SCP Beta 2 Issue Reporting

[6741146715f96Marvin]

Wouldn't you clip into it, then?

[67411467162d3ZylonBane]

Well I could change the energy recharge station to have a bounding box which is only around the "energy slot".

Not necessary. In this case we just need to set those grates to block frobbing, and possibly shrink down the recharger's physics box so it's not as tall.

[6741146716465System Shocked]

It's sad to see that there's a focused concern about this issue that was previously reported in one of my feedback reports AFTER the release of SCP Beta 1, and that it wasn't fixed and still exists in SCP Beta 2. Okay, I've submitted A LOT of feedback reports, and it might have been missed, BUT c'mon Devs, there needs to be more thoroughness in fixing the feedback that you receive. From several suggestions, it appears that this issue could have been fixed already by now.

[6741146716a83Olfred]

Wouldn't you clip into it, then?

No, everything just fine. See the attached model (just a quick testmodel, nothing good)

Maybe when you insert it as a new Object into the game, but as replacement it keeps the original physic dimension.

[...] sad to see [...] that it wasn't fixed [...]

this is pretty much "we know, but they would be pita to fix, and they are kind of cute, so whatever" sort of thing.

Read the thread before you start crying.

When you work on something like SCP you have to sort all issues with a priority. Only because it wasn't fixed (yet) it doesn't necessarily mean that it got unnoticed. Some stuff might even be shrugged off as not being worth the work.
Only because there is discussion about it now there is no guarentee that it will actually get fixed.

[6741146716d65ZylonBane]

Okay, I've submitted A LOT of feedback reports, and it might have been missed, BUT c'mon Devs, there needs to be more thoroughness in fixing the feedback that you receive.

Remember all the many, many times you've been told that we'd pay more attention to your reports if you limited them to actual bugs and left out all the "this isn't exactly how I would have done it therefore it's wrong!" blather?

No, of course you don't remember that.

[6741146716eb5voodoo47]

also, reporting something does not automatically guarantee a fix.

[67411467170f6System Shocked]

Hey, SCP Devs, the most important aspect of the detailed feedback reports that I, and others, have provided to you is issues that can be easily identified as either fixable or non-fixable problems. I recognize that we're dealing with game levels where the basic usually expected access/changes may or may not be available, because the present state of data for some specific maps/levels isn't fully accessible. "stripped" or "un-stripped" levels have different accessibility to what can and can't be changed, which means that many changes to "stripped" non-accessible levels can't be easily accomplished and/or modified. Some issues in my feedback reports were reported for "stripped" non-accessible levels and could not be addressed. However, certain abilities/tricks available to the SCP Devs allowed them to be fix/correct some reported in for SCP Beta 1, that one would expect could not be fixed. Nevertheless, some were fixable due to the "magical" talents of the SCP Devs.

I expect/hope that the SCP Devs will continue to work towards correcting level design changes/inconsistencies to adopt and focus on level design inconsistencies - repositioning existing light fixtures to match other instances, adding additional light fixtures (lit or unlit) to match other instances,

I'm not going to enter into the domain of game balancing issues and such here. I'll leave that to the more experienced peoples within the field. I will soon submit my detailed feedback reports, which have included obvious problems within SCP Beta 1, in hopes that their restatement will result in their resolution/termination, if doable. Sadly, don't re-review my previous SCP Beta 1 feedback reports. In all likelihood, whatever was not fixed in the release of SCP Beta 2 still needs to be fixed in SCP Beta 2. exists Please thoroughly review my previous submissions.old existing issues yet to be addressed and newly discovered problems within the release of SCP Beta 2, that identifies issues that haven't or still need to be fixed.

My feedback reports for SCP Beta 2 will soon be posted. Please give them the importance that they deserve. These issues may not be reported again in the future so please take note of them NOW, to avoid them being forgotten, missed or overlooked!

[67411467171c5ZylonBane]

TL;DR

[67411467173a9voodoo47]

please refer to the very last section of the SCP readme.

..also, it's STRIPPED/UNSTRIPPED.

[6741146717489Marvin]

Was beta2 already updated with some bugfixes (wrong requirement for shotgun)?

[6741146717557voodoo47]

no - a potential bugfix will be announced.

[6741146717b1eSystem Shocked]

Read the thread before you start crying.

When you work on something like SCP you have to sort all issues with a priority. Only because it wasn't fixed (yet) it doesn't necessarily mean that it got unnoticed. Some stuff might even be shrugged off as not being worth the work.
Only because there is discussion about it now there is no guarentee that it will actually get fixed.

This isn't a case of myself "crying". Full marks to forum member Fred for also reporting this issue. My post was to highlight an instance where an issue had already been reported a while ago and nothing was done, yet after the same issue was reported again by another individual, there's various dialogue now on how to fix this issue.

Remember all the many, many times you've been told that we'd pay more attention to your reports if you limited them to actual bugs and left out all the "this isn't exactly how I would have done it therefore it's wrong!" blather?

No, of course you don't remember that.

I DO remember, but I can't accept your narrow-minded viewpoint, that hinders the progressive advancement/improvements towards the SCP improvement project. A "community patch" should encompass all reported issues from the community, including those not recognized or discovered by the SCP Devs. Prior to the release of SCP Beta1, I submitted problems within SS2 that should be fixed before the release of SCP Beta 1. What was and wasn't, I can't say.

ZylonBane, in your view, I'm a black-sheep and not worthy of any of your attention/consideration concerning improvements towards the SCP project. ALL of my recent dozen playthroughs have been to identify the remaining issues within SS2, legitimate or suggested. More noticeable shit still needs to be fixed, so that SS2 is as beautiful and consistent throughout as it can be. Rather, consider me as what I am, an honest no-holds-barred reporter. 

My soon-to-be-released SCP Beta 2 feedback reports will continue to ID both legitimate and suggested/inconsistency issues that need fixing, some for the second and third times, which still need fixing, assuming they can be.

==================================================

Hey SS2 community, my ongoing DEEP efforts towards improving SS2 has been to provide obvious fixes and inconsistencies towards SS2 Beta 1, and those still yet to be addressed in SCP Beta 2. Not all can be due to restrictions in accessing fixes for certain levels. 

[6741146717c66voodoo47]

BUT! you need to accept that some things are not going to get fixed modified no matter how many times you report them - for example, I'm not going to redo all the eng2 corridor texturing just because you think the floor texture should be moved by 0.2 EU (Editor Units).


we should really set a up a simple bugtracker.

[6741146717d3eOlfred]

IIRC mantis was easy to set up and use.
Probably not the best, but easy.

[674114671810eSystem Shocked]

BUT! you need to accept that some things are not going to get fixed modified no matter how many times you report them - for example, I'm not going to redo all the eng2 corridor texturing just because you think the floor texture should be moved by 0.2 EU (Editor Units).

OK, so you're not prepared to redo eng2 corridor texturing now (too busy, don't care, etc.) - will there be a time later on when you will, when time permits, after most all else has been fixed? Provided there's little going on presently, why not fix it now and be done with it? It's your call if you feel that a change isn't merited, but how can you not effect changes now when you know that it exists and that it's fixable? This is where potentially legit issues are reported now, but get sidelined and forgotten later on, and results in a missed opportunity.

Sorry voodoo47, but it's difficult for an issue submitter to determine if and/or when similar items will and won't be fixed.

To put the minds of SS2 issue submitters more at ease, what mechanics/procedures are in place or followed to ensure that reported problems are given equal consideration, and that they don't fall through the cracks, especially if they are set aside temporarily for a period of time?

I'm not blowing my own horn here, but it's unlikely that anyone else is going to provide you with the amount of feedback that I have. It's one thing dealing with issues within the "unstripped" levels, which are fully editable. However, just as important are issues, whether legit or suggested, pertaining to the few "stripped" levels, which aren't fully editable at present. How are the issues that can't be implemented now, cataloged/collected for possible implementation at a later date? This can't be left to someones memory, as to what needs fixing in the future, especially when current "stripped" levels become "unstripped".     

[67411467184edvoodoo47]

that's why I'm talking about a bugtracker, where each submitted thing could be commented ("fixed in beta4", "later", "when hell freezes over" etc). my current way of validating your reports is having a good look at the screenshot without reading the description, and if I can see it, then it's 90% fix, if I can't, 90% no fix. with a sidenote of that object are easy to fix, texturing is a pita, and brushes are not to be touched unless absolutely, and I mean absolutely necessary.

also;

there's little going on presently

...

[6741146718616System Shocked]

I imagined you having less of a pumpkin-head and more hair, but I imagine that the SCP project can ravage ones appearance.

And please give me details and examples of "brushes that are not to be touched, unless absolutely necessary".

[67411467186dcMarvin]

Oh Lord, it's getting better and better.

[6741146718a26RocketMan]

Jesus Christ man, you talk like some corporate director reprimanding his department for poor performance.  If you don't like how this mod is meeting your Microsoft Project deliverables and deadlines, go create your own parallel thread, where you can do/hire the work yourself and stop harassing everybody else, who seems to "get it" and work harmoniously with each other.  We're not here to bend to your every whim, whether it makes 110% sense or not.  It's just a forum with a bunch of guys doing some stuff they enjoy, for the benefit of themselves and others.  They don't work for you so if you try to assume that level of authority, you're going to achieve nothing more than alienation.

You belong in a goddamn Dilbert comic.

[6741146718d7fJML]

[...]
And please give me details and examples of "brushes that are not to be touched, unless absolutely necessary".

I think voodoo47 is talking about texturing (pita = pain in the ass), and most likely also about the spirit of SCP of not wanting to alter the original developers idea. Changing textures can alter quite a lot of the look (!). Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also: Even tho it's a nice amusement to sit and read these conversations, please don't piss off these guys too much. You heard his way of validating your reports. Improve upon it, then it should be more clear what can be done and will be done.

Also: Please take into consideration learning the basics of modding. 1. you will be able to more easily tell what can be fixed and submit better reports.
2. You'll be able to make your own modifications as side mods to SCP that can be installed optional. (The things that don't make it into SCP because they decide against it.)

From my point of view, there is a lot happening, and I'm excited of the outcome of the hybrid-shotgun topic.

[6741146718e84voodoo47]

brushes are the level architecture.

also, I'm pretty much unpissable (I simply don't care how much stupid is going on), and ZB already hates him, so whatever.

[6741146718fd0System Shocked]

That's what we're striving for.

Establishing more of a safety net towards collecting and eliminating reported issues from falling to the wayside can only be a good thing, for everyone concerned. It better ensures that feedback issues, whether legit or suggested, are gathered/sorted as soon as they are submitted, which eliminates the fear/need of having to possibly report the same issue a second time at a later date.

In my case, I dislike having to repeatedly play SS2 in an "issue collecting" mode. Unfortunately, legit issues reported for SCP Beta 1 still exist in SCP Beta 2. I can only hope that a workable bug tracker will eliminate the future need to report issues in SCP Beta 3, that were already reported for SCP Beta 1 and/or SCP Beta 2.

[674114671925evoodoo47]

I dislike having to repeatedly play SS2 in an "issue collecting" mode.

I find that hard to believe.

[6741146719473System Shocked]

I find that hard to believe.

Once in a while is okay, but repeatedly, isn't so much fun.