SS2 Community Patch (SCP) Beta 6

[67432803ec030voodoo47]

no more poetry while being cooked.

[67432803ec243tiphares4]

Already noticed this change some time ago, i think it came with beta 5 or so.I forgot where it is played now but it is brilliant choice.

Vanilla trigger location of this message actually always bothered me back then.


It has way more impact whilst playing in a less stressful & cluttered situation.

[67432803ec3bdZylonBane]

There is no brilliant choice. In vanilla Shock that message had multiple triggers. In SCP one of the vanilla triggers was removed and the other vanilla trigger was left unchanged.

[67432803ec49ctiphares4]

:l

[67432803ec818JDoran]

Are you calling forum posts "web pages"?

Yep, sorry for any confusion caused.

And are you seriously suggesting that people delete the dev threads from Engineering when a project is released as a completed mod?

I just thought the older threads might prove confusing sometimes. If not, then great.

[67432803ec9d6JDoran]

Can someone cast an eye over my mod setup, please, and see if there are any problems or incompatibilities, or recommended things I should add.

I've also included my fan mission list, are there any that should be removed, or others that should be added.

And is RoSodude's Rebalanced Skills and Disciplines v2.03 still incompatible, please?

Thanks.

[67432803ecb72ZylonBane]

Distinguishable Implants has been obsolete since SCP Beta 5.

Med 2 Forcefield Rehack very likely has been broken since SCP Beta 5.

What on god's green earth is "SCP b6 (NOT Secmod 3 compat)"?

[67432803ecebbsarge945]

Yeah I've never heard of SCP b6 either.

Also, just a reminder that you shouldn't ever use Randomiser - Full and Randomiser - Light at the same time, so you should probably delete one of them.

I think you're the only person on the planet who doesn't use the AIO version of Coloured Laser Rapiers

[67432803ed452JDoran]

Distinguishable Implants has been obsolete since SCP Beta 5.

OK, thanks. I will delete it.

Med 2 Forcefield Rehack very likely has been broken since SCP Beta 5.

OK, I will delete it, thanks.

What on god's green earth is "SCP b6 (NOT Secmod 3 compat)"?

Shock 2 Community Patch Beta 6. I thought all versions of SCP were incompatible with Secmod?

Also, just a reminder that you shouldn't ever use Randomiser - Full and Randomiser - Light at the same time, so you should probably delete one of them.

I know. I just installed them all, so if I wanted to use one of them (and only one at a time of course) then it was immediately available.

I think you're the only person on the planet who doesn't use the AIO version of Coloured Laser Rapiers

I will try the version you mention, thanks.

[67432803ed82fZylonBane]

I thought all versions of SCP were incompatible with Secmod?

That is true, in much the same sense that Team Fortress 2 and Portal are "incompatible." SCP and SecMod are both complete map and gamesys replacements to the base game, so it's nonsensical to consider even the notion of compatibility between them.

So someone going so far as to rename SCP to remind themself of this logical impossibility is... bizarre.

[67432803edaf3sarge945]

Distinguishable Implants has been obsolete since SCP Beta 5.

This isn't entirely true, since Distinguishable Implants uses a different colour scheme from SCP, but for the average player they probably just want to use SCP.

[67432803edceeSines]

That change document on SCP is pretty huge. It mentions some gameplay changes to try to balance things. What are peoples general opinion of it, and is there a simple place to summarize what was changed and how? I can read the change log, but I'd have to read over the entire thing and changes to a weapon or skill might be in several different places, and some summaries are pretty vague (the AR being noted as made weaker, without any numbers) Given how many weapons have invisible stats (damage and damage modifiers in particular) it might not be easy to spot, and as I prefer to play on Impossible, I don't have too much wiggle room if I want to get a weapon skill up to 6.

I saw that Grenade Launcher odd got buffed? Now it doesn't even need Modification 1 to do massive damage. I figure it'd have it's Modify 1 damage toned down to just 10% like everything else and so it wouldn't be such an absurdly good weapon. That seemed like an odd choice to me.

I also saw the Wormskin Armor and OS Station 4 got moved up so you could spend more time with them. Any changes like that to other weapons? Laser Pistol always struck me as coming WAY too late given what it's for.

[67432803ee1afZylonBane]

I can read the change log, but I'd have to read over the entire thing and changes to a weapon or skill might be in several different places

They aren't. All changes to weapons and OS upgrades are summarized in the "Weapon Changes" and "OS Upgrade Changes" sections of the readme.

some summaries are pretty vague (the AR being noted as made weaker, without any numbers)

All stat changes are noted explicitly. For example, the AR entry is:

Code: [Select]

Assault Rifle
- Repair skill minimum requirement decreased from 4 to 3.
- Degrade rate increased from 0.5 to 0.65.
- Base damage for all ammo types reduced from 10 to 8.

I saw that Grenade Launcher odd got buffed? Now it doesn't even need Modification 1 to do massive damage. I figure it'd have it's Modify 1 damage toned down to just 10%

Dude, have you even looked at the SCP documentation since Beta 5?

Code: [Select]

Grenade Launcher
- Fixed modification level 1 giving a 100% damage bonus. Now gives a 10% damage bonus,
  just like all the other weapons. To compensate for this, the base damage multiplier
  has been increased so the fully modded damage output is about the same as before.

[67432803ee633Sines]

Oh gosh darn it, that's stupid of me. Must have gotten distracted or something. My bad.

As far as the Grenade Launcher goes though, the entry says it does the same damage it did before, but the first Mod now does 10%. What I mean when I say it got buffed is that you don't need the Modification to do massive damage. It just does that without it. Now you don't need to buy Modify 1 or use up a precious FE Device to get that damage. Part of the reason I went looking for mods in the first place was because I thought the GL was too powerful, and wanted something that would make me feel like I wasn't cheating when using it. I'm actually curious, did the devs ever mention that they intended it to be that powerful, and didn't realized they broke the base damage because they tried it out with Modify 1 instead?

[67432803ee76cZylonBane]

The grenade launcher never does "massive" damage. Most mid-tier and higher enemies require multiple grenades to kill unless you've taken every mod and upgrade available to increase its damage. In vanilla SS1 the un-modded grenade launcher is basically useless.

[67432803ee898Sines]

Was it? Hrm... it's been literal years since I've used it, and even longer since I used it on a Rumbler or Psi Reaver. So maybe my memory is just really bad.

Welp, I'm embarrassing myself, so I think I'll just stop for now before I say more silly things.

[67432803efc15sarge945]

If you're used to playing on Impossible and care about gameplay, balance, etc, you should wait for RSD to be updated, it changes a lot (including making the Grenade Launcher the second-tier weapon in Heavy and rebalancing it) and reverts many of SCP's more questionable gameplay changes (like the unpowered power armour protection). I don't know if @RoSoDude is going to update it anytime soon, though.

Laser Pistol always struck me as coming WAY too late given what it's for.

Do a Marine career and select +1 Energy Weapons, so you start with the laser pistol.

[67432803efd95ZylonBane]

Sheesh, unpowered powered armor only provides 10% protection in SCP, less than even light armor. Providing 0% protection when unpowered would be nonsensical, since it still physically exists around your body.

RSD makes some questionable changes itself, like giving worm piles higher defense than rumblers.

[67432803f01f5Sines]

Do a Marine career and select +1 Energy Weapons, so you start with the laser pistol.

Oh I know about that, and I've done it before some times. But without that, you don't get a broken one until midway through Engineering, and a working one in Hydroponics. The working grenade launcher doesn't come any sooner, but a broken one is found halfway through Med/Sci. Basically the only reason I ever go for a Marine start over Navy or OSA is just because I want the Laser Pistol early.

And I'm a bit partial to the PSI/Energy build, so a Marine start is a bit awkward. Doing one with this patch (and some graphical ones) right now, mostly just running by every turret or bot I can, because I went OSA start, and whittling them down with Cryokinesis just ain't worth the effort. If there weren't enough AP Rounds on Med/Sci to be able to take down most (if not all) of the hard targets, I'd get the delay, but it just struck me as one of those little things that make the base game pistol feel so fantastic due to it's availability.

Not a big deal or anything, but with things being moved around sooner, I'd stick a broken Laser Pistol on Med/Sci (maybe next to the turret guarded charging machine to teach the players about how rechargers work for things besides mission objectives. Throws in an earlier reason to get Repair too) and a working one in place of the broken one on Engineering.

Ah well, kinda having fun running past all the turrets and bots while I work my way up to the broken one in Engineering. And I was going to pick up Repair to keep an EMP Rifle running without Maintenance 6 anyway.

[67432803f0385sarge945]

So you didn't take repair, didn't pick the marine start, and now you're complaining that you can't get an early laser pistol because you specifically made the worst possible build for getting it?

This is partially why I recommend RSD. One of the biggest issues in the game is that the second-tier Standard weapon (the shotgun) is available much earlier than a working first-tier weapon for both heavy and energy.

RSD makes a few changes here which you might like (and I'd recommend SCP to break the shotgun available in the hidey-hole in medsci2 as well), as well as making repair more useful and worth picking up, since repairing batteries is very useful for an energy player.

[67432803f05e2Sines]

I am taking repair, so I'll have the Engineering one shortly. And I agree that it's odd that a working shotgun is available halfway through Med/Sci when the broken laser pistol isn't available until halfway through Engineering. Especially since you get a broken Grenade Launcher before the Shotgun (Albeit, not by much), and I'd consider the GL much more powerful than the Laser Pistol (though very limited by ammo at that point). That's all I'm saying. I know you can get it earlier with Marine start, but I think a broken one should be available in Med/Sci just like the Grenade Launcher. It would also make repair a bit better when it's good for getting both of those weapons early.

I just don't think the Laser Pistol needs to be as progress gated as it is. Sure it has advantages over the toughest enemies at that point in the game, but so does AP Rounds in the Pistol. Yes, it's 'unlimited' ammo is a big strength, but I feel like investing in a weapon type to specialize in bot-fighting should be rewarded with being better than the pistol. That's all together enough that I think, design-wise, it should come sooner in the game. By contrast, if the point of Marine is to have access to early GL or LP, then I'd move back the broken Grenade Launcher (not a fan of this, but it's a thought to consider). And I was only thinking of all this since SCP decided to move OS4 and Worm Skin armor earlier into the game (Which I think are overall good ideas, even though I was never bothered with the late OS4). Without a Marine start, the Laser Pistol loses some of it's best spots to be really handy, just like it's hard to get excited about the Worm Skin armor for pretty much just The Body of the Many. Though obviously the LP having one option to be obtained early is a big difference.

Out of curiosity, if that Shotgun is broken, where's the first unbroken one for people not using Repair? I think there's a working one in the nacelles in Engineering? That would match up with the placement of the Laser Rapier, the 2nd Tier 2 weapon you get.

[67432803f0749sarge945]

Honestly, I'd be okay with an earlier broken laser pistol. Maybe in one of the apartments in medsci2. Getting the basic tier weapon after the rest makes no sense.

@RoSoDude consider this a RSD feature suggestion.

I think the first non-broken shotgun is either the one in r&d (can't remember if it's broken or not), or one in engineering somewhere. I think it's either in cargo bays or command control. Is there a working one in front of the door to fluidics control?

[67432803f087cvoodoo47]

first working shotgun is on medsci2 in the secret area near Watts' office, next one is on medsci1 in the area with a charging station close to Watts.

I was thinking about moving the broken laspistol to the start of eng2, but ultimately decided against it. maybe I should rethink this. either way, minimodding this is trivial, so I'll do that tomorrow I guess.

[67432803f0c6dtiphares4]

I was thinking about moving the broken laspistol to the start of eng2, but ultimately decided against it. maybe I should rethink this. either way, minimodding this is trivial, so I'll do that tomorrow I guess.

It is the same thing i was thinking through for several time.. It would be perfect imo to place a Lasgun/Apollo H4 Argon-Suspension Laser Pistol® already in the very first room of engineering when entering by ladder through med/sci maintenance shaft.

Imo it would feel just right & first appearance in vanilla is way too late as well (like stasis field generator etc. it would be fine if this was also addressed by the rosodude in RSD or whatever that mod is called if it isn't is already..).

Maybe even some change to the description text of Lasergun to implicate that it could be also used as some sort of welding device in-universe? So it would make more sense/seem more natural having them lying around in engineering & it would maybe explain why it's relatively weak compared to all those ballistic weapons + it would give more immersion.. :3

By the way..

It would be nice to have the coherent laserbeam integrated in SPC or having it at least available to the public as a less occluded minimod in its own thread imo:

https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=11710.msg139566;topicseen#new