Citadel - System Shock Fan Remake

[6744016bc6edcJoin2]

A compromise of half the weapon may be cool.

[6744016bc70b0Kolya]

Never change R-Man.

The textures look really cool, but the circular door still looks low-res, I guess that one is WIP?

[6744016bc74b0JML]

Sometimes just the tip is all you need brother.

Thank you for that "Betthupferl"!

[6744016bc7931Synaesthesia]

Never change R-Man.

The textures look really cool, but the circular door still looks low-res, I guess that one is WIP?

That's an issue in Shock 1 as well. The highest resolution for all doors - including hidden doors - is 64x64. Standard wall textures can go up to 128x128.

[6744016bc7ec1RocketMan]

Thank you for that "Betthupferl"!

Had to look that one up.  Sounds like bedtime in Germany is where you wanna be if you're a kid.

Synaesthesia:  Aren't there fewer pixels in a door because of its relative size and aspect ratio?  I would think that's why they chose to use the lower resolution.

[6744016bc81f5JML]

Had to look that one up.  Sounds like bedtime in Germany is where you wanna be if you're a kid.
[...]

No, little Rocketman. It's either a bedtime story, or a small treat (e.g. chocolate) before you have to "jump" into the bed (as a kid).

[6744016bc84fbSynaesthesia]

Synaesthesia:  Aren't there fewer pixels in a door because of its relative size and aspect ratio?  I would think that's why they chose to use the lower resolution.

I'm pretty sure everything in the game worked off a square grid, including the doors. They might have scaled down the resolution since it would have been easier to animate frame by frame at a lower res. No idea, honestly.

[6744016bc8768JosiahJack]

Oh yes I'm planning on having weapon view models; already have some done but just not put in-engine yet where I could show it off.  Debating whether to have them centered (Doom/Quake style) or handed (ofc with RH/LH choice).  There will at least be more than just the very tip but the muzzle sprites and view model angles were considered as I made each weapon model.

All textures for walls are 64x64 in the floppy version (afaik).  The CD version had the full size 128x128, but I'm not sure why doors were kept small.  Could be because they were heavy on graphics memory what with all the frames or it was considered too much work to do all the frames at higher res.

Yes some of the doors are still WIP.  Iris door and medical secret wall are particularly overly plain.

[6744016bc8b1clastonearound]

Sometimes just the tip is all you need brother.

I would rather go all in, but to each his own I guess.

In all seriousness, while I am all for keeping it as vanilla as possible, this would be a clear improvement in my humble opinion. Not to mention it would look great and help new players get into it.

I know because I first played SS2 after finishing Half-Life 1 and while I loved the game, I hated most of the weapons. (I know it is not fair to compare these two games, but still) I thought the way our character holds the weapons just with his right hand no matter how large they are was simply ridiculous to say the least. This is the reason why I love the left hand mod for SS2. (to the point that I think it should be included in the patch)

Seeing the whole weapon would add to the immersion as well. It would slightly modernize the game in a way that wouldn't take away from what it is.

[6744016bc8fccSystemMaster]

Oh yes I'm planning on having weapon view models; already have some done but just not put in-engine yet where I could show it off.  Debating whether to have them centered (Doom/Quake style) or handed (ofc with RH/LH choice).  There will at least be more than just the very tip but the muzzle sprites and view model angles were considered as I made each weapon model.

All textures for walls are 64x64 in the floppy version (afaik).  The CD version had the full size 128x128, but I'm not sure why doors were kept small.  Could be because they were heavy on graphics memory what with all the frames or it was considered too much work to do all the frames at higher res.

Yes some of the doors are still WIP.  Iris door and medical secret wall are particularly overly plain.

Well, it is your call, but I think Doom style wouldn't really go that well with System Shock. It would be great if it was more like a mix of System Shock 2 and early Counter Strike. (I am only talking about the weapon placement of course, but I would also like to be able to see both hand with bigger weapons)

By the way, what is the texture size limit? Is it 256x256 like System Shock 2? I was thinking about improving System Shock textures, could you upload a sample for me?

[6744016bc9408ZylonBane]

Well, it is your call, but I think Doom style wouldn't really go that well with System Shock.

So System Shock style wouldn't go that well with System Shock?

[6744016bc9782SystemMaster]

So System Shock style wouldn't go that well with System Shock?

You should read again. I said Doom style wouldn't go that well with System Shock. Doom weapon placement and SS look nothing alike. Not to mention if the System Shock style weapon placement was that good, it would be the standard right now, but it isn't. So I would say it doesn't really go with anything, not even SS. They did it like that because back in those days, it was something many other games did.
 
I stand behind what I said, best weapon placement you can get for System Shock would be something more similar to System Shock 2. It is both familiar and more modern. It would work the best.

[6744016bc9966lastonearound]

I believe the main reason why they made the weapon placement the way they did is because the computer screens at the time were small and since the HUD (would it be considered HUD?) covered most of the screen, so if they placed the weapon the way Half-Life did, you wouldn't be able to see most of the screen. One of the biggest improvements this mod brings is to minimize the HUD so you can see more of the game in my opinion.

[6744016bc9a84JosiahJack]

I might go for a hybrid approach.  At least have reload anims.  I love reloads.

[6744016bc9dcfZylonBane]

Doom weapon placement and SS look nothing alike.

Doom: Centered at the bottom of the screen.
System Shock: Centered at the bottom of the screen.

[6744016bca0calastonearound]

Doom: Centered at the bottom of the screen.
System Shock: Centered at the bottom of the screen.

No, you can see your entire weapon in Doom, not the case with SS1, where you can only see the very tip of your weapon. Doom is centered in the middle, SS1 is centered at the very bottom of the middle, it is so low, you almost can't even see it. Saying they are the same is just nonsense.

[6744016bca40bZylonBane]

No, you can see your entire weapon in Doom...

Oh, you can see the entire rocket launcher? The entire shotgun? The entire plasma rifle? The entire chaingun?

[6744016bca6adlastonearound]

Oh, you can see the entire rocket launcher? The entire shotgun? The entire plasma rifle? The entire chaingun?

Compared to SS1? Yes.

[6744016bca88aZylonBane]

So "no" then.

The only difference between Doom and SS1's first-person weapon presentation is degree. Doom shows more, SS1 shows less.

[6744016bcaa10lastonearound]

So "yes" then. More is not the same with less. And you may try to make it sound like difference is very little, but anyone who played both games can tell you that's nonsense. 1 is less than 100, but that doesn't mean the difference between them is negligible.

[6744016bcab42ZylonBane]

I can see abstract thinking isn't really your forte. "Different-sized sprites? Totally different!"

[6744016bcacb9lastonearound]

We were talking about the "placement" of the weapon. This has nothing to do with sprites as it could have been a 3d model, and their size would be about the same. Just the weapons in SS1 are placed way lower. You see how it works? "Placement", "placed lower" It is different. Weapon sprites for Doom 1 would not be much bigger than the weapon sprites for SS1 if they weren't missing anything other than the tip.

[6744016bcae87ZylonBane]

They are placed at the bottom of the rendered first-person view in both games. In Doom and SS1 fullscreen mode that's the bottom of the screen. In Doom and SS1 non-fullscreen mode that's just above the HUD. Same in both games.

But nooooo, they "look nothing alike," apparently. Nothing. Alike.

[6744016bcb20blastonearound]

Dude,

https://cdn.themis-media.com/media/global/images/library/deriv/974/974190.png
https://www.mobygames.com/images/promo/original/1472151907-1765476366.jpg

With or without hud, SS1 weapons look like this, you specifically picked that melee weapon because it is literally the only weapon that's most visible in that game. As you can see, any other weapon is barely even there.

Meanwhile even with the hud, this is what you get with Doom:
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--3_C92FT---/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/kdqpw1m65gjb9emtx1he.jpg
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/doom/images/4/43/Meet_shotguy.png/

And also you get screens like these which isn't even present in SS1:
https://img.fireden.net/v/image/1491/68/1491680101752.png

And there is even more of it without it. You specifically picked that weapon for Doom 1 because it is one of the least visible weapons and even that blows any weapon SS1 has out of the park. (placement wise at least)

https://ip.trueachievements.com/remote/download.xbox.com/content/images/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d80258410824/1033/screenlg1.jpg?width=900

The difference is as clear as day, but if you insist on not admitting it, there is nothing more I can say. You do you.