Thief list of broken and lowpoly objects that need fixing

[67467d762c118voodoo47]

Coil03.bin - a Coil03 (-400) [a crack/see through part in the middle of the model]
doorkeep.bin - KeeperDoor (-3345) [texture mapped weirdly in the lower right corner, under the door handle]

[67467d762c359voodoo47]

self illumination does not seem to do anything.

IIRC you have to have illumination set on the texture in the 3ds model before you can use self illumination. It has to be built into the bin. Then it works.

hey Olfred, would you be able to do this?

[67467d762c5f3Olfred]

Currently I'm kinda busy.
But if you can explain the whole thing I might give some directions.

[67467d762c71dvoodoo47]

as always, my knowledge in this field is extremely limited - but, if I understand things correctly, objects that emit light can also self illuminate (useful, as generally, when something is emitting light, it should be bright as well), but for this to actually work, the model needs to be "self illumination ready". maybe LarryG could fill in the details.

also, no need to rush on this one.

[67467d762c84cOlfred]

There are only two things you can set in the matierals, one being the illumination, the other one is transparency. This needs to be inside the bin afaik. (Like the glowing buttons and stuff on the SS2 models)
The illuminiation of surroundings can only be achieved through the material files.

How the settings goes into the bin file is soleily based on how the exporter works.
I don't know about 3DS Max. If someone made a bin exporter for it you have to look up how it was implemented.

[67467d762cc01ZylonBane]

There are only two things you can set in the matierals, one being the illumination, the other one is transparency.

At least six things, actually-- texture, illumination, transparency, shading, double-sidedness, and color.

What they're talking about with the lights is bit of hackishness in the Dark engine-- If an object is set up in the editor to emit light, AND the model of the object has any materials with ILLUM 100, the engine will automagically cause those faces to be self-lit or not depending on whether the light source is turned on or off. This is how, for example, the fluorescent tube lights in SS2 go from light to dark when they turn off.

[67467d762cd21voodoo47]

there is that weird thing in T1 where when you douse a torch, the model jumps up a bit (when the burning torch bin is replaced by the doused torch bin). seems like newt01.bin has a different Z size and shape than newt02.bin - this could use a fix.

[67467d762ce26ZylonBane]

BSP actually has a command-line option for shifting the location of the converted model.

[67467d762cefbvoodoo47]

that would do the trick, I guess.

[67467d762cfeeOlfred]

What I do in this cases is that I add some vertices (which you won't see inside the game) to make the "smaller" model be the same size.
You could also add some polygons and make them transparent.

[67467d762d0c8voodoo47]

tiny bump on that T1 doused torch - still busy with other stuff, Olfred?

[67467d762d1aeOlfred]

Oh, wait. There was something left to do for me?
What was it again?

[67467d762d472voodoo47]

there is that weird thing in T1 where when you douse a torch, the model jumps up a bit (when the burning torch bin is replaced by the doused torch bin). seems like newt01.bin has a different Z size and shape than newt02.bin - this could use a fix.

basically, the doused torch model (newt02.bin) is "shorter", because it has no flame, so when a torch is doused and the burning model replaced with the doused model, the torch "jumps" up a bit. the newt02.bin model needs to be made as tall as the burning model, and moved down along the z axis to compensate for this.

[67467d762d586Olfred]

Ah, I kinda thought you would go with the thing ZB suggested.
But I can get to that the next couple of days.

[67467d762d66fvoodoo47]

thanks - I have never tried doing anything model related, so I have no idea how to use the tool.

[67467d762d784Olfred]

For me newt01.bin was unlit and newt02.bin was the one with the flame.

So here is the newt01.bin which should be working.
(Haven't tested it, currently I have no proper Thief installation)

[67467d762d8e8voodoo47]

yeah, looks like I've mixed them up, sorry. anyway, the model still needs to be moved a bit more down along the z-axis.

[67467d762d9eaOlfred]

Did it improve at all?
If not I need to figure out a new way to cheat the engine for Thief.
Since this is based on the model with the flame and I just deleted everything but the topmost part.

[67467d762dad7voodoo47]

yeah, significant improvement with the current fixed model - will use it if further modifications to the model are problematic and/or impossible.

[67467d762dbc0Olfred]

Can you see the dimension of the box the model will get ingame and compare that one?
Maybe I can work something out according to that.

[67467d762dce0voodoo47]

turns out the remaining small offset was caused by the torch having a small physics collision with the terrain, so the fixed model is ok as far as the z-offset goes. however, it spawns the dousing effect incorrectly - probably caused by using the burning model as a template (proper extinguish effect on the left, the new model on the right);

[bad_douse.jpg expired]

[67467d762de07Olfred]

ok, try this one.

[67467d762df0avoodoo47]

nope, same problem.

[67467d762dfe1ZylonBane]

You people are going to make me bust out BSP, aren't you.