GMDX: Deus Ex Mod.

[68288cdca6dd1voodoo47]

I can stomach hi-powered rifles destroying wooden doors (interesting idea about just busting them open btw, I certainly wouldn't mind that), but handguns (or regular rifle bullets on anything armored) look incredibly gamey. and wire mesh stuff getting destroyed by anything else but explosives, well, that looks just stupid.

also, a few doors being too strong for no good reason (some regular doors at Lebedev's plane, if memory serves) is equally bad.

to make it short, it would be great if object/door destructibility could be as consistent as possible, as realistic as possible, and if all doors that wear the plot armor could look the part.

[68288cdca722fJDoran]

Re: keypads and manual entry of passwords etc, I like the way this is handled on the PS2 version of Deus Ex (called Deus Ex: The Conspiracy, even though it's 95% the  same as the PC game, except minus the multiplayer). In the PS2 version, you (the player) don't enter the password manually, instead it's automatic. So if you (or rather J.C.) knows a password or code etc (if he's read it or heard it, whatever) then when you click on the keypad/terminal then it's entered automatically. If J.C. doesn't know it, then of course J.C. doesn't enter it, and you're not given a chance to randomly type anything in.

I like this, as it saves me having to remember or look up the passwords, and to me it makes the game slightly better. But I can understand if other people feel that it removes an element of realism from the game, and also maybe if anyone were to say that it dumbs the game down slightly and removes the need for some actual thought by the player regarding the passwords. Plus the PS2 method also stops the player from cheating, since if (s)he has played the game before, or has looked at a walk-through on the 'net and seen the passwords, they (s)he can't enter passwords that they perhaps shouldn't yet know at that stage of the game. And again, that will split peoples' opinions, as some people will say "Good, you shouldn't cheat", and others will say "Play the game how you like, as long as you have fun then great".

RoSoDude, you mention lock-picking, and that's an interesting subject I think. I've wondered before if Deus Ex should have a mini-game for lock-picking and hacking , and if so, then what sort. It goes without saying, of course that if there is a mini-game then it should be fun and not too long, and definitely not either tedious (such as the Prey 2017 lock-picking mini-game, which manages to be very short and yet still seems tedious) or unfairly difficult. And it especially shouldn't be a different sort of difficult to the rest of the game, by which I mean if the mini-game is word-based then it might just cause problems to people with dyslexia who are otherwise having no trouble playing through the main game.

On the other hand, other people might say that no mini-game is needed, as your hacking and lock-picking skills should depend entirely on your in-game lock-picking and hacking skills, with nothing else to complicate the issue.

[68288cdca76d4voodoo47]

you (the player) don't enter the password manually, instead it's automatic.

thanks but no thanks.

[68288cdca7d3cRoSoDude]

@JDoran I'm aware of the PS2 system. Same as Invisible War's. Though I don't despise it, I also think it's out of place (but not because of association with IW). Looking through your notes and figuring out what code applies where is part of gameplay, and there are a few opportunities to apply lateral thinking to guess a username/password combo based on incomplete information. I very much like how Deus Ex requires and encourages you to pay attention to your objectives and the information you've gathered, rather than just fast-forwarding through conversations and clicking on datacubes/emails to collect passwords.

However, I do take a harsh stance against degenerate strategies like metagaming with password lookup, so I have been gestating the idea of adding a Hardcore+ feature which checks if you've seen or heard a passcode in the game world before you can use it (except for 1- and 2-digit keypads). This anti-scum feature obviously would have its own issues with immersion since terminal/keypad behavior magically changes when you learn a passcode, but there are actually 1 or 2 examples in the vanilla game already where a passcode doesn't work until you learn it (try 1997 to get into Tong's hideout before you get the Dragon's Tooth Sword), and if you're looking up passcodes or remembering them from previous playthroughs, you're already taking yourself out of the shoes of your character. I have a way of doing it that would preserve all the examples of plausible lateral thinking that I can recall, but there would likely still be some losses. The point would be just to have it as an optional mode for players who want all of the scum potential scrubbed out of the game, as Hardcore already does with the save system and cheese like pepper spray blocking lasers. The only reason I haven't bothered yet is because of the effort it would entail, and because of the (likely) possibility of screwups and bugs.

I'm not opposed to minigames (sue me, I actually like HR/MD's aside from their ubiquity), but I think Deus Ex is fine without any. Especially for lockpicking and electronics, which have a nice resource-based system. I wouldn't mind more sophisticated hacking, though, and if I were really to expand it I would like to see more strategy around the timer in some manner. Right now it's just not very interesting.

...man, Prey's hacking minigame sure was mind-numbingly dull, though. Possibly the worst individual element in the whole game, even when used sparingly.

[68288cdca7f13voodoo47]

also, what about the all-knowing key ring? displaying "you don't have the right code" when the key exists somewhere, and "it's locked" when it does not?

was this conversation in vanilla?
https://youtu.be/SMNA3QMJQUs?t=1014


//also another good example of the destructibility being all dumb - reinforced glass should not be batonable:
https://youtu.be/SMNA3QMJQUs?t=1452

[68288cdca80beJoin2]

You're giving examples of destructibility in a different mod which has a different damage model convention than vanilla and GMDX. There is no baton-able metal gates and reinforced glass here.

[68288cdca81fevoodoo47]

yes, as an example of something that should be avoided at all costs. and I'm very sure even GMDX has at least one wire mesh grate that's shootable with the sniper rifle.

I don't remember whether GMDX also has that extended free clinic conversation, maybe you'll clue me in.

[68288cdca82feJDoran]

I've never heard that conversation before, either on the PC or PS4.

[68288cdca843bRoSoDude]

That conversation is vanilla and still present in GMDX. I've heard it before, and just checked the latter. You have to talk to Jake after he mentions Squalnomie in the first conversation, then after he mentions... something else in the second conversation. The first conversation with his buddy plays as you walk in, and the second as you walk out. It's one of the more detailed NPC scripted conversations in the game.

[68288cdca8824JDoran]

That conversation is vanilla and still present in GMDX. I've heard it before, and just checked the latter. You have to talk to Jake after he mentions Squalnomie in the first conversation, then after he mentions... something else in the second conversation. The first conversation with his buddy plays as you walk in, and the second as you walk out. It's one of the more detailed NPC scripted conversations in the game.

I've just learned something new about Deus Ex! It's shows how deep Deus Ex is that you can still find new things about it, even when you think you know the game backwards. The last time that happened was a few months back (might have been on this forum), when someone mentioned doing something in the game (I can't remember what) and it was something I'd never tried, and I thought I'd tried everything. Well, aside from actually playing the game with some of the augs (such as the EMP drone, or the swimming one) or with no skill points and no manual-saving. But I'd not tried to do whatever it was that someone mentioned, and I thought I'd tried every way to explore the game and to try to break it's logic.

[68288cdca89ecvoodoo47]

quick idea - Smuggler's place lasers red if broken in without giving the code, will release the bot and he'll attack the player, if password is given make the lasers blue, and the bot will be friendly.

[68288cdca8bceRoSoDude]

Red lasers always denote alarms, while blue lasers always the opening of doors for e.g. bots to come out, so a color change is out of the question.

Moreover, I'm on the side of keeping the challenge of the robot regardless of whether you have the password. No, it doesn't make perfect sense (there are ways to handwave it, like regulars knowing the password to the security terminal as well), but it's a fun obstacle and I don't want to make the password entrance even more superior to the backalley entrance than it already is.

There is a bug with the lasers activating twice and closing the door as soon as it's opened, though... gotta resolve that. Oh, and removing the bot being friendly on later visits for the prior stated reasons, and also that completing Ford Schick's side objective is reward enough for visiting the first time.

[68288cdca8d36voodoo47]

I think there are exceptions (NSF and the explosives at the metro station). I'd say that in this case, things making more sense is worth removing the challenge - as mentioned, people complain a lot about this, and I wholeheartedly agree, if you know the password/are friends with the Smuggler, defenses should be down.

Revision is ridiculous in this regard, adding a dozen mines around the place, because hey, a blown up customer is the best kind of customer.

[68288cdca9069RoSoDude]

I should have been more generic with blue lasers, but the point is that red lasers are always alarms and blue lasers are always something else. That's all. It's an important tell for what system is being engaged by the laser trigger. Deviating from this even once spoils the consistent visual language, potentially causing the player to lose or fail to gain an understanding of what they indicate. Plus, almost no player is going to assume that tripping lasers will ever lead to null consequence, and so will act as if they're operable anyway. The only solution would be to deactivate the lasers, which is inconsistent with Alex's warning and JC's questioning about booby traps.

GMDX also has mines at Smuggler's place, but in far fewer numbers and only of the nonlethal type (a gas mine once, an EMP mine once). I would say this is still acceptable within the range of the booby traps talk (notably, no comment is made about having the password or not) without approaching absurdity. A minor demolitions challenge which is unlikely to kill you and can be avoided just by keeping your distance it is fair game, as it wouldn't catch frequent guests off guard.

If players first discover Smuggler's hideout through their own serendipitous exploration (which is highly reasonable if you explore that back alley where the bum is getting held up by NSF thugs right off the subway station, rather than first getting clues from other side objectives), I don't think it's fair to make them pay an additional multitool fee for doing things in the "wrong" order, provided they haven't trained hacking or don't have the ingenuity/confidence in body awareness to build a crates stack to get over the lasers. In some RPGs something like that would be an obvious gate for higher skills or being given the way in elsewhere, but in Deus Ex most challenges of this sort are locally solvable and intentionally so, so it'd be rare for someone to turn back in the hopes of getting a free pass elsewhere in the mission. Letting you skip the challenge on later visits also bypasses the fun escalation in difficulty that Join added (more lasers, higher multitool strength, higher hacking skill requirements), and is too big of a reward for acquiring the "bloodshot" password which will happen if you do pretty much anything other than beeline straight for Osgood and Sons.

[68288cdca919dvoodoo47]

I know it's possible to work around it in hundred ways, but it still feels dumb/wrong. ah well, can't have it all.

[68288cdca92cavoodoo47]

Revision actually has a setting that will disable all epileptic lights - while probably an overkill, I do agree that all epileptic lights should be made to flicker in a non-epileptic way (last time I've played GMDX, they still were epileptic, if memory serves).

[68288cdca94a5RoSoDude]

Update: I've decided I'm not going to delay release much longer with the more ambitious features I had in mind (like Hardcore+ keycode anti-scum), since I simply don't have the time for it these days. Instead I'm going to use what time I do have to fix the issues reported during beta, tie up some loose ends, and work on version merges. I can always come back to my fork later and pick up where I left off; I'd rather have it in players' hands for testing and feedback ASAP.

Some progress for today:

Using the "Change Ammo" button or ammo icons to swap ammo types now equips the weapon and performs and active reload if Real-Time UI is enabled (forced on in Hardcore). Otherwise, the original background reload remains.

The near-instant reload speed of per-shell loading weapons (Sawed-off Shotgun, Mini-crossbow, GEP Gun) when using the ammo icons has also been fixed

https://vimeo.com/296246074

[68288cdca959cvoodoo47]

random question - the thing with AI barks not getting interrupted when getting prodded or batoned is gone, right?

[68288cdca96a3RoSoDude]

Nope, I didn't get to that. I'll add it to the short list for 9.0.4 fixes. Good catch on that. Was there another issue with barks as well?

[68288cdca97e1voodoo47]

99% of whatever I found should be available in this topic - this was just something that came to mind quickly while watching a Revision video and noticing they don't have this fixed yet (I suspect it's not just a prod/baton thing, basically whatever random thing the NPC is saying will probably not get interrupted when receiving damage/dying/being knocked unconscious, resulting in the NPC talking while also screaming, which is just weird).

[68288cdca9ac7RoSoDude]

Posting updates again: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/gmdx-deus-ex-advancement-mod-v9-released.85250/page-120#post-6143430

The biggest addition is individual toggles for HDTP assets. You can now choose to use the vanilla Dragon's Tooth, riot prod, baton, and grenade models (popular revert requests) alongside the new weapon models at your discretion. Still working out a few visual glitches and a better option to change them on the fly (current only available through ini or cheat commands). Other than that, it's mostly technical under-the-hood stuff and some miscellaneous fixes. A few interesting balance changes though:

• Melee attack speed is now halved when out of stamina
• Swapped some lategame aug canisters; patient players can install both Power Recirculator and Synthetic Heart
• Every percentage point of damage increase on weapons now counts, where before weapons with low base damage had to reach integer thresholds to see any improvement (e.g. Assault Gun/shotguns needed +33/66/100% etc. increases to have any effect with a base damage of 3)

...I'd better have a beta version out by the anniversary of my last one or so help me God.

[68288cdca9be2voodoo47]

a wild random memory bit appears - were the flies removed from corpses that are placed (or get created by the player) on indoor maps?

also, great call on getting rid of the weapon damage thresholds.

[68288cdca9d7fZylonBane]

That plasma robot sounds like it's shooting water balloons at you. Why didn't you reuse the actual plasma gun sounds?

[68288cdca9e5avoodoo47]

woah, yes, that doesn't sound right. I don't believe I've played this version, would have noticed and reported if that were the case.