SS2 list of broken and lowpoly objects that need fixing

[673fffe6721ceZylonBane]

Yes. They aren't egg-shaped, they're ellipsoids. Or they're TOO perfectly smooth. There's something about them I don't like.

[673fffe6725adRocketMan]

I thought eggs were smooth ellipsoids??

(actually, depending on the species, eggs can look like pretty much anything)

In any case, I made the model for them, Vurt made the textures.  As far as I recall, I directly superimposed the new model on top of the old one, the only difference being the poly count.  They should have exactly the same shape.

[673fffe672938Olfred]

They should have exactly the same shape.

I can confirm this.

[673fffe672a6eZylonBane]

It's probably just the smoothness that's setting me off then. When I think "alien egg", I think of something like this:

The original egg model is low-poly enough that it can be interpreted as kind of lumpy, but the high-poly one is so perfectly smooth it looks more like a giant chicken egg.

[673fffe672b93RocketMan]

The open egg model goes for the alien aesthetic with the "petal" effect and I think I made the egg slump too from having the pressure and contents relieved so the egg is currently of the soft variety but beyond that, I dunno if there's a surface finish set out by Irrational that we need to follow...

If we did implement that, it would have to be done either through modelling (requiring a very large poly count) or through texture trickery, which is beyond anything I can do.

[673fffe672f12unn_atropos]

And the base needs to conform to terrain, because the player has to walk on it. To be blunt... we can't use this.

On the other hand it would be interesting to have additional assets for the game, not for recreating vanilla but for possible new FMs. Providing a kind of custom object library could remove a hurdle for creating new levels and missions.

[673fffe6731d9Kaucukovnik]

My issues with Olfred's brain (this is starting to sound funny):
-rather high polycount for the added detail (not that it really matters)
-just like the original, it doesn't look all that much like THE brain, but just some local neural node. I'd expect the brain to be a bulky sack, instead of a widened part on a column of biomass. The bone base is the only part that's really adequate considering the brain's importance.
Please take no offense, I appreciate your work for the game, and I'll most likely never do nearly as much as you have. I'm not as dry as I usually appear on the internet. We can just casually criticize each other's brain, I can't see any harm in that.

The endgame is obviously rushed, and I'm counting the visual side as well. For example it is known that the final SHODAN cutscene was a result of miscommunication and great hurry.
I felt awe when I first appeared on Rickenbacker's bridge. Same for arriving inside the BotM, simply because of what the place is. But as I see it, everything else from Rickenbacker on is in need of improvement or complete overhaul (SHODAN confrontation).

...we can't use this.

Yet. It's WIP.
None of the technical issues are roadblocks. I can split the object into multiple parts and add caps in the resulting holes.
Does the geometry have to exactly follow the terrain so no polygons clip, or is it sufficient to have the base tall enough so its bottom can be fully submerged under the terrain?

So, is there an interest to get this brain in the game? Replacement or additional asset? Would someone maybe create a BotM modification or FM if I provided some more organs?

I would also love to have a SHODAN showdown replacement eventually. Not sure what, one idea is having a familiar area from the game, upside down and horribly twisted as SHODAN is using her reality-bending skillz, while taunting you through countless screens. Some vertical movement, lots of cables, wires and machinery. No physical humanoid form and NO "shoot the screen" for the final cutscene. But again, myself I'm not daring further than providing new objects, so someone else would have to really love my ideas. I'm already neck deep in Wizardry 8, and nowhere near finished with what I started.

[673fffe67331dRocketMan]

The original brain was a frickin bulging cylinder with some eczema on it or something.  I'm sure being "true to the original design" doesn't mean sticking to a higher res bulging cylinder.  As long as it looks like what the old crappy one tried to look like, I think that's all that matters... right?

[673fffe6737dbnemyax]

I would also love to have a SHODAN showdown replacement eventually. Not sure what

I like to think that SHODAN had backed herself up in Goggles' circuitry before she woke him—just in case.

[673fffe673951Olfred]

I made my life easy, that's why it's high poly.

Your model doesn't look bad, it just wouldn't work in the game. If you want to create new models you should open up the old ones to see what is needed and to get the aspects right.

[673fffe673a73Kaucukovnik]

Why would it not work? What's so fundamentally wrong there?
The only part that has to fit the original's geometry is the hole in the middle of the base, right?

[673fffe673bc4ZylonBane]

The player has to be able to walk up the sides of it. The brain base the player sees in the Many boss battle is actually about 2/3 object model, 1/3 terrain poking through the model... they're very tightly coupled. Rebuilding this area to accommodate a differently-shaped base simply isn't going to happen.

I'm assuming everyone here understands that the Dark engine does NOT support per-poly physical collision with object models. Objects only support sphere and box collisions, so the brain base model is just a fancy non-colliding cover for some underlying terrain. It may look to the player like they're walking on the model, but they're really walking on the terrain under it.

[673fffe673d24voodoo47]

or, to make it simple, the modified/enhanced models need to be direct replacements for the origs to avoid problems. that means same size, same shape, same functionality. just more polys and/or detail.

[673fffe673e8fKaucukovnik]

Oh my, and I thought Wiz8 has obnoxiously archaic engine!

Adjusted some more, and so far I got the base working and walkable, including those stalks protruding through it from underlying terrain.

The black stripes are a missing texture due to a typo.
Will continue with the brain itself later today, then try killing it and jumping down the chute.

Adjusting the vertical positioning of the brain and upper column will be a bit of trial and error, but other than that it should be fine.

[673fffe67403bvoodoo47]

actually, this has little to do with the engine - it's just that with a model that would not be a direct replacement, we would have to rebuild the area around it to make it work, and that's bad practice.

it would mean that the enhanced resource would have to be coupled with an appropriately modified map, and that's never a good thing, as it brings the mod's compatibility down to almost zero - a mod that enhances a particular resource should work like a plugin, no matter whether you run vanilla SS2, a total conversion or a fan mission, you should be able to simply enable it and it should just work (enhancing the visuals, and not breaking anything), no additional shenanigans required.

[673fffe67414fOlfred]

If you have any questions regarding creating and/or modifying the models, or need any help feel free to ask. I'm fairly adept with it by now.

[673fffe674531ZylonBane]

Oh my, and I thought Wiz8 has obnoxiously archaic engine!

Support for static meshes as arbitrarily-shaped terrain is in fact a relatively recent feature in game engines. It almost always requires creating a separate collision hull for physics interactions, or even just bolting on a list of physics primitives to approximate the shape of the object. The Dark engine actually has a fairly sophisticated physics engine for when it was released.

To quote the Unity docs--

The Mesh Collider builds its collision representation from the Mesh attached to the GameObject, and reads the properties of the attached Transform to set its position and scale correctly. The benefit of this is that the shape of the collider can be exactly the same as the shape of the visible mesh for the object, resulting in more precise and authentic collisions. However, this precision comes with a higher processing overhead than collisions involving primitive colliders (sphere, box, capsule) and so it is best to use Mesh Colliders sparingly.

Yeah, even 16 years later, per-poly object collision is pretty expensive.

[673fffe6746d0Kaucukovnik]

It's true that except for purely graphical side games have made very little evolution lately.
I'm not really mad about the technology, nowadays old games intrigue me more than new ones. And each of the engines has its pros and cons. Wiz8 needs separate collision mesh, but it can be any shape you want. Its draw order usually goes haywire if you let environment's polygons intersect.

The brain now has new textures except for the innards part, I'll just make that one less pixellated - it's perfect otherwise. After some further reshaping the brain is working. The only thing left are spikes on the base.

Damn those gamey, immersion-breaking stars! What's the model file for the stars? I want to turn them into disgusting meatballs!

What organics are in need of high-poly? Are there replacements for the nerves (NERVE*.BIN)?

[673fffe67484bvoodoo47]

flying cancer balls, what an idea. bb_ball.bin, if you want to have a look. //thinking about what the stars should represent, I'd go with levitating crystalline psionic amplifiers (crystal shard), so changing them into ikea meatballs is probably not such a good plan, but whatever.

anyway yeah, the nerves could use an update, especially those branchy looking thingies, they are painfully lowres. mod/resource requests are here. pile of disgusting worms would be a good start, if you are into organics.

[673fffe67492bZylonBane]

Pile of worms isn't a model though. It's just an animated texture.

[673fffe674a00voodoo47]

it could use some depth though, as mentioned in the worm pile topic.

[673fffe674b03RocketMan]

If you're going to change the stars, I would try to think up something that vaguely resembles stars, like the crystals Voodoo is talking about.  That way, it won't be such an obvious departure from the original design.

[673fffe674e69Marvin]

The new model reminds me of this. 

Did the terrain always shine through so much? I only seem to remember the grey, bone-like structure.

[673fffe675090Kaucukovnik]

Hahaha, and the shape is still causing trouble. Despite having resized the brain's colision box, the player can clip through it. Same as the bone structure, I guess - the collision is handled separately, based on the brain's destruction, right?
I think the clipping parts will look better after I replace the dark red texture on the base with the same texture the underlying terrain has. They are too jarring now.

I have decided to try helping those poor disgusting worms. Some clipping to be fixed, and the motion is still too regular, I think...

And since we have so much tasty food now, we need something to prepare and eat it with - missing cutlery textures: