SS2 System Shock Infinite 2.4

[673f6a7981124JackTheHacker]

Thanks for the info! Check the latest patch, it has a fix for the "item under dead monster" problem.

For my mods I'm used to make mutators for specific player requests, but I hesitate here because I have to handle the big picture. If players start to play this the unintended way, and later complain about the same problems the new aiming system is supposed to counter (less shooter and more stats) then we've wasted 4 months. Notice how you report difficulties in aiming to still items, and the previous poster having trouble fighting with his inventory loaded: so much for the godly autoaim that kills mobs in your place.

Risks were taken and I never doubted the new elements to be criticized: I'm actually surprised no one is bashing me for adding a companion to a horror game plunged in solitude (there's a reason if she's a ghost, sending you to hack to pieces your own corpse lol).

I keep all your reports in high regard, at the moment I'm still filing this under "the aiming system takes acclimatization, goddamnit", but we'll see. Thanks Jack, keep it up with the good info too

I think it's best if it only targets living enemies(if possible), that would be perfect!

edit: I'll try out the new patch then, we'll see if that fixes the issue.

re-edit: Nope, there was a cup under  a desk in Engineering which I couldn't "aim" upon.  The issue needs more fixing, it seems. (didn't try with an actual corpse)

[673f6a7981563xdiesp]

re-edit: Nope, there was a cup under  a desk in Engineering which I couldn't "aim" upon.  The issue needs more fixing, it seems. (didn't try with an actual corpse)

Yeah I worked on the "item under a dead monster" problem, that's a cup under a desk. I will fix that too.

[673f6a7981782K-Bone]

I noticed after completing my objectives in Engineering B when I go to deck 4,get the Toxin A,and go back to Medical Deck that everything resets (including the Marie,Hybrid,and Googles NPCs which then end up just standing still.) Including logs and except for the turrents I hacked,Was this all from going through the tear in Engineering B?

[673f6a7981d58Join2]

Notice how you report difficulties in aiming to still items,

This wouldn't happen with the normal object highlighting though.

and the previous poster having trouble fighting with his inventory loaded: so much for the godly autoaim that kills mobs in your place.

Managing inventory in combat is expected vanilla if you didn't prepare before the battle/didn't just switch to wrench or whatever.
If jumped by hybrid when managing, TAB then 1 takes you out of inventory then puts a wrench in your hand. You PC noobs, I do all this with me console pad 

Risks were taken and I never doubted the new elements to be criticized: I'm actually surprised no one is bashing me for adding a companion to a horror game plunged in solitude (there's a reason if she's a ghost, sending you to hack to pieces your own corpse lol).

Good point. Let the lynching begin! 

 

"the aiming system takes acclimatization, goddamnit",

Cave! Restore the manual aiming and the highlighting/give us a mutator. 
There are plently that would have played the mod if it wasn't for these two things I am sure.

(2) How freaking difficult it was: Join uss would have appreciated it. AI moved 10% faster,

I did! I got beat down in the coolant tubes a couple of times. Some sim design stuff though: I didn't like the pop-up telling me about scaling enemies, and I would have preferred if you gave reason for their scaling strength either through dialogue or Hybrid organ research text or something (though you may have, forgive me if so). If you did it this way there wouldn't need to be a tutorial pop-up for this
Audio Log: Dr x: After further observation, not only have the parasite-infected monkeys become psionically (?) aware, but their physical attributes appears to be continually blah blah blah", and this log could have been conveniently placed where the tutorial pop-up was to be, if it really must. 

You make enemies' power scale, and make enemy classes require certain ammo types, that makes the game harder, and then you add across the room highlighting, autoaim and tons of resources to counter this?
 

[673f6a79820bbxdiesp]

Patch updated, these trash items are easier to pick up: cup, cigarettes, small potted plant, magazine.

JackTheHacker: long story short, I've just gone through all desks in the game. Those trash items were at the bottom of the food chain, in the opinion of the aiming system: now it's a bit easier to pick them up (also corrected a couple of instances of cups\cigarettes on desks, clipping to the floor) but if they end up under a desk, goodbye. Not so for ammo and usable items of course. Let's hope this little fix won't screw something up, I don't trust doing this without having myself a full playthrough later (I might do a Let's Play).

I noticed after completing my objectives in Engineering B when I go to deck 4,get the Toxin A,and go back to Medical Deck that everything resets (including the Marie,Hybrid,and Googles NPCs which then end up just standing still.) Including logs and except for the turrents I hacked,Was this all from going through the tear in Engineering B?

Nope, that's not supposed to happen. Did you update the mod, or change something in the installation? Anything strange in between selecting New Game and now? Because when you do a savegame, it makes a copy of the maps in the Current folder and things screw up badly if there's old Map 1 and new Map 1. I'll look into it, but at the moment I don't know.

[673f6a798220cJoin2]

Anyway, the mod was mostly bug free for me, from what I played. Good job.

Terminator Cutscene audio was way out of sync for me. This was the only cutscene that did this.

Playing the game with rebirth: Dead hybrid model in Med/sci 1 (above upgrade unit area) that Marie explains is immune to many damage types has his arm hanging in the air.

[673f6a7983102xdiesp]

This wouldn't happen with the normal object highlighting though.

Those trash items were ignored because irrelevant to gameplay, but I can understand if a survivalist player wants them so I helped Jack.

I didn't like the pop-up telling me about scaling enemies, and I would have preferred if you gave reason for their scaling strength either through dialogue or Hybrid research or something (though you may have, forgive me if so). If you did it this way there wouldn't need to be a tutorial pop-up for this

We did: Marie explains it at the bulkhead between Hydro 2 and Hydro 3. She explains about the aiming system too, before the corridor of death between Engi 1 and Engi 2.

Everything is explained twice. Just like with the Standard Targets tutorial at the beginning of MedSci 1, you have both Marie's little story and the straight-to-the-point pop-up that "hey, it's like this". And before protesting that this hand-holding is excessive, ask yourself what kind of modder would be arsed to help the player like this: most would bury the information in the changelist of a 500kb Readme lol.

Audio Log: Dr x: After further observation, not only have the parasite-infected monkeys become psionically (?) aware, but their physical attributes appears to be continually blah blah blah", and this log could have been conveniently placed where the tutorial pop-up was to be, if it really must.

You're talking about the Malone log in Engineering B? It's there, where you fight the chimps a second time (and serves as the second reminder).

You make enemies' power scale, and make enemy classes require certain ammo types, that makes the game harder, and then you add across the room highlighting, autoaim and tons of resources to counter this?

Targets require different weapons, not ammo types: ammo types have just different damage. Enemies scale not in damage they deal, but in resistance to lower leveled weapons: aka the diminishing returns.

edit

I noticed after completing my objectives in Engineering B when I go to deck 4,get the Toxin A,and go back to Medical Deck that everything resets (including the Marie,Hybrid,and Googles NPCs which then end up just standing still.) Including logs and except for the turrents I hacked,Was this all from going through the tear in Engineering B?

I'm sending you a PM too, in case you miss this edit. Do you still have a savegame from before you traveled to the "wrong" Medical Deck? And the thing that screwed things up, was to take the elevator from Ops to Medsci, or was it from Hydro to Ops?

[673f6a79835f7K-Bone]

edit
I'm sending you a PM too, in case you miss this edit. Do you still have a savegame from before you traveled to the "wrong" Medical Deck? And the thing that screwed things up, was to take the elevator from Ops to Medsci, or was it from Hydro to Ops?

It was from Hydro to Medical Deck,I went back there to get the recycler I didn't have money for prior and the rest I answered in the reply PM

[673f6a7983a2exdiesp]

It was from Hydro to Medical Deck,I went back there to get the recycler I didn't have money for prior and the rest I answered in the reply PM

Thanks: if you had not installed anything in between, I'm not yet sure what happened. Your best shot would be to return to a previous savegame and see if backtracking works.

If not, I reckon you can still complete the game with flying colors: if you've entered the tear in Engineering, there should be another at Dr. Watts' resting place; and if your old body near there is restored, you can at least get another chip.

edit
Taking a close look at K-Bone's savegame folder, I saw that it lacked several of the early mission files (while thankfully retaining the quest bits advancements). If anyone has a clue how this is possible, if he may please tell me...

earth.mis <-- missing
1_medsci1.mis  <-- missing
1_medsci2 .mis <-- missing
1_engi1.mis
1_engi2.mis
1_hydro2.mis  <-- he's just reached this level

[673f6a7983ee6Join2]

Snip

Yeah I've crossed a boundary now, criticising too much without playing the rest of the mod, so I'll shut up.
Strongly consider fixing the aiming and highlighting though, despite it being worked into the story

Hmm, I just watched the trailer. Looks like things get much more interesting later on, but butchering SS2's gameplay as you have is a crime. One irrational themselves committed

[673f6a798411cxdiesp]

K-Bone: I have asked and apparently this is a vanilla bug, which may occasionally disrupt progress. But thankfully in your case there have been no bad consequences, and if they had been we would have fixed that. Keep me posted if you keep playing!

Join usss!: I hope you liked Frank Sinatra and Charles Trenet singing for our trailer. I've spent the last month replaying the game with different builds and alignments, the aiming system isn't exactly my top priority but neither the last of my thoughts. You could always fix it yourself:

- the crosshair is the easiest to resurrect: just delete the "CROSSHAI" file;
- the range-50 brackets can be reset in Gamesys Variable -> Game Parameters -> Frob Dist, repeat for each of the 24 gamesys
- the range-30 homing effect can be disabled by removing the "homing" script in all projectiles, repeat for each of the 24 gamesys

[673f6a7984808Haios]

Okay, finished it all now. I thought it was a lot of fun with a great story and many interesting twists and turns along the way. Some new mechanics are welcome with open arms like the destructible doors and psi abilities.

After acclimating to auto aim, the gameplay was manageable. I still stick with my original gripes about it however.

Time for a bug report!

Major Bug Here - There is something wrong with the wormskin armor. After having it on for a bit (maybe 5 minutes) it would crash to desktop. I had both psi and health above 1 when it happened. When it starts to crash, you get a 10 second window to do what you can til the next crash. I tested it twice from the area autosave, moved to different zones, and dropped/picked it up. Minor addendum is it required no research to use.

Minor Bug - On the Rick2 level, the exit door gets stuck. I cleared out the next map and decided to go make sure I didnt leave anything before heading into the Body of the Many. I could not get the door to open back up so I deleted Rick2 and replayed that section.

Smaller Bugs - 1. The Rumbler Organ has a weakness description that is the same as the grub pod organ (Something to the effect that the annelid crystal will disrupt their link). 2. The Psi Boost Injector on pipes opposite of the middle tram stop cant be selected nor moved. A window with the auto-aim system is in the way, and it is probably fixed which would normally require psi-pull. 3.Psi Reaver Organ is unchanged from the original so it still says the psi emanations are easily dispatched (HAH!) 4. After hacking the old rig in the shuttle bay, the corpse rotated 90 degrees or so. 5. In cyberspace, there's a little pocket near the end where it looks like you stored the hacker and his datacube. Unfortunately, the barrier that usually blocks off this section was not there, and I could walk right through to see him staring into the corner and grab the datacube. This was when I ignored the ICE Pick laser rapier. 6. Also in cyberspace, down the central tower, you can see Marie, a tear, and a couple enemies if you lean over the bottom ledge and look down. 7. After you enter the tear in deck 4, you get stuck in the cell. I could not break the box in the ceiling the first time. After a reload it worked fine. 8. When facing Bronson and her men at the deck 4 tear, they are all immune to everything but Standard like hybrids. You would think that HUMANS of all things would not appreciate a grenade to the face.

Some more of my gripes...
On the rec deck, when you reach the basketball court, Marie just gives you the transmitter code. That really felt like the work I did on the entire deck was meaningless. It really undermines the entire mission on that floor. At this point, I'm sure most everyone here knows the code by heart, but that really hit a wrong cord for me.
On your reply to my previous post you said to just shoot down the high up objects that weren't reachable. Without a crosshair I would much rather not even attempt it. I doubt those hidden treasures are worth the nanites in bullets lost.
Energy Weapons.... where to even begin on this. I think this needs a serious rebalancing from top to bottom. In the start of the game, you get your single energy pistol to deal with 80% of the Engineering deck. You get 2-3 recharges if you get lucky with battery drops. If the second energy pistol had been placed before hitting eng2, it would be much less restrictive and less of a chance for getting stuck. Once you hit deck 5, the diminishing returns really start to show. Your choices are laser rapier robots and protocol droids, or spend 40 seconds backpedling or peaking in and out of corners to get a shot in. You probably won't have the emp rifle because that requires 6 AGI, 6 Repair, 6 Energy, and possibly that 4th level Psi Marie Break Security skill. Once you get it, it also doesn't seem as effective as the other level 6 weaponry against their targets.
The death of melee fighting. Except for that last segment, melee and melee related weapons/skills are nearly entirely removed from usefulness. A whole alternate combat style is gone because of the diminishing returns that hit around deck4.
Many of the long hallways with turrets and cameras don't behave well with the autoaim system. The open area on Deck5 crew section is a good example of robots vs cameras again.
Maybe I missed some key skill in the PSI tree for damage, but the Psi Reavers in the Body of the Many were built like tanks against my Tier 5 health drain. I had 24 psi hypos entering (I bought about 15 in preparation), and 0 leaving.
Chemical Storerooms need to be reworked if the autoaim is going to stay the way it is. I grabbed 4 different chemicals before I got the canister of worms on Rick1. Similar problems when grabbing chems for research on all decks.

Other Notes
I caved in and rebound keys to weapons whenever one got swapped out. It really breaks up the pacing, but can't complain with the results of death at your fingertips.
Ending Ammo Counts for future rebalancing: 137 Worms, 364 AR, 607 Fusion, 3 Psi Hypos
Changing methodology from a survivalist hoarder to more of a wasteful action hero improved inventory management greatly. I think I went down to 6 weapons instead of 10.
I only encountered a couple occasions where 3 types of mobs were after me. These moments were both intense and frustrating with the mechanics changes.

[673f6a7984b34xdiesp]

Haios: you have given me a tremendous contribution, thank you very much. I'm going to work on all the bugs and bad impressions you mentioned, then answer in detail after updating the patch. But I disagree with something: "the death of melee". A single run can't have everything 100%:

1) Wrench: forget you have a pistol. Replace when you move to Shotgun (likely in Ops).

2) Laser Rapier: level 3-5 bots eat laser pistol overcharges like nothing. The laser rapier, especially with adrenaline, would tear through them.

3) Crystal shard: it's your only annelid weapon until you get a viral proliferator in Ops, but if you want to save on worms, it doesn't become "completely outleveled" until you set foor on the Rickenbacker (level 7).

4) Psi Rapier: level 4+ psi creatures are designed for this and Soma Drain (now: PSI Drain). Sure, you can still beat them with lots of Pyro Projectiles (now: PSI Blast) and dancing around with Localized Pyro (now: PSI Field), but it's much faster in melee.

the Psi Reavers in the Body of the Many were built like tanks against my Tier 5 health drain

This got lost in translation, I'll think of something. They are vulnerable to PSI, but only after you've killed the brain.

edit
Haios: how many infinite chips did you get, in the end?

[673f6a7984d92Join2]

 

If the second energy pistol had been placed before hitting eng2, it would be much less restrictive and less of a chance for getting stuck

You can buy batteries from an Engineering replicator, the one just before the corridor of death.

[673f6a798515exdiesp]

Patch updated:

- Fixed the issue with the door in Rickenbacker 2
- Moved a laser pistol from Engineering 2 to Engineering 1
- Sgt. Bronson is a human target now
- Buff to the Positron Sniper Rifle (level 6 energy weapon)
- Chemrooms are more user friendly
- Moved cameras in open area of Rec 1
- Psi Reavers are correctly shown to be either "invulnerable" or "exposed"

Haios: I couldn't replicate your bug with the Worm Skin: it sounds like the psi-draining effect is causing the crash. I've applied some generic polish against the bug, but other than that I'm in the dark (could be a random bug, once an elevator button started crashing on me for no reason). Could you send me your savegame please? Was it the worm skin you get in the first level of the Rickenbacker, on the roof of the structure with a corpse and the fusion cannon?

The bug you got in Tear 4 is yet again the one in the FAQ where something becomes indestructible, and fixes after a quickload: this is the first time it happened on something that's not a monster. I have highlighted it in the FAQs and will investigate further.

Chemrooms are a bit easier to pick up items into, but accidents are still possible.
Moved around the cameras of the open area of Deck 5 to minimize crossfire with mechs.
Good idea with the laser pistol: I moved the one from the loading bays, to the corridor of death between Engi 1 and 2. By the way, most replicators sell batteries now.

About Bronson: done. Truth is, the original version of Marie's speech ended differently:
- "You have to hurry out of there, something terrible is about to happen..."
- "...they are no longer our team mates: just think of them as Standard Targets" <-- cut

About the EMP Rifle (now: Positron Sniper Rifle) being underpowered, it's a feeling you get from fighting mechs: turrets go down easily, but a mech is easily as strong as 4 turrets. I've looked into it, but your mileage might vary. Indeed it's more difficult to take on 3 targets of different types, we tried to keep areas themed after 2: standard and PSI, energy and PSI, annelid and heavy etc. But targets move and those situations can happen. About keybindings: personally I have the entire row of keys 1-0 (and to the sides) set to weapon selection. I.e. 2 is pistol, 5 laser pistol, 0 fusion cannon. Also, it's strange how you could enter the "Hacker" hiding place... I can't do it, but to be on the safe side, I've hidden him (and that other Marie down the pit) in a better spot.

[673f6a79859d9Haios]

You can buy batteries from an Engineering replicator, the one just before the corridor of death.

In hindsight, this is probably what I should have done. I never buy anything from replicators until at least Ops so I can get an idea of where the mod is headed. With all of the new features thrown at me, I wasn't sure it was a good purchase. There's the thrifty hoarder mentality I have working against me too.

Haios: I couldn't replicate your bug with the Worm Skin: it sounds like the psi-draining effect is causing the crash. I've applied some generic polish against the bug, but other than that I'm in the dark (could be a random bug, once an elevator button started crashing on me for no reason). Could you send me your savegame please? Was it the worm skin you get in the first level of the Rickenbacker, on the roof of the structure with a corpse and the fusion cannon?

Save file sent.

About the EMP Rifle (now: Positron Sniper Rifle) being underpowered

The mechs were definitely tough compared to turrets. Maybe its the other level 6 weapons being too powerful.

I have the entire row of keys 1-0 (and to the sides) set to weapon selection.

I usually bind 'y' to my mouse and just cycle through the weapons until I find what I want. The melee weapons don't show any ammo, so when you switch to one, you don't know what you get until the animation pulls it out. I bound `, 1-5, v, and g after your earlier recommendation though.

how many infinite chips did you get, in the end?

I picked up 8.

They are vulnerable to PSI, but only after you've killed the brain.

Ah, that hallway of death marathon before the boss would have been much cleaner If I picked up on that beforehand.

I think i'll try more of a Psi focused run next time and see how that compares.

[673f6a7985e8axdiesp]

I picked up 8.

I assume you were playing on top difficulty and opened all security boxes, trying not to buy anything from replicators. Did you make something of the treasure rooms which only Marie can open? Did you ever feel underpowered from not harvesting the old rigs? Underpowered has many meanings: there's the urge to always keep upgrading, and there's being unable to do what you want (and one may want to be more Rambo, or more stealth).

I moved that laser pistol from Engineering 2 to Engineering 1, but not exactly for a matter of ammo (there are no rechargers in Engi 1, and the ones in Medsci at that point would be probably blown already). It just opens up more possibilities in the corridor of death.

[673f6a7985fd5K-Bone]

btw xdiesp,Fuck you very much for making those Fly Swarms have an unlimited life span.

[673f6a798623bxdiesp]

btw xdiesp,Fuck you very much for making those Fly Swarms have an unlimited life span.

Are you using the crystal shard to kill them?

[673f6a798650bK-Bone]

Are you using the crystal shard to kill them?

My Character doesn't meet the requirements for it yet.But good to know in that regard...I guess it's useful against Rumblers as well?

[673f6a798665exdiesp]

Yes, it kills rumblers and with psi Adrenaline even better. But you just need Annelid Weapons 1 to use it (you can use the implant to research it).

[673f6a79869efHaios]

those Fly Swarms have an unlimited life span

That threw me off initially too. Viral Proliferator solved it nicely though.

I assume you were playing on top difficulty and opened all security boxes, trying not to buy anything from replicators. Did you make something of the treasure rooms which only Marie can open? Did you ever feel underpowered from not harvesting the old rigs? Underpowered has many meanings: there's the urge to always keep upgrading, and there's being unable to do what you want (and one may want to be more Rambo, or more stealth).

I was actually playing on Hard not Infinite. I only played medsci on Infinite before deciding that I would have too many problems with it. On Hard, I was able to unlock mostly everything I wanted except for the PSI tree. I didn't really have enough psi hypos or psi points to make that sort of investment anyway. I can't imagine the Shodan fight on Infinite with the 5pt damaging floors and the high damage cryoblasts, but I might have been considerably weaker at that point because I had to revert to heavy armor/power armor due to the wormskin bug.

Did you make something of the treasure rooms which only Marie can open?

The treasure rooms had their own locked up treasures inside of them in the form of broken weapons. I don't know if it was worth the investment as the requirements were too high to use anyway.

It wasn't really until the rickenbocker and unlocking 4 level 6 weapons that I felt in control. Before then, I constantly had the thought "Look at all of this ammo I can't use".

The moral choice system I wanted to avoid talking about. If you've watched the Zero Punctuation videos on Bioshock 1 or Dishonored you can understand the qualms with that type of system. I respect the choice thematically, but I feel it hinders gameplay or is net neutral at best. On Infinite I would probably need those cyber modules from old rigs or go for a stealty-psi approach (which is what I plan to do next).

[673f6a79876b3xdiesp]

That threw me off initially too. Viral Proliferator solved it nicely though.

Did you get that the Crystal Shard killed them? If Marie's little story is unintelligible, I can write a tutorial message about it.
edit: How about "Disrupts Swarms" in the weapon pop-up, inside the inventory?

Yes, treasure rooms contain gear that's only found much later: but to use it that early, you need to destroy the old rigs. I'm interested in your opinion on the moral choice system! What I remember from Yahtzee's opinion, is that he complained how these systems either pictured you a total monster or a goddamn saint. Do you think Marie guilt trips you too much, to stop you from harvesting the rigs?

You could say that the mod is balanced around Impossible\Infinite difficulty: but the previous difficulties aren't like before. They are mere degrees below Infinite. So, playing on Hard, it's just Infinite -1: nothing major.

[673f6a798795fHaios]

The first few swarms I encountered died off like normal. I went toe to toe against a couple of them before deciding it was best to keep my distance from exploding eggs, swarms, and grubs all together. The area effect from the Viral Proliferator meant it could take on multiple swarms, eggs, and grubs at once, so it was a tactical decision.

I hold a semi-firm position on this so don't think of it as criticism, but as only an opinion. Do not tailor your mod to me alone! I think that the moral choice system will lock you in one mode throughout a session. It's not like I would ever decide to harvest rig#8 when I got the previous 7 memory chips. And if I was going to harvest 1 of them, I would also do the rest. Each of these rigs is the same question: Will I be good? or Will I be greedy? It is a decision that I think is made outside of the game, rather than because of your role within it. It is not something morally ambiguous, like 'saving a bus full of burning retarded children vs. 1 normal kid in the bus's path,' which are the hardest questions to answer. I'm sure this kind of discussion could go pretty deep and we can all cite Socrates or Kant or whomever, so I'll stop here.