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Topic: Dev Q&A with MAHK
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I mean, you don't just put something like that into a game unless there is some deeper meaning, now do you?

Not in a LG game anyway ;)

I guess it's just something to be left to the imagination, maybe was overlooked or they ran out of time.

6742a532263d9ZylonBane

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exactly, no backstory anywhere.
I've always assumed they're just immature annelid worms. Simple as that.

6742a53226567voodoo47

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so, at which point of the lifecycle they get put into the eggs? I've mentioned this before, among all the SS2 things odd, the worm piles are probably the oddest.

6742a53226670ZylonBane

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Eh, adult worms emerge from both eggs and bodies in SS2. Maybe the Many just builds the eggs empty, and whatever needs shelter moves into them. Would explain why they can contain different things.

Anyway, these aren't really questions for Mahk. Maybe split this discussion off to a separate thread?

6742a53226b6dunn_atropos

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Where did you read that? I've never heard that before. And, the number of decks supported in ShockEd is exactly the number of decks we ended up with.
In this articel (lower right corner)
Shock reduzier/ shock reduced
according to alpha-plan the cruiser  "von Braun" should have 16 decks. Only half made it into the final game
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Since you brought up that review: Was the original name of the player character in SS2 "Esper" (before it actually became a system shock game)?
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Ok guys, I'm not comfortable answering design or story questions about System Shock 2, since that was mostly Irrational's game and I just helped with the tech a little. 

SS1's engine was a raycaster right?

There are a few different things you could mean by "raycaster."  You could mean "ray-tracing renderer," which was unfeasable in real time back then, and to my knowledge has never become popular for real time stuff.  Or you could be referring to the "planecasting" technique that Doom used.  In either case the answer is no.  System shock used the tile map for efficient culling & sorting of the scene, and rendered back to front in software. 

System Shock 1: Was the Cyborg drone inspired by cpt. Picard as Locutus?

Almost certainly.

Do you have any cool stuff left from System Shock 1/2 and the other games you worked on. Like unstripped maps, artworks, scripts etc.?

Not really.  I think I still might have a few posters & stickers from shock 2, but that's about it. 

MAHK, how about the PDA games? There's a great quote from Warren Spector somewhere about how freaked out he was that people were wasting time writing these minigames for SS1. By the time of SS2 I guess you guys felt like it was something you had to do as part of the Shock tradition? It's interesting to get into the editor and enable the unfinished minigames, like the Donkey Kong and Tempest clones. And Overworld Zero genuinely impressed me. If that had been released back in the early 8-bit days it could have been considered a full commercial game.

Well, we had video game references in UW1 (Pac-Man) and UW2 (QBert) and it seemed natural that our video game reference could be an actual video game.  The games were definitely labors of love. Yeah people worked hard on them but they were working really long weeks and I think for the guys who did them it was a source of sanity.  Overworld was awesome.  I remember trying to find quite enemy-free corners of Rickenbacker just so I could play it in peace.   

How did the SS1 cyberspace come about and what were the reasons, besides time restrictions, that it was changed so drastically in the sequel? Can you share some rejected ideas? If you could change the implementations in both games, what would you do (if you wanted to)?

At the time I think we wanted to make sure we were hitting all right cyberpunk notes, and cyberspace was a big part of that.  By the time we got to Shock 2 I recall that the general sentiment was that cyberspace felt like a superfluous minigame in Shock, and wasn't really the best part of Shock.  Also, I think the web was all that much more mature, and the fantasy that we were all going to be navigating the internet in luminous 3D was kind of over with, globally. 

As you mentioned id Software, how were you influenced by them, other than on a technical level? System Shock was years ahead of its time but lost commercially to its contemporary "simpler" ego shooters. Did you guys ever wanted to, or were you ever pressured into sacrificing elements of the game in order to cater to pure shooter fans?

I don't think we ever thought about catering to pure shooter fans, and I certainly don't think we really wanted to dive into the red ocean with everyone else.  I do think we were looking for ways to leverage our tech on shorter, cheaper projects that would help us build momentum for the next big thing.   Id was good at that. 
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What would you tell someone who wanted to follow in your footsteps, push the envelope further and make a living doing so? You'd call them crazy, right? Especially today, where game budgets are so high and the demands of the market are...different.

Everybody should lend support to Otherside Entertainment if they love this type of game. It's Paul Neurath's new studio, and for those that don't know (likely none of you), Paul was the co-founder of Looking Glass and the Immersive Sim.
« Last Edit: 17. September 2014, 22:54:51 by Join usss! »

6742a5322775cZylonBane

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I don't think we ever thought about catering to pure shooter fans, and I certainly don't think we really wanted to dive into the red ocean with everyone else.
I know you're answering a question about SS1 here, but this does remind me of the 1999 E3, where due to Columbine you guys were apparently forbidden from showing any gameplay that involved guns.
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I know you're answering a question about SS1 here, but this does remind me of the 1999 E3, where due to Columbine you guys were apparently forbidden from showing any gameplay that involved guns.

Was this a rule handed down just by EA to it's subsidiaries or was it an E3-wide ban?

6742a53227b09OmegaDEATH

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I read about columbine shootings.
But as usuall the miss understood is blamed. 
If you read the stuff they wrote you can see these kids were totally not healthy  :(

Here in south africa we had a kid that cut up his classmates and blamed it on slipknot "band"
The courts ruled that he was not mentally stable. :P
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HelterSkelter made me do it!
*jumps into waterslide*
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Hi Marc,

I don't have any particular questions at the moment, so I just logged in to say that you are a legend. I'm still to this day blown away by all the physics, scripting and simulation stuff in LG games, particularly Act/React system in Dark Engine. Thanks so much for your incredible work. The fact that people play, adore and cherish many games you worked on, to this day, and will keep doing it for decades to come, is a testament to the genius of you and the entire team at Looking Glass.

Dishonored, Bioshock, Deus Ex, Skyrim? Could not be possible without you and the team. That says something.
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Btw thanks for doing this!

Ok, I know this is probably way too speculative for this Q&A but I can't resist:

We knew we didn't want to do conversation trees because we felt like those were unsatisfying and immersion-breaking, which is why you never meet any live humans. 
Do you think it can be done with current technology or conceivably in the near future?
Maybe you could even hint at what you think the biggest obstacle is and if you would ever consider trying to implement NPC conversations in a project of yours?
Your solution of avoidance plus audio logs is still benchmark in my opinion.
« Last Edit: 18. September 2014, 20:27:04 by Ndrake »

6742a532288b5ToxicFrog

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No questions yet, but I just wanted to add to the thanks. LGS's games are among my favourites and System Shock consistently tops the list; I've done a bit of hacking on it, too, and the tech always impresses. And I always love hearing stories from the devs. :) My wife and I will definitely be watching the cast on Sunday.

Actually, one question: you talked earlier about your favourite bugs in SS1. Did you have favourite tester feedback? DFan had a story about UUW1 where one tester complained that the sports car (added as a test for the 3d model handler) wasn't drivable; did you ever get anything like that for SS1?

Ok, I know this is probably way too speculative for this Q&A but I can't resist:
Do you think it can be done with current technology or conceivably in the near future?
Maybe you could even hint at what you think the biggest obstacle is and if you would ever consider trying to implement NPC conversations in a project of yours?
Your solution of avoidance plus audio logs is still benchmark in my opinion.

I think Alpha Protocol demonstrates pretty conclusively that interactive NPC conversations can be done in a way that doesn't break immersion, albeit with crushing budget requirements. Planescape Torment handles it pretty well too, albeit in a completely different way.

That said, both of those games build the entire game around the conversations; I'm not sure how well it would work in something like SS1. And honestly, I love the audio logs, and the feeling of gradually piecing together what actually happened as you find the logs out of order and slowly assemble them into a complete narrative.
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It's not just simulation: no friendly NPCs are good for the survival horror aspect too: trapped alone with no one to rely on except yourself.
Strong simulation design with Survival Horror is a good combination, of course.

It's not suitable for all Im Sims though. Underworld, Deus Ex, Arx and others just wouldn't be the same without the friendly NPCs.

6742a53228ae4ZylonBane

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Mahk, are you registered on the Quarter to Three forums? There are a lot of System Shock fans over there, and I know they'd enjoy watching the livestream.
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Mahk, are you registered on the Quarter to Three forums? There are a lot of System Shock fans over there, and I know they'd enjoy watching the livestream.
Also RPGCodex. Join usss could post there.
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Sure, but I want this kind of fan effort for Underworld Ascension also, even if it is not organised.
Dedicated, talented, passion-driven devs should prosper, and shouldn't feel pressured to throw half their budget at marketing.
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Done. I contacted one of the moderators to post it as news.

6742a532291f4ZylonBane

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Geeze, the announcement already got picked up over at QT3. I hope Mahk is okay with the extra publicity.
« Last Edit: 18. September 2014, 23:04:27 by ZylonBane »
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I'm not on Qt3 right now.  If someone could post over there that would be great. 

6742a5322942bToxicFrog

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Oh, I just remembered another question I meant to ask!

If you look at the gamesys entry for Cortex Reavers, they have two attacks: one short-range machine gun, and one that, from the stats, looks like some kind of long-range explosive weapon. But the only Reavers in the game are placed so that you engage them at close range and never see their long-range weapon.

Was this deliberate? Was the weapon deemed too nasty to expose the player to, or were there technical issues related to it? Or did things just kind of end up this way accidentally?

I've toyed with the idea of replacing the sec-1 bot at the end of that long hall in Deck 7 with a Cortex Reaver to see what it does, but my tooling isn't powerful enough to do that easily yet.

6742a5322974ehank morgan

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Oh, I just remembered another question I meant to ask!

If you look at the gamesys entry for Cortex Reavers, they have two attacks: one short-range machine gun, and one that, from the stats, looks like some kind of long-range explosive weapon. But the only Reavers in the game are placed so that you engage them at close range and never see their long-range weapon.

Was this deliberate? Was the weapon deemed too nasty to expose the player to, or were there technical issues related to it? Or did things just kind of end up this way accidentally?

I've toyed with the idea of replacing the sec-1 bot at the end of that long hall in Deck 7 with a Cortex Reaver to see what it does, but my tooling isn't powerful enough to do that easily yet.

It's a nasty grenade launcher that pretty much one-shots the player. See attached map file.
« Last Edit: 22. September 2014, 22:09:52 by Kolya »
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