System Shock remake and System Shock 3

[6742a631a8ecb[r4]]

Supposedly some concept art and a bit of info:
http://www.polygon.com/2015/11/25/9801434/system-shock-remake-first-look-art

[6742a631a918eunn_atropos]

Hm...

[6742a631a93adMarvin]

That looks really, really terrible.

[6742a631a9512Hikari]

Two questions:

Who are they getting to do this

How mod friendly will the remake be?

The textures frankly look like filtered upscaled versions of the original but *SHRUG* I don't mind that so much as long as the game is playable and is fairly true to the original.

[6742a631a9796Join2]

That looks really, really terrible.

For what reason? Considering that the level geometry is still so simplistic in the concept art I think that's a pretty damn good job making it look good. Sure it looks very weird, but System Shock has always looked very weird and that translates over quite well here.

[6742a631a999aJDoran]

Based on those few examples, I like the look. I'm not saying that I will (or won't) like the whole game done like that, but I do think that it looks like a good compromise between the old graphics and a higher detailed version of a functioning but troubled environment.

I do hope that they 'remake' System Shock 2 as well as one, and don't dumb down or otherwise worsen either version (just improve the graphics and maybe streamline the controls and other minor issues) as even though to us fans that won't mean too much (but would still be nice), it is true that better looking versions of the game would attract more players, and having these two games on consoles as well as the PC would be really good.

[6742a631a9c6cJoin2]

I do hope that they 'remake' System Shock 2 as well as one

No. SS2 is a timeless masterpiece. SS1's Controls, engine, extremely low-res textures and simplistic geometry make it prime remake material if done faithfully. SS2 can be improved, but we've got mods for that & I do not desire a remake for it. It will forever stand the test of time, when the same cannot be said of SS1.

[6742a631a9ea6voodoo47]

That looks really, really terrible.

they are fake, most probably.

[6742a631aa257RocketMan]

No. SS2 is a timeless masterpiece. SS1's Controls, engine, extremely low-res textures and simplistic geometry make it prime remake material if done faithfully. SS2 can be improved, but we've got mods for that & I do not desire a remake for it. It will forever stand the test of time, when the same cannot be said of SS1.

I suppose by your logic we ought to go back and remake Terminator 1 because it lacked the cool CG and photo-realism that Terminator 2 had.  While we're at it, let's trash all the silent pictures and black and whites and redo them so they all look like modern day movies.  They certainly could use the improvement and aren't the "timeless masterpieces" that we produced years later.

One could easily argue that SS1 is a superior game both technically and in terms of legacy and player impression.  The fact that you fail to frame things from the perspective of the era in which they were created or consider player demographics, is your limitation, not that of the game itself.  Just because you can update something, doesn't mean you're going to add value to it by doing so.  Quite often the opposite is true, as expectations are high and by changing the game you run the extremely high risk of destroying the feel that most people attach to their nostalgia.  What you call bad controls and shitty graphics, I call an epoch of gaming history that was innovative and content-rich.  If anything is a timeless masterpiece, it is that which you remember with fondness, despite the passage of time because such experiences are a tie to the past and provide a sense of continuity in a person's life, which is something you can never "update".

[6742a631aa75fJoin2]

I suppose by your logic we ought to go back and remake Terminator 1 because it lacked the cool CG and photo-realism that Terminator 2 had.  While we're at it, let's trash all the silent pictures and black and whites and redo them so they all look like modern day movies.  They certainly could use the improvement and aren't the "timeless masterpieces" that we produced years later.

One could easily argue that SS1 is a superior game both technically and in terms of legacy and player impression.  The fact that you fail to frame things from the perspective of the era in which they were created or consider player demographics, is your limitation, not that of the game itself.  Just because you can update something, doesn't mean you're going to add value to it by doing so.  Quite often the opposite is true, as expectations are high and by changing the game you run the extremely high risk of destroying the feel that most people attach to their nostalgia.  What you call bad controls and shitty graphics, I call an epoch of gaming history that was innovative and content-rich.  If anything is a timeless masterpiece, it is that which you remember with fondness, despite the passage of time because such experiences are a tie to the past and provide a sense of continuity in a person's life, which is something you can never "update".

I do not fail to perceive that SS1 is a fine piece of craft for its time, but 1994 to 1999 is light years in engine and computer hardware advancements.
I should also state that I am happy with SS1 as it stands, but it is the only game in the series that I'd be accepting of a remake and see the point in because of the aforementioned limitations. Controls for one are extremely important, which SSportable fixed and in doing so highlighted how much more enjoyable the experience can be with such an update.

And no, The Terminator does not need a remake and is a timeless masterpiece also. the difference is in those lightyears I mentioned. 1980s to 2015's filmaking have little technical differences, whereas for games the technical evolution has been extremely fast and only now slowing down.

[6742a631ab4a3ZylonBane]

they are fake, most probably.

How can they be fake if Polygon got them directly from Night Dive? 

[6742a631ab59cvoodoo47]

so it seems.

[6742a631abacfMarvin]

For what reason? Considering that the level geometry is still so simplistic in the concept art I think that's a pretty damn good job making it look good. Sure it looks very weird, but System Shock has always looked very weird and that translates over quite well here.

Assuming these are actual in-game screenshots and not concept art made to appear like screenshots, they crammed in almost every horrible "modern" graphics effect imaginable, including the widely beloved chromatic aberration, blur, and bloom on steroids. If this is supposed to simulate Retro-Goggles' disorientation after waking up from months of cryo seep, fine (but why would you show that on the very first shots released if the actual game does not resemble them?), but I for one would be unable to play something like that for an extended period of time.

It also seems as if they're going for an almost 1:1 copy of the original level geometry. Again, okay if you want to start with something memorable and branch out from there but it's clear that the labyrinthine, angular level design was only in part due to a deliberate design style and definitely influenced by the technology available at the time. It's 2015, you can actually make curved geometry now, or model the cryo suite instead of using a flat texture.

Obviously it's way too early to discuss the visual style of the remake in greater detail but since my enthusiasm is already as small as it can possibly get, screenshots like those certainly don't help. They only strengthen my doubt that this project is entirely pointless, anyway.

they are fake, most probably.

How so? Do you know something we don't?

[6742a631abbbbvoodoo47]

no, just tired, and spoke before thinking.

[6742a631abd3aCherno]

Let's not forget that they said earlier that they would need much more funding for a full remake, even though it is happening now... which could just as well mean that they decided to go through with it even though they don't have an AAA budget (hi poly models, normal maps etc. are very expensive to make) and thus count on the fans putting on nostalgia glasses so they can get by with not-quite-state of the art graphics.

[6742a631ac161JDoran]

Anything can be improved (though the better something is, the harder it is to improve it), even System Shock 2. And even the most ardent SS2 fan must admit that the last quarter of the game could do with some rethinking/redesigning to match the rest of the game.

1980s to 2015's filmaking have little technical differences, whereas for games the technical evolution has been extremely fast and only now slowing down.

Seriously? Back in the 80s you mostly had to use animatronic models or stop motion photography for monsters and huge robots and stuff, whereas now you can use computers (and even relatively very cheaply compared to a few years back) to make completely fake scenes that look totally real (assuming the designers and animators are talented enough). Nowadays, a film can have all sorts of disaster scenes, and when you watch it, you can't tell what's real and what is computer generated.

Though personally, I prefer animatronics for stuff like in horror films, as the jerkyness seems to make it more unreal and surreal. Like in the Evil Dead films, it actually adds to the atmosphere, I think.

[6742a631ac2ceJDoran]

I'm dreaming here, I know, but wouldn't it be wonderful if they did make SS1 and SS2 in 'modern' graphics, so that they'd appeal to today's 'It better be graphically gorgeous or I won't buy it" majority, and the games sold very well, and this led to games becoming deeper and more complex, like SS1 and SS2 are, leading to an upturn in the quality of new AAA games.

I'd love to get back to the way I used to feel, when I was looking forward to new game releases. Nowadays, that's very rare, and always tinged with the "It'll probably be dumbed down, and 'compensated' for by having better graphics (whoo-****ing-doo!)" fear.

[6742a631ac5cdJoin2]

are you serious?

Yep. That's one field, CGI, which is merely used to enhance scenes and is a style choice, movies do not have to depend on it by default. In the case of video games, everything is CGI. we've also now got comprehensive, interactive physics, mouselook, hardware that is capable of running much more complexity, and heck, even the emerging VR stuff. By all means the implementation of CGI in movies is significant, but movies have not been evolving at the rate of games and never will, because games are more complex in nature.

[6742a631ac8d9Cherno]

I'm dreaming here, I know, but wouldn't it be wonderful if they did make SS1 and SS2 in 'modern' graphics, so that they'd appeal to today's 'It better be graphically gorgeous or I won't buy it" majority, and the games sold very well, and this led to games becoming deeper and more complex, like SS1 and SS2 are, leading to an upturn in the quality of new AAA games.

I don't know, the budget that would be required for such art would probably mean that the game would be unprofitable if released only on/for PC... which would in turn mean a console port/release, which in turn would mean the kind of "dumbed-down"/simplified controls we have seen and hated so many times It's just how it is these days. I think Skyrim only brought in about 17% of the money from it's PC release, so it's the consoles running things mostly. We better get ready for radial menues and no slot-type inventory for a future release

[6742a631acb89Gawain]

I hope Night Dive is reading this.

Making the levels look blocky is stupid.
Night vision lenses are stupid. Eyes are mutated to receive more photons.
Mutants created by trioptimum for heavy maintenance work is stupid.
Venting steam looks good.
Chromatic aberration is stupid.
That bloom is stupid.
Serve-bot looks stupid. They did in the original too.
Cyborg drone looks very fashionable. Please borgify more. Put some pus exuding where the metal meets the rotting meat. Make that cold reanimated cyborg terrify.

Instead of trying to do a cheap remake do a good remake.
Keep the story. Keep the key characters. Keep the key places. Keep the core game mechanics. Extend the way cyberspace affects the station.
Adjust the gameplay be more suitable for modern controls. SS enchanced is now too fast and easy with mouselook. Part of the feeling and scaryness comes from the added difficulty of the controls.
Make the station look good (SS1 blockiness doesn't look good). Play more Alien: Isolation.
Don't try to woo the fans with visually similar stuff. I'm the biggest fan and I don't want that.
We have seen many advanced shader renditions of the original blocky places for a long time. That doesn't impress anyone.
Those screenshots look really cheap.

I believe the original developers will be pissed of if you do a bad remake. It doesn't have to imitate the original look.
Release the original source code for the fans so that they can make the crappy blocky remake. (And use them to promote yours!)
You can make the good really awesome mind blowing system shock game that everyone wants.

But as always. It all comes to money. If you don't have it, don't try to do it. Release everything about the original and get the love from the community. I promise you won't lose any money if you do so.

[6742a631accc6icemann]

Well with any remake, if you move too far away from the original you run the risk of alienating the target audience.

[6742a631acee5Gawain]

Well with any remake, if you move too far away from the original you run the risk of alienating the target audience.

Absolutely. And some will flip out if the game doesn't look like it was made in space engineers.

[6742a631ad253Kolya]

I hope Night Dive is reading this.

I like how you keep everything in short declarative sentences after this.

[6742a631ad562ZylonBane]

I'm the biggest fan