SS2 minimod: Real Hybrid Shotgun

[674f3f4948de9voodoo47]

//the release versions of the minimod are attached to the SCP, Rebirth and Arcaniac topics.


as mentioned before, the current way of handling the hybrid shotgun (and its one slug) only partially masks, and not resolves the age old problem with the shotgun not being removed from the model once it's looted from the corpse, essentially making the shotgun exist at two places at the same moment. Einstein wouldn't be proud.

I already have a working setup that solves this ready to go, but there is a question of how the (now real) shotgun should act upon the death of its hybrid. two equally valid setups come in mind;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3sSJjR0Zqo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtZJ8xLEpak


//and the mod is up;

this minimod will make all shotgun hybrids wield an actual shotgun, which will be removed off the hybrid's hand once it's been looted from its corpse (solves that weirdness of the shotgun staying on the AI model even though you've taken it). using an actual shotgun object also makes things look nicer (and display the proper shotgun model should a weapon mod be installed as well).

installation:
-load the mod with higher priority than SCP (if used)

there are things you should know about;
-the single slug will be in the hybrid's inventory when running SCP and the supported FMs, and loaded in the hybrid shotgun when running vanilla.
-if running vanilla, the shrunken shotgun may look oddly small when compared to other weapons. load the SS2 Object Shrink mod to remedy this: https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=8282.0 (RealSG needs to have higher priority)

[674f3f49492ebunn_atropos]

I would like to say "both!" (randomized), but I assume that only one version is possible?
If that is so, I would choose the second (classic) version over the "dropping before dead" version.
Though it looks cool and would surely contribute to the atmosphere, it could potentially be annoying (reminding me of overlong dead animations in more recent game).

[674f3f49495d1Olfred]

I vote for second as well. Somehow the first one looks a bit stupid with him dropping it immediately.

[674f3f494971bvoodoo47]

delaying the drop is trivial.

I think randomization would be possible (think something like two shotguns attached to the hybrid, NVscript randomly stimming one, the stimmed one would then have to destroy the other one, and then perform its animation - rigging this in the gamesys would be pure insanity. nuh-uh, not today), but lets just try to pick one for a start.

[674f3f4949998Marvin]

Second is better.

[674f3f4949af7ZylonBane]

Any fix for this (very minor) issue that requires touching every single AI mod for it to not break horribly seems to me to be profoundly bletcherous.

A perfectly simple, self-contained fix would be to make shotguns just not show up as loot.

[674f3f4949bf3Yankee Clipper]

What happens when the corpse fades away? Does the shotgun still disappear, or is the terrain going to be littered with leftover shotguns?

Of the 2 video choices, I like the 2nd.

[674f3f4949f9cvoodoo47]

they get sweeped away upon level reload unless repaired, no change there.

Any fix for this (very minor) issue that requires touching every single AI mod for it to not break horribly seems to me to be profoundly bletcherous.

it's not just the hybrid shotgun - I believe that a (lootable) weapon shouldn't be part of the AI model, and if a detailattach can be made to work reliably, then it IS the way to go (would fix the Rebirth shotgun model bending problem, for example), and getting over the hump is worth it. and adding one more model/texture to Rebirth and Arcaniac pack is really a non-issue, it's not like we have tenths of AI packs floating out there.

if done right, it would also make dynamic weapon swapping very easy (want to change all shotgun hybrids to pistol or grenade launcher hybrids? you are just one dml away). same goes for world object mods - the modified model would be displayed on the AI properly.

also just for the record, the (community preferred) second setup (ripping out the shotty from hybrid's dead clutches) is way trickier than the fist one (drop upon death), so thanks for that, guys.

[674f3f494a194ZylonBane]

If someone wants to do this in their own mod, fine. But imposing it across the board as a required change to every gamesys and shotgun grunt model? I kind of hate that. I kind of hate it a lot. It's using a nuke to kill a fly... that only works on flies that have been modified to be vulnerable to the nuke. Or something. This opposes all good principles of mod interoperabilty. Mods are supposed to play nicely with each other, not shove each other around with "Hey, now YOU all have to change to accommodate ME" demands. Mods like that can fuck off.

[674f3f494a503voodoo47]

at the moment, the questions are, can I make it work reliably? and if I can, will it play nice? once the answer to both question is YES, we can start thinking about whether to implement this as part of SCP, or as a standalone mod, or whatever.

I am almost sure I can make it work properly, and I can already tell that it would improve the visuals. we'll see.

Mods like that can fuck off.

mostly agreed, but sometimes there is just no other way around. Rebirth has already received significant updates to play nice with SCP. also, ALL replacement shotguns had to receive vhots so they would be SCP compatible.

[674f3f494a7a8voodoo47]

ok, and the answer to the first question is "no, because a NVscript update is required to allow proper deployment of real shotguns onto sg hybrids that are already placed around the levels". but with the exception of this bit, things work as they should as far as I can tell, so there is no reason to not let everyone try it out - zips attached to the first post.


notes:
- all sg hybrids that are already placed around the levels will have their hands empty, but they will still function properly (shoot and kill you). type summon_obj OG-Shotgun into the console and hit enter to spawn a proper sg hybrid.
- the broken shotgun is not in the hybrid's inventory anymore (duh), but the single slug is still kept there for now.
- the Rebirth sg hybrid is really nice with this mod, all the weirdness of his original shotgun is resolved in a flash.
- the vanilla sg hybrid not as much, while the real shotgun definitely is a visual improvement, hiding his original shotgun by editing the texture produced a visible hole on the model. not a big deal, but it's noticeable. the good still overweights the bad, I think.


testing has been minimal, so any weirdness/bugs, love/hate, let me know.

//squashed a bug (hybrid shotgun frobability not surviving level change) and reupped the zips. whoever managed to get that one download is recommended to update.

[674f3f494a9b0voodoo47]

with a bit of external help, I have managed to convert everything into a regular dml mod format (new zips attached to the first post). as far as I can tell, everything works properly (checked level transitions, saving and loading, and all the states the sg hybrid can end up in, all looks good).

there are things you should know about though;
-SCP is REQUIRED (a vanilla version might be doable with the setup from the first video, maybe later).
-had to disable the (orig) shotgun fading, there is just no way to synchronize it with everything in a sane way. that means you can litter the levels with broken shotguns if you are hell bent on it. this would probably be a problem with oldDark, but I'm very sure NewDark can take the potential punishment.
-the orig AI model will now have a hole in his hand. fixing this would require a custom sg hybrid model. send booze and hookers to RocketMan.
-tiny, barely noticeable texture artifacts around the place where the orig shotgun was. again, booze and hookers -> RocketMan.
-the hybrid shotgun is a small bit smaller than the player shotgun. pretty sure you wouldn't notice if I didn't mention it here.

now that I have probably managed to scare you away, let me also say this - it looks nice, especially with Rebirth installed. if you like Rebirth, you should definitely try this out. another nice boon is that the hybrids will wield actual Tacticool shotguns if you have the mod installed.


testers are welcome - if nothing bad pops up, I'll move this into the mods subforum later.

[674f3f494ab00KillerBudgie]

I actually like this mod. It makes the Shotgun Hybrid look so much neater. Maybe this should be integrated into Beta 3

[674f3f494abeaZylonBane]

Maybe it shouldn't.

[674f3f494ad10voodoo47]

maybe if I manage to iron out all the rougher parts - currently, I'm not completely satisfied with how things work (while it is an overall improvement, it's not without drawbacks). will definitely need a shotgunless orig AI model for anything more serious than a minimod, if nothing else.

anyway, it should do fine as a standalone mod for the time being. also, good luck trying to change ZB's opinion.

[674f3f494af1evoodoo47]

added the Arcaniac version (why? because I can). this one is quite different from the previous two - it uses the setup from the first video (the other setup is not implementable without looking stupid because of screwed up Arcaniac joints), and works for both SCP and the (SS2tool patched) vanilla game (no user intervention necessary, the game knows whether the user is running vanilla or SCP and will activate the proper dml).

the good: this will conveniently unfuck the Arcaniac hybrid as much as possible without editing the model itself (the hybrid actually aiming the shotgun at the player now, and muzzle flashes spawn where they should), improve the visuals by using the real shotgun world model, and switch the model accordingly in case a shotgun world model mod (such as Tacticool) is installed (Assidragon's SCP shotgun can be seen on the attached picture).

the bad: when running vanilla game, it's quite obvious that the hybrid shotgun world model is smaller than the player shotgun. possible fix currently under investigation.

the ugly: Arcaniac model is still ugly.

[674f3f494b30cYankee Clipper]

the ugly: Arcaniac model is still ugly.

Yes, yes it is.

Unless it is being compared to either the vanilla or rebirth models, then it looks stunningly beautiful. Rebirth is just too cartoony for me. I realize that it is one of the most popular mods available, but the Arcaniac mod - stripped of that twink droid as well as the rebirth models (rumblers and monkeys) - just looks better to me.

I tried out the Arcaniac shotgun minimod. Impressive! It is now on my permanent roster of mods.

[674f3f494b4c0voodoo47]

dunno, there is just something about the Arcaniac stuff that makes me go "how about no!" for some reason - maybe it's my mind subconsciously rejecting the concept of converted HL1 (and other) models as part of SS2.

also, I have this weird relationship with the (Arcaniac) pack, one part of me wants it to be unmaintained and just die off already, but the other part always ends up fixing it anyway (probably because effort is one of the few things I recognize, and despite all the weird and broken stuff, there is no doubt that a considerable amount of it went into the mod).


anyway, if nothing else, I was able to get all the gears turning as I wanted them to, so satisfaction derived. and if someone actually enjoys using the Arcaniac (mini)mod, well, all the better.

[674f3f494b60avoodoo47]

quickly added mission dmls that fix the size on the pre-placed shotguns (orig missions only, no FMs), and the release version (RealSG_Arcaniac_1.0.7z) is now attached to the Arcaniac mod topic. both RC downloaders are recommended to switch to the full release.

[674f3f494b922RocketMan]

Because I've been tardy in keeping up with current affairs... it's the vanilla shotty that has a missing polygon that you want fixed?  I mean I assume all sg hybrids from all mods are affected but does the scope of the mod plan to cover them all or u just want the vanilla one?

[674f3f494ba68voodoo47]

no, it's only the vanilla model - the rest hold an actual something in their hands, and it's easy to make that something invisible by editing the texture. the vanilla AI is different - the shotgun stub is basically his giant (middle) finger, so if I edit the texture out, a hole will be left in his hand. also, a part of his bloodied head is mapped onto the tip of the shotgun, and that stays visible no matter what. so, to make this work properly/unbuggy, a model with the shotgun stub removed is needed.

so basically, cut away the shotgun stub, close the hole on his fist. joints should be preserved.

[674f3f494bb6cvoodoo47]

ok, a test version of a different setup - this one will remove the shotgun from the hybrid once you loot it from the corpse. needs SCP (no Rebirth or Arcaniac for now).

//attach removed.

[674f3f494bcc1voodoo47]

ironed out some wrinkles, and fixed a nice fat bug - RC attached. also, I believe this setup (real shotgun in hand, removed once the gun is looted from the inventory) is closest to the original (non)setup, so unless a show stopping bug pops out, I intend to use it for the final/full version of the mod* (vanilla AI and Rebirth, Arcaniac already has a fully working addon that does the thing as properly as possible with the currently available resources). unless there are objections.

thorough testing would be appreciated, especially whether everything works properly after saving/loading/going through bulkheads.


*hopefully RocketMan will manage to fix up the vanilla AI model, it'd be really nice to have it in the final version.

[674f3f494bdabRocketMan]

I will try my best to do this tomorrow.