SSR System Shock Remake Feedback Request - Night Dive Studios

[67404f396f5a5pripyatbeast]

Greetings Everyone,

This is Stephen Kick from Night Dive Studios and as most of you know we're currently developing a complete remake of the original System Shock. As we get further along we'd like to reach out to you, the Shock community that has kept the franchise alive for so many years for feedback, suggestions, ideas - anything that you'd like to share with us so that we can deliver an experience worthy of the Shock name.

I realize that not everyone here is pleased with how we handled the release and distribution of SS2 almost 3 years ago - "Tech Ninjas" aside, I admit, mistakes were made. We were a brand new studio who had been handed the keys to the castle and we did the best we could. Since then we've secured the rights to the franchise, worked very closely with community member Malba Tahan to finish and release his port of System Shock and are currently collaborating with OtherSide Entertainment to create something many of us never could have imagined: System Shock 3

We've also tracked down the source code to the original game and will be releasing it to the community once it's ready.

We will most likely be seeking crowd funding to complete the game so if you have any ideas for features you'd like to see, rewards, stretch goals, concerns, anything crowd funding related, please don't hesitate to share. This is a dream project for us and working with some of the original LG crew to bring you a faithful Shock experience has been an absolute pleasure - we can't wait to show you what we have in store.

[67404f396f897voodoo47]

pretty sure we'll figure something out. also just to confirm, the source code to the orig game means SS1 source? now that would be amazing.

and fixed the img link in your post - remember, image links must be https to display properly.

[67404f3970599pripyatbeast]

Thank you Voodoo! Yes, SS1 source is a very exciting prospect.

[67404f39709c8antimatter_16]

I really like SS2 multiplayer despite how buggy it is (and always was). I play through it with a friend every other year or so. I think cooperative mode be a great stretch goal for a SS1 remake. Maybe some rudimentary deathmatch. I recognize that there are some people on here who are opposed to multiplayer in system shock 2, though I think players should be allowed to decide their own experience.

I'd also like to say that you guys have done great bringing System Shock 2 into the market and to new fans, despite the hiccups.

Other ideas:
Include a level editor add-on
Soundtrack
Retro-mode - unfiltered 32x32 pixel terrain textures and objects replaced with 3d sprites
In the original SS1, Conway's game of life plays on the walls of cyberspace. You know what to do.
Unlockable standalone adventure that takes an hour or so to beat.
Male/female hacker avatars to choose from
In SS2 there's a "Gamepig" handheld console the character can find along with different game cartridges to play mini games. Reimplement this!

[67404f3971514Hikari]

Thank you for taking the time to stop by here.

Here are a few things I would like in no real particular order.:

Don't make me have to buy a new rig just to play.
I've got a dual core system with more or less an entry level video card (gforce 720.) Before then it was on intel graphics. It has three gigs of ram. I should be able to play this new game even if I have to crank the settings down and turn the flashy things off. By play I don't mean 'it will sorta work.' I mean have a decent solid 30FPS experiance (yes yes 60 or bust I know, but I'm talking minamum playability here.) I would much rather it actually able to play without me needing to upgrade my box if at all possible. Bit selfish to be honest, but simpler assets also mean you don't have to spend as much time making them (I think. Someone feel free to correct me.) Plus it widens your audience a fair bit.

Please look at linux.
I don't know if you can do linux of any flavor, but it'd be nice if Debian derived things had a bit of love if nothing else (Ubuntu, Mint, etc.) WOuld prefer something more universal, but still.

Source Code?
Asking for the moon here really, but it'd be nice if you offered that up, or at the absolute minamum archived it and then let it go public after you feel it's safe, or SOMETHING so we don't have the problem Shock1 and 2 had of 'oops... the sauce is lost. We can't do any bug patches.' Then hope/Pray that future OS's play nice or that some mad genius makes their own patch that obliviates a ton of fan hackery.

Contact Internet Archive/Archive.org
Yes they have publicly accessible things for software, media, and the like. However while i want those publicly accessible used to store things like concept art, the manual, promo material, and the like, I want you to get in touch with them to do a private backup of game source and a functioning copy. I want it so that when the insect overlords show up in twenty years it's not 'oh crap we overwrote the disk that had the source and we're screwed.' Please. Consider working with those guys as they are very insanely serious about information preservation.

Scaling UI
Future Displays will have more pixels. So it would be best if the UI adjusted so it won't look like it was made for ants.

Remappable Controls.
I would say streamlined, but that's a bit of a dirty word around here what with 'cnsolification is killing gaming.' However we dont' need three lean and crouch settings. We don't need eight billion buttons. I could stand to have the controls streamlined a bit so I can focus on the game and not 'how do I do the thing?'

Under this also includes 'weight' of things. Like making sure weapon fire feels weighty, a pipe's swing doens't feel like it has nothing there other than Gibbon Man flailing arms around. It shouldn't feel like we're walking on ice or glass.

Easy to use Mapping/Modding Tools.
This is born out of the fact that DromEd was, for a very long time, buggy, crash happy, and temperamental. It is still somewhat Odd to use but with the Newdark patch it's gotten far better. I rank this so high because with mapping and mod tools you can do things like make new levels, edit existing levels, fix texture alignment, object and enemy placement, and tweak the game over-all to have life once the primary campaign is over and the userbase starts to grow tired of it. Even if some things I list cannot be done given time and money constraints, modders tend to be able to chip away at a thing for years. Just... don't treat it like 'oh the fans will fix it so we can rush.' We need a good solid memorable game as a basis for everything else.

It'd be kinda nice if there were assets included that aren't used in the main game like added portrates, and or an alt computer voice. You can't obviously include a lot that won't be used in some form, but a few new assets, or even templates to make new 2d assets for modders to go by would be nice.

Don't make any Online Components totally dependant on a Central Server.
Say you want to put Deathmatch in, or some kind of co-op, or... SOMETHING. Cool. What happens when you can't mantain the auth server or the plug gets pulled? That happened to the tribes community, and while workarounds could be made due to how moddable tribes and tribes 2 were they were all workarounds until Tribes Next went and patched T2. I know I'm probably being silly given Shock is a horror game first and foremost, but on the idea that multiplayer is going to be a thing a little future proofing would be good.

Also IF multiplayer is a thing please, for the love of XERXES do not release it unless it actually works on normal connections. If that cannot be done or it would take too much effort to balance. Axe it.

Getting to see more of the setting.
In System Shock  there was a tool marked '?' that when waved over inventory items, your stats, skills, psionics, and so on would give you in-universe background into each. Sue System Shock 1 had a somewhat generic feeling cyberpunk world, but Shock 2 expanded and adapted it to have personality and live, and show that there is actually a lot going on. After all how often does a russian mafiosa get to buy up a once-great corporation with the intent on rebuilding it in a setting where nanites are used both as currency and as to build everything while the hero that stopped a populist uprising in Boston is the son of the man who let the AI Demon out of the bottle?

Please, show us more of this world.

That said, even if it's just concept art I'd like to see a 'before Shodan sunk her claws in and rennovated' version of citadel.

Allow us to tackle problems in our own ways.
I liked that about both prior system shocks. You could do things your own way. Sure there are ways that work BETTER than others, but on the whole you could largely approach your work as you see fit. That way I can have one or two psionic powers, none, go full psionic, or find ways to get through all guns blazing. My fear is tools that completely remove the need for skills. Example being if you played your cards right you didn't need the modify skill because enough auto upgrade devices were around on most difficulties that made you not need it, or auto-hacking tools so you could get one or two things and still have enough to use on the end boss's shield terminals.

I like being able to work around absent or under-used skills, but I want those skills to still have meaning so you can do interesting things. Let's take the auto upgrade tools. Maybe they only do specific mods in order of importance but don't let you go with the really exotic ones unless you already have a high enough rank in maintenance.

Maybe you can either choose to dump organs, or weapons, or random junk into the research machine and have it automagically do a lot of stuff but it's slower, or you can have the thing on you and your implants tell you to do specific things at specific times and it gets done faster but you have to babysit it.

Choices that Matter.
System Shock Infinite did this to great effect especially given the limits of the dark engine and that it was entirely a fan effort. You had several factions and events you could work within but once you made a choice you weren't completely locked out of the other paths in that you could still complete tasks to make them happen. This caused a complex chain of things where you could have up to five separate cut-scenes play as parts of a larger ending, or end the game early because you took a really specialized build to kill SHODAN on Ops when she revealed herself, or even earlier by using the grenade launcher to go back to the start of the game and join SHODAN, or do none of these and oops you think you won but really got brainhosed into being a minion.

That was done by fans who had to beat and hammer the engine to do what they want. These people theoretically can bake these things into their engine so even if they don't, we can later on.

More to the point. What if My iteration of the Hacker wants to accept the triop-offered job? What if shooting the minng laser without raising the shields isn't the end of the game and we have to deal with the mess we made?

Remove the Inventory Tetris, but Keep the character Customizeability.
Take notes from the first game here. There were implants that did things beyond simple stat buffs, skills that improved when other skills also got upgraded, and with the way game design has changed over the past fifteen years more can be explored and done. What I don't want is 'huh huh huh huh they want immersion so you must unload every round, pick up even broken weapons to get at their ammunition, physically drag batteries and other objects to where they need to go.' To that I say No! Those things break flow, bog the player down, break pace and kill story for the sake of some self-important sense of realism. We are allowed to make concessions for the sake of speed and pace. Console-friendliness does not have to be hated nor is it going to inherently make things worse. I want to play a game, not play tetris just to make my inventory have enough space for an item.

Keep the horror house feel and sound.
While we all can agree System Shock 2's graphics did not age well, the sound remains very incredible and tense. At least it does to me and is the reason I hate playing it in the dark (especially with the new lighting from the community patch.) This is what the shock games are at their absolute core. Strip away the details on who and what and just look at the games themselves. You're dropped into a situation more or less alone with maybe a disembodied voice that can sorta at some times offer help and guidance, but you're very much alone against the unknown. Admittedly I didn't like the background music in Shock2, but the ambient noises? Those random announcements by Xerxes that are mundane and generally about this or that droid doing a poetry reading or how long til Christmas, regulations, and so on.

I want that. It is the heart and soul of the Shock Franchise. Even when I personally was very powerful there was always that sense of foreboding because of just how danged creepy the level itself was.

ZERO Micro-Transactions
Do I really need to elaborate here guys? It's bad candy. Don't pick it up.

The big thing though is I want the core gameplay to be solid and focused. I want every feature and corner of the map to serve a purpose. I don't want to be bogged down in side minutia because 'muh immersion.' That said some things are tradition at this point, like the minigames you can load in your implants.

Focus on that core concept above EVERYTHING ELSE and refine it before moving on to anything. The whole place should feel like we're in the belly of shodan's funhouse of doom that she spent the past few months customizing to her tastes.

Lastly:
Friction to one side man. I'm grateful for your studio sorting out the legal wire tangle System Shock was in. there've been ups and downs, but you're giving us stuff we have wanted for awhile. I just want it to end up well and not some half baked pile shoveled out the door. We're a rabidly loyal fanbase but we have to conceed we are not your core market. We are just the guys that've been making noise screaming at everybody. So there will be concessions to people that haven't memorized every single corner and quirk of the original game.

Oh! A manual. Both Shock 1 and 2 had really in depth manuals that didn't just cover gameplay but offered a look at the world including timelines, information about things, and so on. Can we have that, even if you have to pay extra for a physical copy and most people just get a pdf?

[67404f3971d29Marvin]

SS1 source, huh? Interesting ...


I would rather see a departure from the original than a HD remake since I don't see the point of retreading the same paths with some more sprinkles on top. Money for a remake would be better spent on SS3. But since you seem hellbent on it, let's go with that.

- don't use the original level geometry. The first painted screenshot/concept art released showed the exact same room with new textures, a horrible interface and a half dozen stupid shaders added on top. 3D was still in its infancy back then, nowadays nurses in video games don't have to climb up a large boulder to reach a cupboard in the back.

- unless the aforementioned concept was one whacky idea out of a dozen, please tone down the effects. In general, remember you're developing for the PC (are you?), so make everything customizable. Mod support should be a given, too.

- here's something for a nifty stretch goal: Add a playable intro where you can experience (parts of) Citadel before Shodan's takeover. Doesn't need to be long, in fact, it shouldn't be too long, but it'd be a nice way to see more of the world and interact with some of the characters.

- add more choices. It would be nice to be able to tackle at least some of the quests in SS1 in multiple ways and play better to the strengths of your own character. SS1 and SS2 could have learned from their contemporaries like Ultima Underworld and Thief in that regard.
To that end, it would be nice to finally have hardware upgrades and skills in one game.

- Make a serious effort to fix cyberspace, but if you can't, just scratch it. It's a nice idea in general and I don't like to see features cut instead of being improved upon but it can't stay the way it is.

- I'm glad you got Terri on board, but please ditch the rest of the voice over, it's terrible (compared to modern standards). On the other hand, I don't think I need to mention how important nostalgia is for the success of a kickstarter campaign, so if you can get some former LG or Irrational guys on board, do it. I personally don't really care and some campaigns really go overboard with this, but if a Eric Brosius goal nets you $500k, who cares, right?

[67404f39720b1ThiefsieFool]

I don't have much to say except this: make sure there are proper difficulty settings.

We all know that mouselook makes SS1 a lot easier and that presumably more enhancements to the interface are forthcoming, so Hard should pack quite a punch to compensate.

When making hard difficulties though, please try to hold off from relying on enemy hitpoints inflation, you really want to avoid something like Bioshock where there's no enjoyable difficulty setting if you're a decent player, since you have to choose between near-unkillable enemies (hard) or massive over-abundance of resources (normal).
Good avenues for making difficulty work are increased enemy counts (allows tactics like using chokepoints or explosives more often unlike increased hitpoints) and more resource scarcity, also different arrangements of game objects dependent on difficulty, like a useful item that shows up later than normal or a new group of enemies poised to ambush you.

[67404f39721f7fox]

Do not try to 'streamline the experience'.

[67404f39725e7Join2]

Very respectable to own up to misdeeds of the past, and it's great to hear that this is more than just business for you. I'm also glad you took System Shock home to Otherside and now a System Shock 3 is on the cards. You promise what we have all been dreaming of since forever. None of us is perfect; perhaps you truly deserve to be the one to bring this magnificent IP forward.

-I'd ask that it be kept relatively faithful in gameplay, plot, difficulty and simulation, although I'd expect to see some considerable improvements with respect to AI, controls (obviously), and would be happy to see gameplay expansions such as pseudo-realistic weapon modification and fully-fledged skill-based cyberspace movement and combat.
-Music is something that will be remastered no matter what we say I'm sure, and I'm all for it.
-Please also consider adding unique music tracks to decks 4 and 7, as I was a little disappointed they were recycles of previous decks, even if it is standard industry practice to do some recycling, plus was a massive improvement over Ultima Underworld's same dynamic music set throughout all levels.
-Consider expanding upon gameplay preferences, including difficulty settings.
-Try to nail combat harder than in the original game, as it is the core of the game yet was a little underwhelming If we're being honest here, even with all the player choice and freedom of movement.
-SS2 grid inventory/use mode combo is desired.
-Provide notable consequences for Cyborg conversation chamber use, perhaps scaling based on difficulty level as in SS2.
-Innovate if it is logical and fitting to do so, and I'll support every such move. This is a remake, we have SS:EE, so I'm fine with differences.

Good initiative posting here requesting feedback. Obviously a smart business move too, but you truly can please nearly everyone by involving the community in such a way across development. Our input has its value, if only for the sake of additional perspective, although if you have an exceptional development team no additional perspective will be needed. 

Do not try to 'streamline the experience'.

Except the controls. UI is probably going to see streamlining too, it was Neurath's only regret it seems. As long as none of the related functionality and conveyed information is lost I don't see why not though. The SS2 interface is my ideal standard. I love its design and think it is a work of genius.

I also propose the typical hand-holders can be added exclusively to lower difficulties. Add new modifiers for navigation, namely objective markers. Too many people simply can't do without, as mind boggling as that is. How in the hell do people navigate the real world if they cannot navigate intuitively designed small playspaces? The answer is they can do that, they have just been conditioned to think they shouldn't have to in a game. Just be sure to design the game without the explicit need for markers, and then add them when that's been established.

Represent the Shock/LGS experience when bringing it to a new audience. Prove good design still trumps all. And be sure to milk the Bioshock name as much as legally possible in marketing.

[67404f3972719zoog]

Hello Nyarlathotep and best wishes in your work.
I just want to try to encourage you to not listen too much to fans or try to please everyone - look what have become to gaming industry with such kind of attitude. Multiplayer, eww. Do it the hard way)
And yet - the more LGS people you get engaged the much, MUCH better. That's what i'd dream of.

[67404f39733caZylonBane]

Retro-mode - unfiltered 32x32 pixel terrain textures and objects replaced with 3d sprites
In SS2 there's a "Gamepig" handheld console the character can find along with different game cartridges to play mini games. Reimplement this!

SS1's wall textures are actually 128x128, same as SS2's. And SS1 already has playable mini games that you collect. That's why SS2 has them.

Remove the Inventory Tetris

Uhh, SS1 had no inventory Tetris. This thread is about the SS1 remake, remember?

While we all can agree System Shock 2's graphics did not age well

We agree to no such thing. Due to SS2's clean, stylized art style, its graphics have aged quite well.

[67404f3973982Olfred]

Many things have already been said so I don't want to just repeat it. Therefore I only elaborate on my biggest concern right now.
As Marvin already stated, simply taking the original geometry and just blend some effects on it just doesn't cut it.
The screenshots provided look more like the source has been released and fans added some cool things to the original game, not like a remake.

A remake which is developed should look like a game which is on par with other releases of the current time. What we see right now looks like a game from 15 years ago.
The general level layout should stay intact and close to the original, but the looks of the interior should match up to todays standards. Some expansions and alterations are good and wanted if it really adds to the whole experience. What comes to mind is to expand the layout so you really match the outer "casing" of the space station. Make the outer rooms follow the curvature an maybe add some windows here and there.
Notable games are Black Mesa (Half-Life remake) where everything got a modern touch but you still felt right at home. Also the Resident Evil remake does a nice transition between reimagining and expanding the old game. Although I have to admit that too many changes to the original riddles and such have been made to be a faithful remake.

Now it comes down to Kickstarter.
When it comes down to stretch goals you should obviously have the first goal to be the basic game. Followed by improvements to the original concept. Expanded skill system, expanded weapon system (customisation etc.), avatar creation, multiplayer coop support, and so on. Followed by small expansions to the world like adding an outside mission or something like that.
For the initial launch this should be it.
If all the goals have been reached (or are close to be so) make some announcement that due to the big interest in the project you will be adding new stretch goals. These could be a new level added to the station, even bigger expansions to skill and weapon systems, more customisation for the avatar, you get the idea.
When you go with adding a level there should be smaller follow up goals to the new level, like, new monsters, new weapons etc. follow up by something big unrelated to the level as a means people look forward to.

Even if there is already a big list of stretch goals you, should go with only expanding the list as you are nearing the end.
This way people will see a certain mark to reach and are more likely to spend money on it to reach "the full game" opposed to seeing an unreachable goal and just shy away. Additionally there won't be people who will be upset because goal number 35 which they really looked forwards to hasn't been reached. Also you might get extra PR because gaming sites will report that due to high demand new stretch goals will be added.

Talking about rewards for backing. I really don't like that the rewards for backing to get a copy of the game is exactly as high as the estimated retail price once the game is released. There is really nothing in it for me other than the possibility to have wasted my money.
Whenever I am intrested in something at Kickstarter and they do it like this, I'll just pass the backing. It's much better for me to just wait for the release of the game and check if it's just a bunch of garbage or actually a decent game. Then I can still buy it for the same price as if I would have it backed.
What I would like to see as steps for getting the game is a digital copy for a lower price than the estimated release price and a physical copy which is at or slightly lower as the retail price. But it should have something nice about it you only get at Kickstarter. Like a special steelbook casing, some art cards and a key chain or something. Just add some small fancy goodies to it.

After that just add some more goodies, like the hacker t-shirt, a shodan poster etc. and at higher "prices" the same stuff but signed.

When it comes down to digital goodies, please only add cosmetic stuff and nothing like "secret level/weapon/story/whatever" which adds to the game. People will flail you for it.
If you reach a goal which will expand the game and new stuff needs to be added you can also do rewards like "your name in the game" or "name a weapon/add-on/area/whatever" thing. But post a little disclaimer to it that it needs to be an appropriate name. I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Major Asshole" in System Shock.

[67404f3973ccaHikari]

One thing I'd kinda like in the remake is an explaination, no matter how flimsy, Beta Grove could be put way out nearly fifty light years away. On the one hand I like how System Shock Infinite did it what with it never happened until the loops started and it was originally just a transmission of shodan's codebase that took over and then reality warping.... but that'd basically be you guys canonizing a fan work. Do or not as you like but to sorta give some hint at Shock2 could have happened would be good.


More importantly I've asked around with friends that have put money in Kickstarter stuff.

The big thing here is communicate often. Weekly would be preferable but at the absolute minimum do not leave your backers in the dark. A lot of kickstarters fail and people demand refunds when communication breaks down, the thing you put money on is announced months after the initial release date, 'oh sorry we've got delays' or more often 'oh sorry we underestimated how much it cost.' This is the most important thing. You need to keep in constant honest and open communication both to show that you're working on the thing, and so that anyone that feels like things are taking too long won't feel like you just stole their money thus leading to really REALLY bad press.

This cannot be canned statements that say nothing using a lot of words. Concerns have to be addressed. Discussion must be had. If nothing else it'll serve to help keep the hype train going when inevitable delays happen. Easier to sympathize with people that are showing you what they're doing and why delays are happening rather than some faceless corp shoving someone out to make a youtube video with a canned 'we appreciate you joining us on this journey' type empty statement.

As for rewards such as posters, shirts, and so on. Personally  I would rather not do much physical merch since that's money that could go towards the game itself.


That said I would want one tier that's a delux box with color manual and some bit of shelf art be it a model of Citadel, a triop logo coaster, or something small but kinda neat. Bundles where you can gift other people copies of the game (be it steam/gog keys or physical jewel cases you can specify who they get mailed to) would also be wonderful.

If you do 'kickstarter exclusive gun/level/skin/etc' make it avalible in the level editor. So it's less 'only those anointed by us get to play with the thing' and more 'this is them getting dibs on something everyone else will get to play with themselves. That said, I'm with the guy above me in I really do not want exclusive stuff that isn't just cosmetic. It leads to hurt and angry people. You do not need the bad press.

Also, just as a thing for me. While poasters are kinda nice I honestly want something that isn't just the box art blown up to poster size. Something like Citadel with saturn in the background I'd be able to frame and hang. Then again I'm weird in that I don't want it to look like this one piece of game stuff and I'd be required to have a gaming lounge for it to look proper in, so... take it with a grain of salt.

[67404f3973e21ZylonBane]

I'm basically expecting a Citadel Station that looks as detailed as the one in Alien: Isolation. But with the 90s cyberpunk aesthetic instead of 70s industrial grunge.

[67404f3974422voodoo47]

first, I'm going to assume that we are not talking about a simple remake here (I usually call such remakes engine clones - basically importing all the original resources into some other engine, cloning the levels and recreating AI and other functionality to be as close to the original as possible). so that leaves us with a full remake, meaning taking the spirit of SS1 and creating a whole new vessel for it, one that would appeal to the next generation of gamers. those that are beyond the call of duty, anyway.

some general advice first - don't do anything that would obviously anger everyone/anyone who has played and liked the original SS1, things like regenerating health, infinite ammo boxes and anything else that is considered "COD kiddy stuff". while it might be tempting to make a game "more approachable" for the sake of being able to target a larger demographic, this usually leads to catastrophic failures - the newest Thief game would be a nice example, being a horrible, dumbed down, broken abomination for everyone who knew and liked the old Thief games, and being just a sort of ok-ish, mediocre, forgettable game for those who didn't. overall, Eidos would probably have been better off simply porting Thief1 into a new engine, and polishing the levels a bit. and this is EXACTLY what should be avoided - you need the old boys to like the remake, they are the ones who will be writing articles on the 'net and other media, and spread the glory. or shame. so don't try to please everyone, it's impossible, and you would probably end up pleasing no one.


that brings us to the more specific stuff;

keep the core mechanics intact - all that weird but enjoyable stuff, like the hacking puzzles, minigames, cyberspace, booster skates, gadgets etc. if it worked well, and people liked it, keep it in. you want to preserve the uniqueness, not erase it into blandness and genericness (wow, that's actually a word). lets not make this into a corridor rail shooter with System Shock textures. same goes for the story and quests - not much retouching is needed (and desired) here. to make it short, if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

redo the levels properly - as already mentioned, slapping shiny textures on the primitive SS1 level geometry will not do. so don't be afraid to change things here - simply cloning the quite nonsensical SS1 level architecture would not be wise, the levels need to feel like a real space station, not just "rooms where monsters jump at you". this was (very) ok 20 years ago, but would be almost comical nowadays. but do keep the general aesthetics true to the original, meaning the new level should instantly be identifiable as Engineering, Grove etc.

AIs need an overhaul - again, sprites standing around doing their idle dance was fine in the nineties, but wouldn't do ok today. keep their aesthetics and abilities intact, but make them work well with the new levels.

UI/controls need a lot of work - obviously. the biggest pain of the vanilla game needs to be reworked into something more modern - something close to the inventory mode/shoot mode setup from System Shock2 would work nicely here. also, hotkeys for grenades (that frob from inventory just to kill yourself thing needs to go) and some other things. to make it short (again), if it's broken, annoying, or people disliked it, fix it, and don't listen what the hardcore purists say.

however, the inventory does not - surprisingly, SS1 inventory with its tabs and slots (and selectable infowindows on the sides) is very functional, and I wouldn't be too afraid to leave it in with only minimal adjustments. and I certainly wouldn't try to forcibly rework it into SS2 tetris style inventory.

keep the hardware requirements low - next gen graphics will not be the selling point of this game. as far as the engine is concerned, go with something stable, proven, highly modable, with decent looks and low system requirements. also with something that has linux/MAC support right out of the box. the point is, every potato needs to be able to run this.

keep it affordable - lets be honest here, if done right, the remake will certainly find its place on many harddrives, but it won't be breaking the internet Fallout4 style. making sure everyone with the above mentioned potato will be able to buy the game would be nice.

allow us to mod the game - well, obviously.

also,

I'm basically expecting a Citadel Station that looks as detailed as the one in Alien: Isolation. But with the 90s cyberpunk aesthetic instead of 70s industrial grunge.

yes.

[67404f397477bNameless Voice]

For me, a huge part of System Shock is the sense of isolation.

You are alone in a hostile environment with only extremely patchy communications from Lansing and periodic taunts from SHODAN.  There is no mission control holding your hand, no one telling you exactly what to do next.  Instead, you have a vague goal and you have to work out how to accomplish it based on the information you have and what the crew recorded in their logs.

System Shock is an immersive sim about hardware and physical modification.  Everything that your character can do is based on how you control them and the choices that you make.  Abstract things like weapon skills do not fit there, instead everything is based on the hardware that you have found and installed.  If player customisation is to be expanded, then it should be in that direction - the ability to modify and improve hardware to expand your abilities, rather than experience/skill points that make you better.  The onus needs to be on player skill, not character skill.

As others have said before, a System Shock remake needs to be a game for today, not a blind remake of the original.  The level design, architecture and texturing of the original System Shock is frankly nonsensical if you stop and look at it closely, and would make even less sense once everything is highly detailed.  Follow the basic layouts and themes of the game, but expand them into realistic environments that wouldn't look out-of-place in a modern game.  Don't intentionally make it primitive and retro so that it looks more like a fresh coat of paint on the original rather than a true remake, and certainly don't shy away from using high-quality visuals to make it work on ancient computers.

Finally, while the controls in the original game were far too complex and awkward, don't go too far in the opposite direction.  You may need to simply the controls and combine several actions on a single button for the console release, but make sure that you keep them sensible and straight-forward on the PC.  Remember that PCs have hundreds of keys available, so there's no reason not to at least have optional bindings for every action.
Far too often, modern games force the use of awkward menus for selection instead of allowing hotkeys, or use a single key that performs a dozen actions based on context, often making the player do the wrong thing because the right and wrong actions share a single button.  Don't fall into that trap.

[67404f39749beMarvin]

I'm basically expecting a Citadel Station that looks as detailed as the one in Alien: Isolation. But with the 90s cyberpunk aesthetic instead of 70s industrial grunge.

Yeah, no, not with kickstarter money at least.

[67404f3974ad3ZylonBane]

Some of SS1's puzzle areas really are quite ridiculously gamey. But if Half-Life 2 could get away with having thousands of explosive barrels all over the city without breaking immersion, I supposed a few silly repulsorlift configurations wouldn't be the end of the world.

[67404f3974c05Hikari]

I'm gonna agree on making it less abstract rooms all over the place, but any oddities can be explained away by shodan's renovations. After all her minions have different requirements than human ones.

Hey can they get Chicajo to OK the use of a few of his remixes? Or better yet, hire him to do a few more?

Anyone have any feelings to having a Shock2 type upgrade station thing going on, or do we want more 'implants for everything' like the original?

[67404f3974ce3voodoo47]

I'm very much for keeping the core mechanics intact, wrenching new stuff in forcibly sounds like a bad idea.

[67404f3974f85Marvin]

I think NV said it best when mentioning the extension of hardware upgrades through cybernetic means. One example that comes to mind would be the level's security rating. Lowering it by taking control away from Shodan could free up resources in cyberspace which, through some "magic" means, can be used to improve the player's cyber rig.

I'm very much for keeping the core mechanics intact, wrenching new stuff in forcibly sounds like a bad idea.

Well, what are the core mechanics? The immersive sim evolved, and the definition of what makes a great System Shock with it. There are lots of cool things to describe what made SS1 so good but the gameplay is hard to describe in this regard.

[67404f39750d6voodoo47]

to make it short and simple, I would like to see a realistic Citadel, with all the SS1 good stuff in, and all the bad stuff gone.

core mechanics are, well, core mechanics - for example, not requiring anything special to equip weapons. bringing in SS2 upgrade stations, some sort of credits that the player would need to spend there, and giving the weapons requirements so he would have to upgrade is changing it, and I view this as not desirable. this is not supposed to be SS2, or Dead Space or whatever, it's supposed to be SS1.

not opposed to small additions though, like maybe some weapon upgrades the player could find, or get from cyberspace.

[67404f3975447Marvin]

core mechanics are, well, core mechanics - for example, not requiring anything special to equip weapons. bringing in SS2 upgrade stations, some sort of credits that the player would need to spend there, and giving the weapons requirements so he would have to upgrade is changing it, and I view this as not desirable. this is not supposed to be SS2, or Dead Space or whatever, it's supposed to be SS1.

One can introduce hardware upgrades while leaving these mechanics intact. SS1 already does it, of course, only in a very limited way by letting players find more advanced hardware versions. Same with Deus Ex - you don't have to invest in rifles to wield a shotgun.
It all matters on what's most important to you - making the best possible game or keeping the SS1 legacy intact. I'd argue that these two points overlap most of the time, but not always, and that the latter is already achieved by the enhanced edition and a subsequent source code release.

[67404f39755d6voodoo47]

careful tweaks and additions should be ok, but one way or another, caution would be advised - making the game NOT feel like SS1 is probably a bad idea. for example, adding friendly AIs might sound like a good plan, but the overall SS1 atmosphere would take a punch in the face. SS1 should not have friendly AIs, end of story.

I believe the goal should be to make it the best possible SS1 game. not SS1 - like, not SS1 inspired, not a spiritual successor. just plain old SS1, running in a realistic Citadel, and smooth as never before.