SS2 subtitles

[6742a9860dbfdunn_atropos]

Did you use french beta?
If there are some incomprehensible words, you should look here.

[6742a9860e0a8Marvin]

hello ZylonBane
i'm new here.
i want to carry on french translation.
actually i m working on vCs and vTriggers audio files.
actually finished  (exept some missing or incomprehensive words) vCs wav to SRT files in english.(timed)
working on vTriggers audio files. exept xerxes , everything is translated to french.(timed)
converted french mails and logs files to SUB file (not timed)

i need some help for theses missing/incomprehensible words, and help you if you want.

i can post srt files here.

I think it would be best if the English subtitles were done first and the rest followed the exact same schemes.

[6742a9860e393ZylonBane]

Something I've been struggling with is deciding on a consistent way to break up lines. Going by the simple rule of one subtitle per sentence doesn't work very well. For example, there's the problem of very short sentences:

"Please, don't do it to me."
"Please don't."
"I won't tell."
"I won't."

vs

"Please, don't do it to me. Please don't."
"I won't tell. I won't."

And then there's the problem of very long sentences:

"My analysis of historical data suggests a 97.34% probability that you are aware of my birth on your planet, and my rebirth into beauty on Citadel Station."

vs.

"My analysis of historical data suggests a 97.34% probability"
"that you are aware of my birth on your planet,"
"and my rebirth into beauty on Citadel Station."

It's annoying not having a consistent ruleset to go by for this sort of thing. There are conflicting priorities here-- keeping the text in sync with the audio, giving the reader complete sentences, and not forcing the reader's attention to switch between the text and the picture too often.

[6742a9860e4d3Marvin]

Are the subtitles stretched throughout the whole width of the window or are they displayed in a much smaller box whose width determines when a line break occurs?
The perfect solution, if possible, would be to define the box width as 62% of the screen, let the sentences break there and try help with additional line breaks if the synch is completely off at common window sizes (Full HD?).

There is no perfect solution so I would try to synch the texts manually by testing every sentence, otherwise.

[6742a9860e889Olfred]

To break or not to break small sentences depends on the speech.
If there is a break in speech, do a new sentence, if there is no break, then don't.
I don't know the which voice sample it is right now, but I would guess first example would be the good one.

On the second, do the break on the commata. Breaking a sentence somewhere at mid just gives you reading hickups.

[6742a9860ea9fMooztik]

@unn_atropos : ignore it . reused text from audiologs from the website

@Marvin : i'm ok with you. currently redoing timing with english text

about consistencies and best rythm of sub texts, i think it depend of the rythm of the audio.
for exemple, text from a ghost with short lines, with blanks.
CS0401

1
00:00:00,673 --> 00:00:01,666
not me !

2
00:00:01,786 --> 00:00:02,839
no way !

3
00:00:03,241 --> 00:00:04,674
they not get me.

4
00:00:04,997 --> 00:00:06,522
they not achieve me.

5
00:00:07,289 --> 00:00:08,251
Rachel ?

6
00:00:08,454 --> 00:00:09,580
kids.

7
00:00:10,167 --> 00:00:11,366
i'm sorry.

or more consistent text:
CS0909

1
00:00:02,182 --> 00:00:03,230
remember

2
00:00:03,350 --> 00:00:06,781
that it is my will that guided your here

3
00:00:06,901 --> 00:00:08,345
it is my will

4
00:00:08,384 --> 00:00:12,130
that gave you your cybernetic implants

5
00:00:12,250 --> 00:00:17,188
the only beauty in that meat you call a body

6
00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,898
if you value that meat

7
00:00:21,555 --> 00:00:24,315
you will do as I tell you

shorter sentences = simpler way to read the text. i think.

[6742a9860ebf0Marvin]

Did you use Google translator to translate back from french?!
I would think both of these examples are already chopped into too many pieces. It's easy to get a precise synchronization with those but you need some time to read the line, maybe orient yourself in the game at the same moment, and try to understand it. Subtitles for only 2 seconds won't do you much good.

As I said, when it comes to other translations, I'd wait for ZB to finish the project first, work out some of the inevitable problems together, set up guidelines for other translations and THEN do them.

[6742a9860ed5cMooztik]

no, not used google translate. mainly from audiologs webpage, french beta 10 mod, and myself for Vcs who are not actually translated.

tested some Polito subs. (in french).synched breaks with audio breaks & pauses. (coma, dot. repetition, long pause)
submited to a friend to have another opinion.

long lines break the player's game. stop moving/playing to read it. (take approximatively the same time to go to emails in PDA and read them.
short ones need less concentration (2 at 3 seconds each line) to read them. more easy to follow.
my friend asked me to remove the caracter's name, pointless because we already know who's speaking

french lines are often longer than english ones.

but @Marvin, you're right, no need to rush.
i think i'll do the missing translations in french, and wait for the subs.

[6742a9860eebdZylonBane]

Here's an alpha snapshot of my current progress. This contains complete subtitles for all AIs, ambient speech, cutscenes, devices, status messages, training briefings, and voiceovers. It does not contain subtitles for emails or logs. Doing the emails would be about as much work as everything else put together, and I'm not sure if logs will ever get done. Not as much use for them since you can just go read them.

Anyway, thanks to unn_atropos's site for saving me a lot of typing. Though this isn't complete, it does at least provide a transcription of all the English speech that wasn't already officially transcribed in the log and email text. I'm confident in its accuracy (some of them were tricky to figure out), so it should serve as a good base for translation projects.

EDIT: Deleted download.

[6742a9860efb0ZylonBane]

BTW, if anyone knows how to re-encode an existing antialiased font as the kind of AA font that allows recoloring, that would be very helpful. I can't stand the look of subtitles in SS2 using the non-AA fonts.

[6742a9860f10eKolya]

Apparently New Dark allows you to select a custom font (or so says subtitles.txt). So I guess you could just use another font if the current one doesn't support colouring. (Is that really a property of the fonttype?) 
Where is the font you want to get converted?

[6742a9860f1feZylonBane]

The recommended subtitle config I supply in the readme already specifies the font I prefer to use. It does not support coloring. The only fonts included with SS2 that do support coloring are either non-AA fonts, or AA but huge.

[6742a9860f2cbOlfred]

But you can add new fonts?

[6742a9860f398ZylonBane]

Of course. They're resource files, just like sounds and textures.

[6742a9860f497Olfred]

I can't check right now but I would guess you need a full vectorized font (which any good font should be but sadly isn't).

So when you have a font which is bitmap based you need to vectorize it and then use some font tool to create a new one.

Or just look for some similar looking which is vector based.

[6742a9860f5d0ZylonBane]

I've used the Dark font creation tools before (that's how I made the improved SHTUP fonts). It's tedious but not difficult. However, apparently NewDark updated them and I haven't really kept up with the changes.

[6742a9860f94dunn_atropos]

Anyway, thanks to unn_atropos's site for saving me a lot of typing.

Thanks, but I have to clarify that it is AT-HEs site.

Thanks for the alpha. Can't wait to work on the german subtitels!

[6742a9860fa3dOlfred]

I've just looked into it. Apparently you can only use bitmap based fonts which seems to also be some proprietary format.
NewDark notes mention they changed it to use the full 8 bit. But I don't know if they provided any tools for creating fonts.

[6742a9860fc61Marvin]

Thanks for the alpha. Can't wait to work on the german subtitels!

Count me in. If you've already begun work and want to delegate, you could open a thread elsewhere and we can figure out who's doing what.

[6742a9860fd95Marvin]

ZB: If this uses the usual SS2 fonts, then I assume the subtitle files have to be encoded in OEM850 to display German umlauts and special characters, correct? Or can NewDark handle Unicode somehow?

Also, when does this trigger in-game:

Code: [Select]

type "convo"
descr "Delacroix"
sub trg0601 { text "Beware, mon petit. You cannot trust... [dies]" }I don't remember that line. Whenever I find Delacroix, she's long gone and silent. And that's not the only unused sound it seems.

[6742a98610093ZylonBane]

All font files apparently use ANSI encoding, whatever that is.

Also, when does this trigger in-game:
... And that's not the only unused sound it seems.

Looks like you answered your own question there. And yes, unused sounds are subtitled, because it's always possible an FM might use them.

[6742a986101cbZylonBane]

This isn't strictly caption-related, but I've noticed there are some "ambush" sounds for some of the AIs. I'm guessing these are supposed to play when you attack an unalerted AI, but I can't get it to happen. For example, these are the ambush lines for the hybrids:

The Many protects us!
Who strikes us?
Who hurts us?
Discord!
We do not fall!

Anyone ever heard these?

[6742a9861046aMarvin]

All font files apparently use ANSI encoding, whatever that is.

Nah, it's probably still OEM850 then. You wouldn't notice in an English version because practically all encodings use US-ASCII for the first 128 characters.

Looks like you answered your own question there. And yes, unused sounds are subtitled, because it's always possible an FM might use them.

Oh, okay.

Concerning your other question: "Discord!" seems familiar but that's probably only me misremembering the "Silence the discord" line. The rest I definitely never heard, a shame.

[6742a98610618Marvin]

Hey, ZB, currently working on the German subtitles and I was wondering if you're still considering adding subtitles for all the other AI's nonverbal sounds such as the rumbler. The reaver sounds for example are sometimes even intelligble as many were processed similar to the haunt sounds in Thief. If you don't plan to, can you give a reason why?

When I'm finished I'll probably send some corrected versions of your English ones. You sometimes forgot to remove the stutter, punctuation is wrong in some cases and so on.