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Topic: GMDX: Deus Ex Mod.
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Re: GMDX v6 Beta (DX Mod)
6750a769ef8af
@Voodoo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1CsCPOqJIk

There is no dialogue option if you go with approach #1, and after the convo a trigger is enabled somewhat near the door that turns him hostile, so for most players he will draw on them as their back is turned.

I haven't touched any story scripting. Deus Ex is mostly solid in that regard, save a minor few errors here and there.

Edit: yes I have actually, but only in one or two instances.
« Last Edit: 14. June 2014, 23:57:16 by Join usss! »
Re: GMDX v6 Beta (DX Mod)
6750a769efc6f
About making AI throw grenades in the vents if you are hiding in there, it would be awesome but with the shitty pathfinding I can see all kinds of accidents happening. Not sure what to do to make that bit more engaging, it does suck that vent rats get immunity.

You don't even have to give the NSF soldiers LAMs and get them to try and throw them into the vents. Just edit the map and place some gas grenades or LAMs inside most areas of the shaft, though leave the path that leads to the top exit free of explosives, since I doubt any terrorist would have the guts to crawl up to such an out of the way place (and JC needs to get in somehow) . Also, I'd move that NSF guard who was sitting in the chair in one of those shacks and put him on a patrol around the back entrance of the shanty town (maybe he walks in a rectangle from the area that I entered in the back of the shanty town to the vent access entrance). Considering UNATCO has them pinned down, you'd think all the terrorists would be up and alert, as opposed to staring off into space.
Re: GMDX v6 Beta (DX Mod)
6750a769f00a7
You don't even have to give the NSF soldiers LAMs and get them to try and throw them into the vents. Just edit the map and place some gas grenades or LAMs inside most areas of the shaft, though leave the path that leads to the top exit free of explosives, since I doubt any terrorist would have the guts to crawl up to such an out of the way place (and JC needs to get in somehow

Sounds like you want to rig every inch except the exit with explosives :p

Unfortunately it won't solve the problem though as any player/build can deal with proxy mines no hassle (shoot them, among other options), and the player that puts points into demolitions skill would be able to disarm them all with ease resulting in them having a hoard of grenades.

Also, I'd move that NSF guard who was sitting in the chair in one of those shacks and put him on a patrol around the back entrance of the shanty town (maybe he walks in a rectangle from the area that I entered in the back of the shanty town to the vent access entrance). Considering UNATCO has them pinned down, you'd think all the terrorists would be up and alert, as opposed to staring off into space.

This was dumb of me. Good suggestion. Any more? I would like it to be the best it can be so keep coming with the feedback. It's already had a shit ton* of testing mind you so you won't find much, but the more perspectives to consider the better.

*v5 and all proceeding versions anyway...conversely v6 has had none besides me testing new stuff as I implemented it but it doesn't add a huge amount and no complex systems so I'm not expecting many issues.
« Last Edit: 15. June 2014, 01:32:30 by Join usss! »

6750a769f0566voodoo47

Re: GMDX v6 Beta (DX Mod)
6750a769f05c2
ok. I still think that Biomod's augs and gameplay changes are very close to the perfect setup, and I'm saying this as a very conservative person. the downside of this is that I'm unlikely to enjoy another mod which is closer to the vanilla in these regards. quote from the readme:
Code: [Select]
========================================
             Augmentations
========================================

Augmentations now fall into three categories based on the way they use energy

Active: Uses energy constantly while turned on.  This is what all of the augmentations in the original game were like.
Automatic: When turned on, goes into an "idle" state which uses no energy.  When idle, will automatically activate when needed and drain energy while it works.
Passive: Uses no energy.

All augmentations, including passive ones can be toggled on and off at will.  This is so that, for example, if you have microfibral muscle, you can still throw a chair at somebody's head without killing them.

Regeneration
============
Type: Automatic
Cost: 300 Units/Minute while healing
Description: Regeneration now works like the health system in most modern shooters, meaning that there's a delay between when you get hurt and when the healing kicks in.  If you want instant healing you'll have to use a medkit.  It's also a lot less efficient than it was before.

Aqualung
========
Type: Passive
Description: Aqualung now actually restores some of your energy when you're in water, in addition to letting you breathe.

Energy Shield
=============
Type: Automatic
Cost: 50% of damage from energy attacks
Description: Energy shield can now be left on indefinitely, because it only uses energy when protecting you from damage.

Power Recirculator
==================
Type: Passive
Description: Power recirculator is now passive.

Environmental Resistance
========================
Type: Automatic
Cost: 40% of damage from toxins
Description: Environmental resistance can now be left on indefinitely, because it only uses energy when protecting you from hazards.

Spy Drone
=========
Type: Active
Cost: 100 Units/Minute
Description: In addition to increasing the speed and reducing the energy drain, I've added a few abilities to make the spy drone better at, well, spying.  You can now use the drone to gather intel from datacubes, trigger buttons and switches, and even hack computers without exposing yourself to danger.  On the other hand, the EMP attack has an energy cost, making the spy drone less overpowered (but still useful) as a guided EMP grenade.

Aggressive Defense System
=========================
Type: Automatic
Cost: 15 Units/Projectile
Description: Aggressive defense now only drains energy when it's actually protecting you, so you can leave it on indefinitely.

Ballistic Protection
====================
Type: Automatic
Cost: 50% of damage from projectiles and bladed weapons
Description: Balistic protection can now be left on indefinitely, because it only uses energy when protecting you from damage.  Be careful though, as it can drain your energy very quickly if you find yourself getting riddled with bullets.

Radar Transparency
==================
Type: Active
Cost: 200 Units/Minute
Description: In order to reflect its usefulness relative to cloak, radar transparency's cost has been reduced by 100 units/Minute

EMP Shield
==========
Type: Passive
Description: Rather than making you spend energy to save energy, EMP Shield is now a passive reduction to EMP damage

Electrostatic Discharge
=======================
Type: Passive
Description: Similar to its counterpart in Invisible War, electrostatic discharge (added by Shifter) has been made passive

Microfibral Muscle
==================
Type: Passive
Description: Similar to its counterpart in Invisible War, microfibral muscle has been made passive

Speed Enhancement
=================
Type: Active
Cost: 40 Units/Minute
Description: Speed Enhancement no longer allows you move silently at high speeds.  You can still "crouchrun", but it'll make a racket.

Run Silent
==========
Type: Passive
Description: In addition to being made passive, run silent now reduces sounds made while jumping as well as running, similar to its counterpart in Invisible War

Tracking
========
Type: Automatic
Cost: 10 Units/Dart
Description: Replacing the targeting aug, tracking allows you to fire darts which when attached to a target will display its location on your HUD as well as the data you would get from targeting.

Vision Enhancement
==================
Type: Active
Cost: 40 Units/Minute
Description: The range of the sonar imaging effect of vision enhancement has been doubled, allowing you to see stuff through walls from a reasonable distance.


========================================
            Gameplay Changes
========================================

A "Challenge" system similar to xbox live achievements has been added

The swimming skill has been changed to "athletics" and determines movement speed on land and jumping ability in addition to swimming

An athletics skill of advanced unlocks the ledge Grab/mantling system: Hold the jump key down when next to a ledge and JC will hoist himself over it.  NOTE: YOU MUST REBIND YOUR JUMP KEY IN THE KEYBOARD/MOUSE SETTINGS MENU TO USE THIS FEATURE.

Changed the medicine skill to affect biocells as well as medkits to make it more useful

The demolition skill now determines the amount of grenades you can carry, making it worth upgrading if you care about explosives

Made the GEP gun take longer to lock on to things if your heavy weapons skill is low

Computers no longer make the player invisible when using them.  Now you'll have to beware of nearby enemies, cameras, etc. when hacking.

Removed the targeting reticles when using a scoped weapon unless you're actually looking through the scope.  That should give you something to think about before attempting to use your sniper rifle as a railgun, or slapping a scope on your tricked out superpistol.  You can turn this feature off by typing "noscoped" into the console.

Added white phosphorus grenades to the game

Ballistic armor, hazmat suits and rebreathers degrade with use rather than over time, and tech goggles have a much longer duration and can give you heat or sonar vision depending on your skill level.  These changes make the environmental training skill significantly more useful, so the skillpoint cost has been raised to be roughly equal to that of computers.

Pickpocketing system:  Press use on an enemy NPC who is unaware of you, and you'll steal their keys if they have any.

More convenient tools: Press use on an an item that can be unlocked, picked, or bypassed (except for keypads) and you'll automatically equip the appropriate tool.

Autosave feature: Automatically saves every time you change maps.

Unconscious NPCs can now be killed.  Also they dream, and have families who will miss them when you throw them off a building, you monster.

Added the ability to toggle buttons and switches by shooting them, Duke3D style.

Added bullet impacts on decorations.

Restored "armor ricochet" sound when shooting armored targets.

Added poisoned throwing knives to the high end random inventory list.

Added fire propagation between NPCs.

Added pain and death sounds that were previously only used by the player to NPCs.  No more people saying "oof!" when breathing in poison gas.

Made it so that NPCs can be "Stun-locked" by machinegun fire

Increased the amount of time between pain sounds on NPCs, to cut down on the "OOF OOF OOF OOF" factor.

Prevented the player from reloading their weapon when they shouldn't be able to.

pretty much agree with everything (maybe would switch some augs from passive to automatic, but that's it). but I have to say I don't care too much about the rest of the changes (achievements, for example), but those are easy to ignore. also glad that it removes Shifter's bonus skill points, which made upgrading way too easy.

also, while I do hate the duck and recover system, regeneration itself is ok, as long as it's sufficiently explained and the implementation is not ruining the game's difficulty. Wolverine: origins and Crysis use this, and I had no problem with those two games - because of the healing factor and uber suit, self healing is a proper mechanics in these games. same goes for DE - when I have a bunch of nanobots flowing in my veins set up to repair my body when damaged, I have no problems with auto healing (as long as I have energy). this is NOT your regular "I'm a normal soldier, now the enemy has shot me in the guts, I'll wait behind that rock and my wounds will magically disappear for no reason" modern shooter dumbness.
« Last Edit: 15. June 2014, 16:57:27 by voodoo47 »
Re: GMDX v6 Beta (DX Mod)
6750a769f0a25
Biomod is conservative? You consider a mod that gives you skill points for flushing toilets, in an Immersive Sim no less, to be conservative? Cmon man you're asking for me to slam another's work here...

"Regeneration now works like the health system in most modern shooters"

Well it would an improvement over the God-like vanilla regen if you couldn't still toggle it at will. You can still toggle it and it's values remain the same thereby not solving any of the major balancing issues regen caused. Let me know if you'd like to hear what these issues are.
This just adds automation for the sake of automation, and I don't see why you would do that other than to make the game more automated.

"All augmentations, including passive ones can be toggled on and off at will.  This is so that, for example, if you have microfibral muscle, you can still throw a chair at somebody's head without killing them."

GMDX does this better in MM's case. Left click= strong throw. Right click= vanilla throw.
The crap turned passive in GMDX doesn't need to be toggleable because its crap only turned worthwhile by it not having energy drain and being always active.

"Description: Aqualung now actually restores some of your energy when you're in water, in addition to letting you breathe."

Description: Aqualung now actually turns water into abusable repair bots. Fun for all because there is a body of water on nearly every map.

"Description: Aggressive defense now only drains energy when it's actually protecting you, so you can leave it on indefinitely."

Aggressive defense now makes you immune to rockets, plasma, throwing knifes, grenades, proximity mines and crossbow darts at all times, unless you turn it off or run out of BE, which is unlikely.

This was most definitely one aug you want to leave active.

Now the augmentation criticism is out of the way:

"A "Challenge" system similar to xbox live achievements has been added"

And I'll stop myself there. I made GMDX partly due to the other gameplay mods being so anti-conservative. Biomod has made solid augs passive/automatic, taking away player input and making gameplay automated (even though you can toggle them it's still problematic), GMDX only "passifies" the absolute crap (5 in total), previously irrelevant augs in the name of balance. Biomod does indeed have a couple of good things about it, but the guy who made it was a good programmer, not so much a good designer imo.

Now let me present my passive augs (only 5 in the name of balance, all the rest are active).

Aqualung: absolute crap now arguably worth investing in as it doesn't drain energy and is always on, in addition to all the other water-related changes I've made.

EMP shield: EMP shield, which was perhaps worse than even aqualung, is gone. Energy shield (another unworthy aug) now has it's perks. In place of EMP shield is a lesser form of ballistic protection that is passive, so you can choose between Ballistic protection (Active), or Ballistic protection (explained in-game as a new prototype, is Passive). Active is twice as effective as passive but needs to be turned on and drains energy.

Energy Shield: This Aug, which now features EMP shield's perks as previously mentioned (which is in-line with what type of aug it is lore/simulation-wise), is passive.
It's counterpart is the all powerful and balance-raping regeneration aug (which has also been nerfed) , so now the choice is quite a tough one.

The other two, well, not so much for balance. Microfibral Muscle, with it's new and improved behaviour, I wanted to be passive so it has a large impact on the gameplay and rivals the best augs such as speed enhance, which it now does.

Combat strength was made passive simply to rival Microfibral muscle. I considered doing the same as Shifter and Biomod which adds an EMP attack but that has no place as it will add further balancing issues.

With the first three augs I only did what I thought necessary to achieve balance. The last two are slightly less conservative but were semi-crap augs vanilla that now impact the gameplay more.
« Last Edit: 16. June 2014, 01:40:37 by Join usss! »

6750a769f0b6dvoodoo47

Re: GMDX v6 Beta (DX Mod)
6750a769f0bb9
I've said that I'm a conservative person, not that the mod is conservative. and yeah, agreed with that aqualung thing, forgot about that one. toilets, achievements and similar can be ignored (and I did ignore those when playing DE+Biomod last time). anyway, I didn't say the mod itself is perfect - just that it got the augs (and gameplay fixes) almost as right as possible, imho. some tweaks could be applied, but the active/automatic/passive aug system is a great idea. same goes for the gameplay fixes, like the athletics skill (though the mantle feels clunky, when compared to NewDark's new mantle for example), and the rest of the minor stuff (fixed sound schemes, removed sniper rifle crosshair etc). that is good stuff right there.

would love to see all that in a full community overhaul patch, which sadly does not exist as of now.


// one more thing I've liked on Shifter/Biomod - all junk you have left in your Unatco room was actually there upon next visit/mission, didn't disappear as in vanilla.
« Last Edit: 23. June 2015, 13:59:12 by voodoo47 »
Re: GMDX v6 Beta (DX Mod)
6750a769f0f80
// one more thing I've liked on Shifter/Biomod - all junk you have left in your Unatco room was actually there upon next visit/mission, didn't disappear as in vanilla.

This is good, and the mantling skill is somewhat* good. There's far too much in both Shifter and Biomod I disagree with though.

*Though I like the mantling and it is more simulated, more player control, the problem I have with it is on occassion you can reach places you shouldn't be able to without MMuscle or Speed enhance. However, it's too good not to implement as long as you make some changes to accommodate... it would fit perfectly in GMDX already because Microfibral Muscle would not lose it's worth since you can throw junk at people effectively now. As for speed enhance, it's a God aug so it won't be effected much.

All I can say is, if you want a conservative gameplay mod GMDX is for you, the conservatism as evidenced by all the reviews and feedback.
I wanted to stay true to the original design, just expand and improve on it. There is the very occasional break of sim design and old conventions (hardcore mode most notably, but it's optional) for the sake of gameplay, though the devs often prioritized gameplay anyway, such as with the skill system. Other than that, very conservative, in-line with the original design principles. Every design decision I have to ask myself "Is this suitable for Deus Ex/the Immersive Sim", just like you guys do for SS.
« Last Edit: 15. June 2014, 22:22:00 by Join usss! »

6750a769f101ePrimitive Primate

Re: GMDX v6 Beta (DX Mod)
6750a769f1068
So they do actually die from getting a wooden box in their face?

6750a769f1435voodoo47

Re: GMDX v6 Beta (DX Mod)
6750a769f1484
yeah, throwing stuff does damage, drop/throw something heavy on an NPC and he will die.

I also don't like some of the Shifter/Biomod additions (though as I've said, they are pretty easy to ignore), that's why I'm mentioning just the stuff I really liked, things I consider "universally good" so there shouldn't be any reason why anyone would not want them.

more good stuff I've remembered:
- it's possible to pick up logs and throw them away, so they wouldn't make crates upon which they were placed on impossible to pick up.
- can frob an unaware NPC and steal his keys, if he has some.
- random loot on NPCs.

Though I like the mantling and it is more simulated, more player control, the problem I have with it is on occassion you can reach places you shouldn't be able to without MMuscle or Speed enhance. However, it's too good not to implement as long as you make some changes to accommodate...
yeah, had to do the same thing in TFix after enabling new mantle (set a bunch of item types as non-mantleable to prevent the player from playing spider man). when such a feature gets implemented, the maps may need a tweak or two to accommodate it, no surprise there.
« Last Edit: 15. June 2014, 19:06:14 by voodoo47 »
Re: GMDX v6 Beta (DX Mod)
6750a769f1827

- it's possible to pick up logs and throw them away, so they wouldn't make crates upon which they were placed on impossible to pick up.

Yes, universally good.

- can frob an unaware NPC and steal his keys, if he has some.

I'd need to go over possible scenarios/outcomes, but I think it would be alright.

They are likely universally good but both are very minor. I will make note for the next version, however.


-random loot on NPCs.

I wouldn't mind it if it was just the rare candy bar or soy, but Bioshift has some useful tools in it's list. I've worked hard for the game to be somewhat old school & hardcore in it's balance & choice/consequence, where every choice really makes you think, like SS2 really (minus it's own balancing issues). Saying that SS2 had randomized loot but as far as I am aware it's all very minor stuff, plus it has respawning enemies so it kinda needed the rand.

Still, it's something to consider but it's another low-priority feature.
« Last Edit: 16. June 2014, 01:44:21 by Join usss! »
Re: GMDX v6 Beta (DX Mod)
6750a769f1b75
yeah, throwing stuff does damage, drop/throw something heavy on an NPC and he will die.

GMDX handles throwing differently: using super strength at max level throw a metal crate at a standard human and he will die in one hit. Not effective against all enemy types though, especially late game, and it's rather crap at lvl 1-2.
There's a fair bit of new code there because it changes the throwing behaviour completely.

Edit: Sorry, didn't mean to double there.

6750a769f1ca8voodoo47

Re: GMDX v6 Beta (DX Mod)
6750a769f1cf5
- fire extinguishers, player can extinguish himself when on fire, can extinguish burning fires, increasing darkness.
- BioShift has tweaked the pepper spray, so it's more useful now (I think).
- darts and throwing knives disappear when shot into damageable objects. bit weird - throwing a knife into a potted plant would not break the knife or make it unrecoverable, no matter how you look at things. darts, being much more fragile. could break and be unusable though, so that may be ok. anyway, I would imagine the (ideal) throwing knives as very rare, but almost impossible to lose, unless one throws them into some unreachable place where they cannot be retrieved (or perhaps blows them up with explosives, I'd imagine they would be unusable then). not sure what they do against armored targets - ideally, they should do no damage and just fall to the ground, ready to be picked up once again.
« Last Edit: 15. June 2014, 19:47:48 by voodoo47 »
Re: GMDX v6 Beta (DX Mod)
6750a769f1eae
"fire extinguishers, player can extinguish himself when on fire,"

Vanilla behaviour.

"can extinguish burning fires, increasing darkness."

Pretty cool,

"- BioShift has tweaked the pepper spray, so it's more useful now (I think)."

Yes.

"- darts and throwing knives disappear when shot into damageable objects. bit weird."

Yeah it does it for all actors, I haven't looked into why but I probably should.

Again it's all minor stuff, but worthy of consideration regardless.
But likewise there's plenty GMDX does that Bioshift does not. For the most part they have different goals, mostly notably Bioshift both make DX easier, whilst GMDX makes it harder. Bioshift also does next to nothing in regards to the balance of the systems, and in some cases upsets it further.

Shifter did most of this stuff you list, a lot of the minor details being good, and the bug fixes were vital for the community. Biomod is more like small add-on for shifter that gets rid of the horrible skills for kills system but adds a not so good aug system.
« Last Edit: 15. June 2014, 20:42:48 by Join usss! »

6750a769f1fe2voodoo47

Re: GMDX v6 Beta (DX Mod)
6750a769f202c
wasn't sure about the extinguishers. also edited my previous post, more knife stuff (my personal suggestion this time).

and yeah, it's all minor stuff, but then again, most things are. SCP is also like that - hundreds of minor fixes, and thousands of tiny, insignificant ones, that only the devs themselves will ever know about and enjoy.

example - did you know that the wormblood implant actually does not require any energy to operate (a.k.a let you consume worm piles to gain health)? probably not, and I'm not aware of one single person finding out about this bug - as the implant is used so rarely, it just never runs out of charge. but anyway, a solution has been found after some fiddling around, and now it's fixed. anything that can be fixed, is worth fixing.


//also, not sure whether this was BioShift, but the extinguishers could be used as makeshift pepper sprays, also not a bad idea. could be also made work on bots, temporarily blinding them/taking their sensors offline.
« Last Edit: 15. June 2014, 20:06:10 by voodoo47 »
Re: GMDX v6 Beta (DX Mod)
6750a769f241e
wasn't sure about the extinguishers. also edited my previous post, more knife stuff (my personal suggestion this time).

Good suggestion.

and yeah, it's all minor stuff, but then again, most things are. SCP is also like that - hundreds of minor fixes, and thousands of tiny, insignificant ones, that only the devs themselves will ever know about and enjoy.

As a whole, yeah, not everybody is going to notice every minor differing detail.

example - did you know that the wormblood implant actually does not require any energy to operate (a.k.a let you consume worm piles to gain health)? probably not, and I'm not aware of one single person finding out about this bug - as the implant is used so rarely, it just never runs out of charge. but anyway, a solution has been found after some fiddling around, and now it's fixed. anything that can be fixed, is worth fixing.

Didn't know :)


//also, not sure whether this was BioShift, but the extinguishers could be used as makeshift pepper sprays, also not a bad idea.

Vanilla behaviour.
Re: GMDX v6 Beta (DX Mod)
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Anyway, despite my efforts there is still one or two balancing issues, which I hope to clean up soon.
Re: GMDX v6 Beta (DX Mod)
6750a769f261a
Episode 3 is Up. Includes Hell's Kitchen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laNuIhjZNh8
Re: GMDX v6 Beta (DX Mod)
6750a769f27eb
You made some bad choices and suffered the consequences, interesting to watch :)

Some notes again:

1. Aqualung Aug is only passive in the latest version. You made a good choice getting environ resistance instead because it is indeed the better aug (but shouldn't be in v6, should be a balanced choice).

2. Good suggestion on changing the MJ12 Troop names at this point in the plot, in addition to some of their dialogue being inappropriate. I remember this bugging me years ago. Unfortunately I have no ConEdit experience, which is the tool for changing dialogue, so I don't feel confident going in there making changes/learning it's use just for this one thing. An alternative would be to remove their barks/calls all together but I'm not sure that would bode too well either. Hmm.
I can easily change their name to "Paramilitary Troops" though, I think that would be a great change.

3. That tunnel with all the lasers: that doesn't go to the warehouse but back out onto the street. Interesting that you never noticed that in all your playthroughs. The lasers there can be avoided with pure player skill also, just like vanilla, I just made them harder to bypass with jumping/crouching combinations. Of course there are alternatives such as using multitools on the control panel or throwing an EMP nade, or just running through like you did.

4. That room you didn't break into had an aug upgrade cannister in it :P

Fun episode.
« Last Edit: 21. June 2014, 14:53:13 by Join usss! »
Re: GMDX v6 Beta (DX Mod)
6750a769f2933
@AP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNwBK-lODYc

Changed the names to PM Troop as per your feedback and I also had an idea to do a nice little event with the TV.
I've made a few other minor changes based on watching you play also. You are helping me be a perfectionist :)

Looking at the mission scripts for Battery Park, I have no idea what happened in the subway in your playthrough. Vanilla bug? No idea. Will try to replicate.

   
« Last Edit: 23. June 2014, 02:41:35 by Join usss! »
Re: GMDX v6 Beta (DX Mod)
6750a769f2e24
Still sceptical about hardcore mode? Here are the thoughts of Obsidian Entertainment's J.E Sawyer:

This post is about game design. Just bear with me.

In the 1982 World Cup Group stage, the West German and Austrian teams found themselves in an odd situation. With the Algeria-Chile match already played, the West Germany-Austria meeting would be the final match of Group 2. Based on the point spread of all four teams in the group, West Germany and Austria knew exactly what results would allow both to advance: a marginal (1-2 goal) West German victory. After West Germany scored in the first half, both teams settled into what was effectively pantomime. For the remainder of the 90 minutes, they politely passed the ball in their respective halves of the field, opponents occasionally making halfhearted challenges - but no real scoring attempts.

The strategy was transparent to everyone, from the announcers to the angry crowd. Though popular culture condemned the match with names like Nichtangriffspakt von Gijón (Non-Aggression Pact of Gijón) or, even more pejoratively, the Anschluß, it ultimately allowed both teams to progress out of the Group stage. West Germany made it all the way to the final.

To half-solve the problem in subsequent World Cup Group stages, FIFA scheduled the final two matches for any given Group to take place concurrently. In the case of West Germany-Austria, it would have prevented the teams from building a strategy based on the outcome of Algeria-Chile. However, FIFA didn't really fix the underlying issue, which was the design of how teams accumulate points in Group and how those points determine who advances out of Group. And now, on Thursday, June 26th, it's possible we could see a repeat of the Non-Aggression Pact of Gijón at Pernambuco, Brazil, when Germany faces USA. As in 1982, due to the point spread between Germany, USA, Portugal, and Ghana in Group G, both Germany and USA will advance in the event that they draw - regardless of the results of the Portugal-Ghana match happening simultaneously. Given the widespread condemnation of what occurred at Gijón in 1982, it's unlikely to happen again, but nothing in the rules would prevent it.

When designing the rules for any challenge-based game, regardless of the form it takes, it's important to consider how the structure of the rules may promote working against the spirit of the game. What designers allow players to do may inadvertently reward behavior that even the players themselves find to be boring and unenjoyable. If these behaviors are advantageous enough, players will gravitate toward them with increasing frequency until they become the de facto "correct" tactics and strategies for play. One of the most commonly-discussed features that produces this effect is save scumming. Being able to save and load your game at any time is extraordinarily valuable for players, if simply for convenience. However, the way save/load works in conjunction with other mechanics can strongly promote reliance on save/load to overcome difficult situations.

As an example, many role-playing games use virtual dice to "roll" a check when attempting to overcome a single obstacle, such as a locked door. In such cases, the player typically has one "try" on any static obstacle. In practice, they effectively have as many tries as they want as long as they are patient enough to reload. This type of interaction doesn't test players' skills in any new way, it doesn't ask players to attempt any different tactic, and given the "one try" system the designers put in place, it seems to go against the spirit of what the designers were trying to accomplish. While players love succeeding at overcoming obstacles, the percentage who love doing it via save/load is probably very low. Even so, that's what the game's design promotes doing for the best outcome.

By writing all of this, I have no intention of placing any blame or fault on the players. In challenge-based games, designers present obstacles and create the rules and tools for overcoming those obstacles. Players can hardly be faulted for finding and taking advantage of shortcomings in how the systems interact. In the aftermath of Gijón, both teams had to deal with the anger of World Cup fans - especially fans of the Algerian team, who had been denied a chance at moving on due to the West German/Austrian collusion. And there is no doubt that the players who suited up and went on the field that day did not spend their young lives dreaming of strategic pantomiming. Still, FIFA's rules promoted that behavior - and still promote similar behavior. A repeat of Gijón at Pernambuco would produce justified howls of outrage. Still, a paraphrase of the old maxim applies: don't hate the players, hate the game design.

Source: http://twofoldsilence.diogenes-lamp.info/2014/06/rewarding-degenerating-gameplay-lessons.html

Interesting how he too used football for comparison. 
« Last Edit: 23. June 2014, 22:59:04 by Join usss! »
Re: GMDX v6 Beta (DX Mod)
6750a769f2f4f
Nice work on the MJ12 troops, it makes more sense now that the soldier would get up to patrol the area once the signal for the TV goes offline. I was working on another episode this morning when I was interrupted by my 19 year old sister who doesn't know what a shut door means, so episode 4 will be coming most likely tomorrow. Keep up the great work.
Acknowledged by: Join usss!
Re: GMDX v6 Beta (DX Mod)
6750a769f3097
Here's Episode 4 that I decided to split into three parts. Overall, I had some trouble taking out the generator due to the fact that I had not upgraded my hacking skill to "trained" yet thus making it impossible to hack into the computer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPApTVXAWPo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwzElg5mp1I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMERObTIZfg

6750a769f3157voodoo47

Re: GMDX v6 Beta (DX Mod)
6750a769f31a8
that made me remember - the "buy me a beer" scene is weird, it doesn't seem to matter whether you buy the beer right away or not, the first one will always be "warm".

the whitish wall looks like a fogging problem (first vid, 4:57).
Re: GMDX v6 Beta (DX Mod)
6750a769f35ce
Overall, I had some trouble taking out the generator due to the fact that I had not upgraded my hacking skill to "trained" yet thus making it impossible to hack into the computer

You can blow the generator directly using a LAM, rocket or the explosive barrels right next to the generator.

Watching...

Edit: Oh, you knew that you could blow it up.

the whitish wall looks like a fogging problem (first vid, 4:57).

Whoa, that's odd. Not my doing though, GMDX doesn't touch those Underworld tavern maps, one of few it does not (I really should, most nonsensical and ugly maps in the game).

@AP: you can increase the number of cycling Save slots in user.ini (100 if you want). But I just half an hour ago changed the default to 20, as 10 wasn't enough, I agree.
« Last Edit: 26. June 2014, 23:52:45 by Join usss! »
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