New modder wanting to overhaul /HD remake the game. Looking for pointers

[674377841714bTidalWaves]

I’ve seen a lot of videos on Youtube about people making modern/ HD updates of some really old games and I was wondering if any one would have an idea how or where I could start on doing a project like this. I have an idea of some of the programs I'll need (like Maya auto desk), but I'm looking for a few pointers or suggestions before i start something like this. I've searched around a bit, but I haven't really found much info on how to start making my own mods -or maybe i wasn't looking in the right Areas, who knows.

Right now I’m planning on doing things like updated textures, realistic/updated character models, maybe work on the somewhat derpy AI of the enemies (at least in my game they can be derp tastic at times) etc. Like my mind is RACING with the possible designs for the character models but I don't know where to start.

I want to make the game a bit more 2010-current style in terms of graphics and game mechanics(to a point because i know due to the game's programing, one can only do so much before the game's programing goes "can't be done sorry!"), but i don’t know if the modding community, can or has tried to do things on such a scale as I'm planning or even where I'd begin to start. With smaller texture mods, small AI tweeks..?

System Shock 2 can be at times, creepy and scary… especially to some (i still whimper when playing some sections at times) . If I can figure out how to work on a project this size, I want to make the game borderline nightmare fuel or as creepy and realistic as I can to bring on the nostalgia while running from the protocol droids in the storage bays or from an army of hybrids (cursed alarms).

I haven’t decided on what to do with the audio logs or the music. I want to keep it as original as possible, but at the same time, idk how well the audio would fit if everything was modded to the extreme.I also have no clue how to re-do the cutscenes or if that's even possible at this point)

My wording may throw some people off -sorry >.<- and if you need clarification, let me know. also if this seems to be in the wrong section, feel free to move it.

If it wasn't so late tonight and if it wasn't for work tomorrow evening, I'd be doing the model concepts now for Goggles, SHODAN and the pipe hybrid in my sketchbook.

So if anyone can tell me if it's possible to do a mod this size, where to start or give pointers, I'd greatly appreciate it. I'd love to try to contribute to the community in some way other than let's plays (when my computer doesn't BSOD for unknown reasons )

[6743778417362ZylonBane]

I'll have what he's having.

[67437784176e3Join2]

Hey there TidalWaves. Great that you want to mod this wonderful game. Unfortunately you'll need to slow down there.

Take a look at this thread: https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=4437.0

If you are serious about modding then you'll want to aim for a project such as that, focused. In my observations Shock modding is not very accessible at all, but even if I am wrong aiming to re-do all the things you state would be quite the undertaking and some of it arguably unnecessary since there are already great mods for textures and such made by very experienced modders.
SHTUP already does object models/skins nicely, 400 mod does world textures, Vurt's misc stuff does all sorts. Rebirth does character models. They all stay true to the original design, except Rebirth. I recommend making a new mod that focuses on character models only, a mod to replace rebirth, to start with at least since that other initially extremely promising project I linked above seems to be dead. Just so you know you will absolutely not be able to get the game up to 2010's standards graphically due to engine restrictions. 
Focus on one thing at a time otherwise you'll get overwhelmed and burn out in no time. Working as a team is preferable, as is focusing on one's individual talents rather than trying to do everything. Modding is not easy.

I need a 3D artist for a very quick task for my Deus Ex mod if you have adequate experience with Blender or preferably 3DSMax (animating one model is all that is required). PM me if you are interested.

Oh, another possible mod I suggest you consider is weapon models & skins. Modders such as Mercurius have updated half of the weapons very nicely, but some weapons remain untouched such as the Laser Rapier.
Just make sure you focus on one field of work at a time.

Refer to other threads here in Engineering to help get a good idea of where to start.

[67437784178a6voodoo47]

seconded - if you want to get into SS2 modding, try doing a character model mod, hipoly but true to the originals, if possible.

overhauling the entire game is a gigantic task, and certainly not something for one person to accomplish. you will need.. Many.

[6743778417d11TidalWaves]

These were some of the tips I was looking for in terms of what to start on and after i went to bed last night -or rather was told to go to bed by mom haha oops!- i actually considered doing them in small batches -like as stated, character models first, then to other models. I was trying to figure out how to do the weapon models, and since you mentioned that the Laser rapier was never touched -among others- weapon wise it giver me a great idea of there to start weapon wise. Maybe I can do a bit of research on that end and get some concepts up today as well.

To voodoo: True to the original is what I do want to go for (Nurse Bloom in particular, as the only mod that does a good job on the "true to the original" it is Eldron's Midwife). for a while i'll work on concepts and post them here to see how much in detail and resolution I would or can go before i hit the limitations -and to even get some feedback.

Right now -today and maybe over the next few days- I'll focus in on SHODAN, Goggles/ player and the Pipe hybrid. I've seen screenshots of SHODAN in the final battle and with the design i have in mind, I'm trying to figure out how the hair/wire thing is going to work, but I'll cross that bridge once i start actually making the models. I'm going to be revisiting the original models as well as looking up some other horror games where the enemies look... well mutilated to try to give the models that horror feel again, purely for inspiration and originality sake.

I'm actually planning on going through the audio logs so i can nail down a good concept for the hybrids. I remember one log talking about Korvenchkin (s/p?) after he brought the eggs back, and it gives a description that i could integrate into the hybrid design.

To join usss: I know i may not be able to get it to look completely like a 2010 style or something like say this, but If I can get the resolution similar to the Arcaniac Shock2 True Redux mod -resolution wise- or even a resolution that's somewhere between the resolutions shown in the two screenshots, then that's in around what i'm thinking of doing in the model resolutions -and maybe once I tackle smaller things other various textures which i know more experienced modders have already tackled, but i'm a weird person who will complain to myself later for not updating the textures to give the illusion that the textures belong in a modern game if i work on the character models.

I was wording it a bit weird last night -and to some extent, probably making it sound weird today- and I should have said that I'd be happy to maybe texture it in a way that's high res and gives the illusion of being a modern game texture.


But agreeing with you guys i think I'm going to start on smaller projects like character models and move upwards. But before any of that, i'm going to need to draw some concepts,  and ask a friend of mine -who's taking classes for this sort of game design stuff... lucky little...- for a few ideas -art wise- or even if she has a few tips on doing models since I have little experience but am willing to learn and experiment.

Oh, also something i noticed in one of the links you posted, is it possible to and if so how could I add custom models for various crew members of the von Braun? I know Diego has his own model, but other notable character's don't. Is it possible to add other variants or is that one of the limitations we've encountered? This may help with the "enimies look the same" issue. I think I saw in the Rebirth mod that sometimes pipe and shotgun hybrids would have the annelids go from their chests, directly to their heads while others sometimes have the anilid wrap around their necks and go to the opposite side of their heads.

[6743778417e2bZylonBane]

Fair Warning: If anything you show us is of worse quality than the original resources, or wildly out of sync with the game's art style, we're going to tell you. This isn't one of those "You made a thing! Gold star! Yay!" type mod communities.

[6743778417f32voodoo47]

having custom models pre-placed in the levels is possible, doable and quite easy (you don't even have to modify the maps directly), the Bloome mod does this for example. spawning diferent pipe hybrid models would be slightly more difficult, but also doable. but first, the models actually need to be available.

[6743778418310TidalWaves]

thanks for the confirmation voodoo. I'll start the models once I get some concepts done as well as a bit of practice 3D wise

Fair Warning: If anything you show us is of worse quality than the original resources, or wildly out of sync with the game's art style, we're going to tell you. This isn't one of those "You made a thing! Gold star! Yay!" type mod communities.

.

Oh I'm well aware of that, and when it comes to this kind of thing, when you tell me something, like this, i prefer for people to be a bit on the blunt side. So let me get together some concept art of the first three character models and maybe the laser rapier and I can start from there.

[6743778418758RocketMan]

If you're going to work on Shodan may I suggest doing the wires and electricity on a transparent background.  I personally think it looks ugly as hell to have that opaque fan crudely jutting out from her skull like she's an angel on a Christmas tree.  You could also have multiple intersecting planes at different angles to achieve a 3D arrangement of wires and electricity, so it looks less like a cardboard cutout.  I don't think this is the "BEST" solution but anything more realistic would probably be really hard to do.  Plus you could do some texture animation to make the hair come alive

P.S. I can help with the technical aspects of getting in in-game if you get to that point.

P.P.S The way the game works, there is an archetype or template if you will for every object in the game including characters.  When you place one in the game it simply creates an instance of that template such that each instance carries with it a copy of the template's characteristics but you can change them without affecting any other instances.  You can also edit the archetype to affect all instances that inherit from it.  In this way you can decide the scope of your mod.  If you want to have unique characters, that's really easy because you only need to replace 1 object in the game where that character is currently placed.  That's how I got Eldron's Bloome working without changing the other midwives.

[6743778418858ZylonBane]

Though the least and second-least seen AI models in the game seems not the most productive use of one's time.

[674377841897cJoin2]

What the hell happened to that guy who started remaking the soundtrack? There is a conspiracy here? Modders come fairly often, seem enthusiastic and then shortly after we never hear from them again. Sure there will always be drop outs but few projects ever seem to get finished. Either ZylonBane is murdering them to preserve the artistic integrity of SS2 or modding this game really is that hard.

 

[6743778418bf6Olfred]

Modding this games often comes with a massive pain in the ass.
Especially when you worked with other (modern) engines where alot of stuff is easier and much better supported.
So no wonder people tend to drop out alot.
And sometimes people may just become busy with other stuff or simply loose interest after creating a big bonfire at first.

[6743778418dd5xdiesp]

Imho, your priority should be weapon animations. They looked prehistoric even back in 99. As for the rest of the models, take a look at those in Rebirth and see if you can make any better for the enemies. Personally, I find those atrocious and would sooner look at the crappy stick figures from the original.

As for the rest of the modern gaming thing... while working on my little mod, I myself made 2 additions that streamline the game a bit. Maybe you'll like the idea. One is about food and drinks: they stick to a pattern, where all foods stack in a single pile of things that give you +1 health, and all drinks into another pile that gives you +1 psi points. The other addition is replacing the crosshair with an alternate system... you know those big brackets that circle an item you are looking at? Well, you can see them from afar immediately around the target... without the cross of the crosshair... and a limited amount of autoaim ensures you can still hit the thing.

Those are my additions to the social cause of modern gaming. Make anything you want of them, I can provide the code too. But keep in mind that my goal was different: I modified the food\drinks details because my inventory was very crowded and I needed to make space; and I implemented that handholding with the aiming, to make up for the loss of time coming from having to switch many weapons.

[6743778418ef0voodoo47]

yeah, new gun animations, stackable food, and no-crosshair is what the game needs.

seriously, he is interested in improving the game visuals, and currently, a true to the original AI model overhaul is what is needed most. nobody really gives half a damn about weapon animations - they were good enough 14 years ago, and they will be good enough 14 years from now on.

[6743778419294Join2]

Not that I disagree with the rest of your post, but new weapon anims would be great. I can happily live with the simple move gun off-screen on one axis anim but proper reload anims would be great. Still, I agree character models should be the priority.

you know those big brackets that circle an item you are looking at? Well, you can see them from afar immediately around the target... without the cross of the crosshair... and a limited amount of autoaim ensures you can still hit the thing.

Across the room highlighting and auto-aim? 

[6743778419387ZylonBane]

I honestly have no idea what he's babbling about.

[6743778419651xdiesp]

Across the room highlighting and auto-aim? 

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/xdiesp/Shock22014-01-1822-53-12-37_zpse5d551c2.jpg

To the rest of the kids: read his first post again and chill out.

[674377841973fvoodoo47]

you know what would be really nice? making a topic for your mod and actually keeping everything related to it there, and not dragging it into other unrelated topics.

[6743778419956xdiesp]

you know what would be really nice? making a topic for your mod and actually keeping everything related to it there, and not dragging it into other unrelated topics.

Uh? My offer of help to TidalWaves are of no concern to you.

[674377841a2edTidalWaves]

As for the rest of the modern gaming thing... while working on my little mod, I myself made 2 additions that streamline the game a bit. Maybe you'll like the idea. One is about food and drinks: they stick to a pattern, where all foods stack in a single pile of things that give you +1 health, and all drinks into another pile that gives you +1 psi points.

I like the idea of stackable food stuffs and was wondering about something like that, but for now (Thanks for the offer and maybe once i get the priority objects finished I can devote more time to that), I'll see , I'm going to focus on one thing at a time, like getting the concepts done for the characters then starting the modeling... which I just realized tonight is more rusty than I originally thought. Oops. Long story but let's get back to the original topic....

I'm working on a list of priorities right now:

-Characters (concept > modeling > testing)
-Weapons (laser rapier is a high priority concept > modeling > testing)
-Foodstuffs, and other misc objects (namely objects you can pick up  like nanites and cyber modules etc. concept > modeling > testing)

-Whatever graphical thing I decide to do after I finish the above objects
-AI tweeks (like stackable items or enemy AI tweaks)

-??? , whatever Brilliant (/sarcasm or read the word "ambitious")  idea my brain comes up with afterwards... Maybe if i can get really good with the modeling program i may try out some cut sceneish stuff?  don't hold me to this Cut-scene idea yet! even I'm a little weary on doing something like that at the moment. IDEK if it'd be possible to change the original cutscene out with a new one.. interesting idea and wish though...

I have decided to wait until after I get some models done before making a finial decision on the plants and water graphics because Vurt's stuff is impressive, and I HIGHLY DOUBT that I'll be updating the Psi amp because even now, I love Eldron's model. 

If you're going to work on Shodan may I suggest doing the wires and electricity on a transparent background.  I personally think it looks ugly as hell to have that opaque fan crudely jutting out from her skull like she's an angel on a Christmas tree.  You could also have multiple intersecting planes at different angles to achieve a 3D arrangement of wires and electricity, so it looks less like a cardboard cutout.  I don't think this is the "BEST" solution but anything more realistic would probably be really hard to do.  Plus you could do some texture animation to make the hair come alive

)

I have an idea about what I want to do with Shodan's hair/wires, but I need to figure out how i'm going to draw it -at least on paper- first to see if I can figure it out, I agree that her hair going all peacock-tail is ridiculous, it should be allowed to hang down a bit and co-operate with gravity or even to.. idk the right wording... "blow in the gentle breeze" or maybe i can animate a texture to make it seem as if it was? even if the hair can't actually move, making it seems like it was is good enough for me.

I'm also trying to figure out the design on her dress. I've seen original concept art and the model in screenshots, but having never gotten father than OPS on my lets play -farthest I ever got before building my new computer- I haven't gotten to actually see her up close to get a good idea of what's going on with the design on her dress.

Regardless, I may have a concept page up for the player model soon.. I wanted to put it into photoshop to clean it up a bit and do a few more armor concepts, but with me needing to restore and try a few fixes on my desktop -i keep putting it off, oi- the best I may be able to put out in terms of  concepts are whatever i do in my sketchbook. So let me do a side view of Goggles, add a few notes for future reference -and hope my art skills haven't lost too much of their touch cause keep in mind I haven't taken art classes outside of what we got in school- and maybe add some color and post it. Then maybe i can start on the Pipe hybrid and Shodan... maybe by then I'll figure out how to draw her hair.

for now this is my plan, to finish some concepts and then get to work on the models and familiarizing myself with Blender or 3DSMax.

Edit: Ok I lied... i have already posted a sketchbook WIP of the full body minus the side view (and a future referance note) of the Goggles/ player on my tumblr, and I know one part of the concept may draw some "Errr i don't know about this" but I'm not sure if i should post it just wet without the side view.

[674377841af09Join2]

familiarizing myself with Blender or 3DSMax.

That in itself is going to take some time. If you plan to complete that list in it's entirety I hope you are prepared to stick around working on the game with much passion on the regular for at least three/four years. <- wild but likely accurate guess.

If you make an improved and true to source Laser Rapier, then I'll be very happy. You are probably better off starting with that tbh as in comparison to character models it's a rather simple model, but my advice may be sketchy there as this is not my field.

Edit: Ok I lied... i have already posted a sketchbook WIP of the full body minus the side view (and a future referance note) of the Goggles/ player on my tumblr, and I know one part of the concept may draw some "Errr i don't know about this" but I'm not sure if i should post it just wet without the side view.

Well, ZB warned you. If it's off you will be told (or possibly murdered if my suspicions are correct ). Post it when you finish the concept perhaps (and compare it to that other project's concept art which was spot on).
Shock 2 is one of the best games ever made and it deserves only the best mods to improve it.
You being a newbie are not going to produce excellent work immediately however, but given time you WILL improve as long as you keep at it, but do make sure you stay true to the original design when it comes to art style (minor creative ideas are considered acceptable if they are good though).

Hell, I wish I never released the first version of my mod when I did, it wasn't good enough for Deus Ex, but thankfully people were polite (not that I would have quit because I love these games), and now the mod is so close to 100% complete, polished, and Looking Glass-worthy, I believe. Just need to find a willing (and capable) 3D artist. You will be one in due time but by then it will be too late for me

[674377841b620RocketMan]

I have an idea about what I want to do with Shodan's hair/wires, but I need to figure out how i'm going to draw it -at least on paper- first to see if I can figure it out, I agree that her hair going all peacock-tail is ridiculous, it should be allowed to hang down a bit and co-operate with gravity or even to.. idk the right wording... "blow in the gentle breeze" or maybe i can animate a texture to make it seem as if it was? even if the hair can't actually move, making it seems like it was is good enough for me.

I'm also trying to figure out the design on her dress. I've seen original concept art and the model in screenshots, but having never gotten father than OPS on my lets play -farthest I ever got before building my new computer- I haven't gotten to actually see her up close to get a good idea of what's going on with the design on her dress.

FYI, animated textures in dark, historically at least, have been prohibitively piss-poor.  With newdark you may be able to make the movement look natural but just warning you you'll need to screw around with more than just the texture/model to get it right

As for the dress, well shit... have to honour the art style I guess but I think the kimono BS is completely out of place in this game IMO.  Having said that, Ajare has already modelled a kickass Shodan model.  Putting aside my qualms about modifying others' work, it would be kinda pointless to re-invent the wheel.  All the model needs is proper hair and to be rigged.

Re: the rapier, I would advise extreme caution with this, precisely because it's so simple and featureless.  In my mind it would be very difficult to improve upon the design without re-imagining it.  If you intend for it to be a universal replacement for the original, you'll have to go through some iteration to see what kind of changes really work well with this weapon and which ones just look too different or over the top.

[674377841bb55TidalWaves]

Well, ZB warned you. If it's off you will be told (or possibly murdered if my suspicions are correct ). Post it when you finish the concept perhaps (and compare it to that other project's concept art which was spot on).

Actually I was more worried about part of the armor (the banded grey, black and purple-grey cloth on the arms and legs.) and the cyber rig. some parts I'm unsure about so i noted next to them that i could remove them in the final design or change them to something else. That -from my perspective anyway- is the only things that may seem out of line regarding art style.

So my scanner is inaccessible right now with me restoring and fixing my computer right now, so my ipod had to be the next best thing. Please keep in mind that i'm not a art student and that's the best I can do at the moment color wise with no access to Photoshop.

Regardless, here's the finished concepts of the player model both Uncolored and with the color study.

I'm going to start getting ideas and working on the pipe hybrid now while keeping pages free for revisions.

[674377841bd26RocketMan]

A lot of that seems perfectly consistent with the current goggles model but some features are not.  The goggles and the hair are the first things that caught my attention, as what you've drawn are not goggles but sunglasses and the hair is supposedly covered by some sort of cap or an extension of the jumpsuit.  A gun holster makes about as much sense as a fusion cannon holster in this game unfortunately and since it's not on the original, I believe we are supposed to use that "suspension of disbelief" to imagine how he manages his weapons and inventory items.  Aside from that much of what you've drawn could work but I wouldn't dive too deep into the precursory work because as ZB said, you only ever see goggles in MP, which is a facet of the game that was stapled on and was not intended to evoke the same level of enjoyment in the same types of players as the single player missions currently do.