SS2 list of broken and lowpoly objects that need fixing

[673f4e1e70ec6Olfred]

Well, if you want something permanent you have the power to change it, right?
I don't see why a broken model which probably won't ever get downloaded again (except maybe by someone who tries to break his game) should stay on here forever.

[673f4e1e712c4RocketMan]

Yes?
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[673f4e1e714f6voodoo47]

looking good, was playing with this for about 20 minutes and everything appears to be working as it should - finger joint is where it's supposed to be, and headtracking works. the SCP muzzle flash seems to be slightly misplaced sometimes - it looks like the Reb model is twisting its shotty a bit more than the orig model, but this is probably caused by the models being different (kind of the point), and I reckon the amount of work that would have to go into tweaking this would be simply unreasonable, so good to go as far as I can tell.

wouldn't hurt if more people could test though, I tend to miss stuff sometimes.

[673f4e1e716a0RocketMan]

I have to disclose that the planes and vhots were not well respected when making the rebirth models as they simply don't superimpose correctly.  Thus I had to move the Rebirth model into place.  The biggest problem was that the shotgun was at the wrong angle and didn't look like it was pointed at the player when it was being fired.  I fixed that but at the possible cost of aesthetics.  The feet  of ANY model are ALWAYS screwed up for reasons unknown to me.  I would speculate that the animation isn't too great because it always makes AIs hobble around with their feet sunk into the ground most of the time.

As for the muzzle flash... is it the "angle" of the flash that's wrong or it's location in space?  Currently I have the vhot dead nuts center on the end of the barrel so it should look ok.  However I noticed that the firing event makes the shotgun buck pretty hard, so if there's any delay at all spawning the muzzle flash it might spawn where the shotgun muzzle used to be before it bucked?

[673f4e1e717c5RocketMan]

Oh by the way... PinkDot was sort of curious how his converted models turned out and I told him it looked good from what I could see... better than what our tools could churn out.  Should I make a formal request for whatever tool he's using or for him to convert all the rebirth models?  I hate to dump on him if I don't have to but IIRC all the rebirth models are kinda fucked.

[673f4e1e719d5voodoo47]

well, you know what I always say, whatever can/will get the job done.

yeah, as I've already mentioned, all Rebirth models have messed up joints, this will break headtracking, and can cause more problems depending on how their projectiles are set up. the hybrids have the priority, then the midwife and monkeys, with assassin and rumbler coming last.

as for his tools - it'd be nice if he could release them, I mean having better tools available is never a bad thing even if they are beta, also an online mirror can be a lifesaver in case he goes mia or suffers a catastrophic system crash. you would be surprised how many people still forget to back up.

he did mention he's close to a release in the TTLG topic if I remember correctly.


as for the muzzle flash, the angle seems to be the problem, sometimes more, sometimes less - I'd expect the animation to be the culprit, and not much can be done about that, I think. anyway, it's good enough, 99% people will just play the game and not stand in front of the hybrid staring into his shotgun barrel. and it's still much, much better than me jury-rigging the effect to the wrist joint.

[673f4e1e71e94Olfred]

Thus I had to move the Rebirth model into place.

You know that you can also just move the vhots and planes, right? Oo
Or did I misunderstood you now?

If PinkDot is willing to share or do the converts I would be very pleased. Handing out broken models just doesn't feel right to me

And about the "broken" feet.
It really just is the animation. On most of the animations the feet are angled a bit forward... like halfway to standing on your toes.
I blame the devs for having no experience in motion capture and not properly cleaning up their animations.

[673f4e1e720acRocketMan]

I suspect you're right about that.  Regarding the planes and vhots, yes I can move them but the animations basically displace model geometry by angles and coordinates based on the baseline configuration of planes and vhots defined when the model is compiled.  So if the arm is supposed to swing forward by 30 degrees it would be relative to the placement of the model when I made it into a bin, vis-a-vis the limit planes.  So if I move the planes and vhots, to match the model rather than the other way around, the animation will be altered.  I'd rather alter the mesh than the animation because the animation affects the way the game plays whereas the model is just sort of going along for the ride and it wouldn't be so bad to rotate a foot here or an arm there, IMO. 

Actually, I do move the planes and vhots.  It's just that I only move them if it's ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY and only by as much as I need.  If I can move a part of the mesh without distorting the proportions or something like that, I tend to do so.

[673f4e1e721caRocketMan]

Here's pipe again.  Should be (hopefully) better than the first one.  His swing connects properly now.
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[673f4e1e7232aOlfred]

I usually go along the path to make sure the new model lines up with the old one. That way the animations should play properly in regards to the old model. I tend to not move the vhots if possible but I move the planes around to make the model animate as good looking as possible.
The hitscan is based on the vhots and they animate themself without regard to the model. I mean, you should make sure the model looks like it hits, but in reality you could get hit by air.

I really like the idea from PinkDot to enable bone based animation in 3dsmax. If he gets everything right it open ups so many new possibilites which just aren't possible with these fucking limit planes.

[673f4e1e7245fvoodoo47]

ok, so basically the flash looks a bit off because the orig hybrid, when shooting at the player, looks like he is aiming for the player's left leg, while the Reb hybrid looks like he is aiming for the right leg. again, no idea whether this could be fixed by tweaking the model, and whether is it worth to even attempt.

[673f4e1e7259dRocketMan]

What i noticed is that if you leave the rigging alone and change the mesh the hybrid shoots right at your chest.  The messed up aim occurs when you give priority to the mesh because you're effectively breaking the animation's baseline.  This is also why the pipe swing was worse in my first attempt and why you get anomalies like air hitting you.  I agree its bad to change ppls work or make it look different but for such a popular mod I didn't have much of a choice if ii wanted it to function.

[673f4e1e726b8voodoo47]

ok, the shotgun hybrid will need tweaking - the shotgun butt is bent in a bad way, especially apparent after you kill the hybrid. still better than the original where the entire shotgun ended up under the floor, but should be fixed, or at least made less apparent if possible.
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[673f4e1e72821RocketMan]

Shit... I've got a dilemma here because on the one hand, you will notice that the hybrid actually shoots straight now.  That's because I bent his arm and the shotgun itself straighter in the T-Pose so that it would intersect the limit planes properly.  As a consequence it looks like  the death pose looks stupid.  Maybe I can bend the stock a bit, as that part isn't highly visible to the player.  It's one of those trade-off scenarios I'm afraid.  Shoot straight or look good when dead.  I'll see if I can fix it a little though.

[673f4e1e729b0RocketMan]

PinkDot was generous enough to write a batch export script to automate the work he did to give me the shotty and pipe hybrids in 3ds format.  He's batch processed the entire rebirth directory as well as most of the vanilla AI meshes.

Kolya, may I humbly suggest we post a download for the rebirth meshes as a "resource" for future modelling work because his models don't suffer from any of the glitches or anomalies that Olfred and I have been experiencing using the conventional conversion tools, and they also preserve all the vhots.  Planes are still inaccessible for the moment but the fact that the models aren't broken and have all the vhots is reason enough to keep these files somewhere safe IMO.

[673f4e1e72b3aOlfred]

If PinkDot keeps up his work and releases a fully fuctional mesh editing add-on for 3dsmax I probably need to learn that tool as well
But then we have the abilites to edit both model types which is really nice. Looking forward to it.

[673f4e1e72ca5System Shocked]

@ voodoo47

I know you're busy gathering together the SCP Beta 2 release, but I've read during the last few weeks that some new objects requiring work were to be posted here. I've also mentioned some for consideration in my latest batch of feedback reports.

Just a reminder. 

[673f4e1e72dc5voodoo47]

all in due time.

anyway, this is an excellent time to bump the Rebirth models, I believe.

[673f4e1e72f12Olfred]

I'm more of a Blenderhead than 3dsmax. Last time I worked with it is... ouh... 15 years ago?

But a tool like that would certainly be a major step, maybe there will be a deep work relationship between me and RocketMan in the future or I might as well learn 3dsmax.

[673f4e1e73049RocketMan]

All for it Olfred.

I still plan to work on rebirth... just been a little busy lately.  Getting my ass handed to me in the world of employment.  I'll get back to it imminently though.  Voodoo, with the exception of the shotty, which I think you liked, can you prioritize the rest so I can do the important ones when I can? 

[673f4e1e7340fvoodoo47]

the shotgun still needed tweaking if memory serves (bends strangely when the hybrid dies). as for priorities, I'd say

-shotgun hybrid
-grenade hybrid
-pipe hybrid
-midwife
-assassin
-the rest

the hybrids and midwife are most important, as the incorrect joints are either causing direct problems, or would force me to maintain a separate set of fixes for SCP and vanilla, something I'd very much like to avoid.

[673f4e1e73567RocketMan_Remote]

Understood.  I'll do what I can about the gun angle but it will be a compromise.  Either the firing sequence or the death sequence will look messed up if I completely accommodate the other.

[673f4e1e7364avoodoo47]

sounds good.

[673f4e1e74f6dYankee Clipper]

I think the Arcaniac assassins are way better than the Rebirth monstrosities, and also an improvement over vanilla.