tools to work on materials afterwards?

There is also some bug with some small holes on the metallic barrel right above the wires. This comes through some faulty(?) transperency in the texure. Since I don't know how to work on pcx files, just converting it to png works (included in zip). This also affects the fsn_w.bin.

[fsn_h_stupid.zip expired]

[6736e252876b4voodoo47]

yeah, the illumination is a problem, unfortunately, no idea what to do.


anyway;

• tu_sdam.bin - Slug Turret Corpse (-380) [broken parts of the turret not connected to the base of the turret]
• tu_ldam.bin - Laser Turret Corpse (-1419) [broken parts of the turret not connected to the base of the turret]
• tu_fdam.bin - Blast Turret Corpse (-1421) [broken parts of the turret not connected to the base of the turret]
[dead_turrets.jpg expired]

[6736e2528784aOlfred]

Instead of helping me you are just shoving more work on me
just kidding

There are still some things which irritates me on the turrets. Like the barrel texture not being centered or the mirrored text on one side.
But there is no good way to fix it without making new textures.

I remember there was some (functioning) turret which had a mirrored sign on it. If you come across it, I might try to fix it. Don't know if it counts as object or mesh since it does the pew pew with moving and stuff.

[6736e2528798avoodoo47]

yeah, if you mean the regular turrets, they had some issues with textures being mapped improperly, but I don't really remember anymore. the model names are tu_s, tu_f and tu_l, if you want to have a look.

adding the destroyed turrets to the list of fixed models.

[6736e25287a89Olfred]

Ah, I've just taken a look at it, actually the UV is wrong and they fixed it through the texture.
Fixing this would probably break more than it fixes.

Maybe creating high res turrets is something to do after the cutlery.

[6736e25287b76voodoo47]

ZylonBane would be able to answer whether the UV fix on the turrets is desirable or not.

[6736e25287efeZygo]

Someone knows any other tools to work on materials afterwards?

Presumably you could use 'actual' material files (mtls, see the new dark documentation) to force the illumination property where needed? A bit clunky, but may be the only way to go if the models aren't going to play nice.

I was going to suggest using bintoe to revert the working model to e then manually add the illum flags to the textures, but unfortunately that sets the model to use only one texture for some reason, which makes it essentially useless.

[6736e25288034Olfred]

Unfortunately I only know bsp.exe which converts (object) .e files into bin. And that's what 3ds to bin uses to generate the bin files.
If there is some other converter I would happily try it out.

EDIT:
I tried it out. Using bintoe and then converting to bin again using bsp.exe.
Same result, still a crack. Seems to be a bsp.exe problem.

[6736e25288649ZylonBane]

Added railter.bin to the first post for fixing. This is the the railing end piece where the rail ends don't match the railing middle piece model.

There are still some things which irritates me on the turrets. Like the barrel texture not being centered or the mirrored text on one side.
But there is no good way to fix it without making new textures.

It should be possible to fix any mirrored text by just reversing the texture on the model. Is this not an option?

I was going to suggest using bintoe to revert the working model to e then manually add the illum flags to the textures, but unfortunately that sets the model to use only one texture for some reason, which makes it essentially useless.

Which model are you wanting to do this for? I'm pretty sure I've tinkered with models before where I used the same texture for multiple model materials.

ZylonBane would be able to answer whether the UV fix on the turrets is desirable or not.

Exactly what are we talking about here? The only really bad problem I'm aware of with the turret models is that their tops seem to be UV mapped to about 1 pixel of the source texture.

[6736e25288c29Olfred]

It should be possible to fix any mirrored text by just reversing the texture on the model. Is this not an option?

Not really because the burned areas on the damaged turrets don't line up nicely anymore. I tinkered a bit around and didn't get any satisfying result.

Exactly what are we talking about here? The only really bad problem I'm aware of with the turret models is that their tops seem to be UV mapped to about 1 pixel of the source texture.

On the turrets, like tu_s, tu_f and tu_l on one side there is this "SECURITY STATION" but written mirrored since they mirrored the UV.
I only remembered there was something about that, but didn't really remembered if it was something which needs fixing or not.

The 1 pixel thing is on alot of models.
As for the turrets the colour of the top was supposed to be the same colour as the sides. But since it's mapped right on the edge of the texture the dark bottom bleeds into it and therefore you get the dark top.

I wouldn't mind if you also list some UV mapping errors, some of them are really easy to fix and just take a couple of minutes.

[6736e25288f75Zygo]

Which model are you wanting to do this for? I'm pretty sure I've tinkered with models before where I used the same texture for multiple model materials.

It was for the fusion cannon model which did not have the 'crack' in it. The idea was to revert it to e to change the illuminations, then reconvert it to bin which would hopefully give a 'crackless' model which was also lit properly. It didn't work.

[6736e25289110Olfred]

As for the Fusion Cannon, I tried various things again, even redoing the top thing, but it really is a problem with the bsp.exe which produces this crack. So for now just take the fsn_h 3dsbin.bin which I included in a previous post. It at least adresses the other stuff so the crack is the only thing left.

Along with the railter.bin I've updated all the other ones I could find. Included in the zip attached here are:
railing2.bin
railter.bin
railing.bin
railterm.bin
railingb.bin
railingb_v2.bin

railingb.bin has an origin which should make it easier to correctly align it with the other parts. But this origin is different from the original version. Using this would need a retouching of the maps.
So I've included a railingb_v2.bin which has an (close to) identical origin of the original file.
It's up to you which one to take.

If I missed any railing model just tell me and I will update that, too.

EDIT:
whops, forgot the files.

[6736e25289445ZylonBane]

Not really because the burned areas on the damaged turrets don't line up nicely anymore.

Then the question is-- What looks worse, backwards text or incorrect tiling? Personally, I think backwards text looks worse, and incorrect tiling can be fixed with an updated texture.

[6736e2528957cOlfred]

Well, the texture which is backwards also has the error that it doesn't even match the texture of the turrets when they are working.
If you feel like making proper textures I can edit the damaged turrets again.

Also the texture is totally stretched, if you really do edit them I can provide you with a proper UV map so it doesn't get stretched.

But I am really thinking about making a complete new set of turrets.

[6736e2528979fZylonBane]

Making new turrets would be even better, but a lot of work because of all the animated joints. Might be the sort of thing better suited to inclusion in SHTUP, since it would be a significant graphical enhancement.


BTW, the fixed railings look fantastic! Now that you've worked with them, I have a question. As you've noticed, the plain railing models (not the ones with glass inserts) are really, obviously low-poly. Do you think it would be much work to recreate them with more rounded-looking parts?

Also, because the Dark Engine uses per-polygon lighting, objects like these light better with regular polygon breaks, instead of for example a long railing top using a single set of polygons that go all the way from one end to the other. If you placed a light source near the center of an object like that, it would light up the entire thing instead of just the center.

Anyway, if you'd like to look at them, here's the complete set of simple railing models (including ones you've already updated):

railing2.bin - Railing 4x8 (-1016)
railing.bin - Railing (-1015) [seems identical to railing2.bin, but scaled up]
railingb.bin - Broken Railing (-1075) [bent version of railing.bin]
railter.bin - Railing End 4x4 (-1023)
railterm.bin - Railing Terminator (-602) [seems identical to railter.bin, but scaled up]
brail12.bin - Railing 4x12 (-1720)
brail16.bin - Railing 4x16 (-1721)
brail32.bin - Railing 4x32 (-1718)
brail48.bin - Railing 4x48 (-1719)

[6736e25289918Olfred]

Well when working on new turrets I would open the old model and update the parts necessary.
IMHO the outer casing is already good enough and shouldn't be mady any "rounder". The inside and the UV/texture needs an update.

About the railings. Well my current aim is to fix the original models and only change geometry if really necessary. Updating all railings to make them look rounder and improve lightning would require like a complete remake of the models (yeah a quick subdividing might work too, but wouldn't create nice models for ingame use). And before updating the railings with complete new models we should kind of discuss it out what is wanted and what is possible and how it should all be realised.

Will work the brail* railings over, too and edit this posting later on.

EDIT:
Added the brails.
(Untested)

[6736e25289ab6Olfred]

Doing a new post in case someone wants to fork this and maybe create a different thread about upgrading models.

I worked on a new turret model and here is a little preview.
It is a simple screenshot out of Blender, no smoothing or proper rendering.
The cylindrical thing around the barrel and the thing covering half the gun is supposed to be textured with a texture which has transparent holes in it.
The only thing missing on the model is some kind of mount which connects the gun with the bar in the middle. Didn't came up with an good idea yet.
Apart from that it is pretty much done (modeling wise).

Feel free to comment on it.

[6736e25289c58Kolya]

There are embossed and engraved parts that I think aren't pronounced enough to require modelling, eg on the ammo feed and the small thing where the cable connects. Those should probably be done in the texture instead.
The gun will move around the shaft. Maybe you could hint at a mechanism that does that, like a cog that connects with the shaft.

[6736e25289eacOlfred]

Well, since there is no bump or normal mapping possible in SS2 I've modeled some parts which usually you won't do. Have to check how it comes out ingame and decide on whether or not I keep it.

I also was thinking about some movement mechanism. But that would be in the bottom part or maybe the top (the top is empty, the bottom is almost completely filled up with the gun).
I even started on doing something, but I don't think it will be all that visible ingame so I thought about to only add something to the blasted turret model.

I am as good as finished with the model (except proper uv mapping) and would like to have a good look at it ingame and also do some testing. Is it possible to have the turret just shoot at something or into blank space and not attack that player? If so, can anyone provide me with a testmap, please?
On something different. I thought about the higher poly rails and made a basic setup for the brails. (brail_base.blend)
I setup a file where it is possible to create any length with just a couple of clicks.
A few screens can be seen here. (the blue lines are sharp edges)
So about the lighting ingame. Should I make more cuts on the longer poles, is it good like this, or should I increase the overall polycount?

A different point is also the texture. IMHO it's not so good that the UV map is made so you basically stretch the whole texture along the length. So what about creating a uv map which places the texture on the bar from the side. It could be completely unfolded, or have the sides mirrored, even quartered would be possible. Horizontal and vertical bars seperated or just both of them using the same?

I'm free to test out different things.

For a first test I created a brail12.bin (inlcluded in the zip)

[brail12_new.zip expired]

[6736e2528a03bSystem]

Image: http://www.kachalka.com/images/zd71ta5uekct1cx2v6.png

Image: http://www.kachalka.com/images/0jckbjdgefqrpez6o54.png

[6736e2528a173voodoo47]

gentlemen, we have a real breakthrough here - System has actually uploaded a screenshot larger than 640*480. now we only need to teach him to use jpg instead of png. //sarcasm off

those are not model issues, but map/gamesys issues. will be fixed (as much as possible) in SCP.


//checked the last batch of fixed models, made a dml, and fixed model pack v02 is live.

[6736e2528a262Olfred]

ah dml? for what?

Also, did you check what I said about the fsn_h.bin?

[6736e2528a34cvoodoo47]

did not include fsn_h.bin for now. as for the dml, the bottles need to be set as transparent for everything to work properly.

[6736e2528a4b8Olfred]

Ah I see
I thought just setting the transparency for the model is enough.
But it's probably also the see through visiblity thing I already saw with the railings.

As for the fsn_h.bin, currently it's the best we can get currently. Already wrote a message to nemyax if he intends to upgrade his bin exporter to allow different material settings. (But somehow I can't find a proper private message system over at TTLG)