SSR System Shock Remake Feedback Request - Night Dive Studios

[67345e991d96aunn_atropos]

Saving anywhere (with a decent amount of slots)  +1.

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In System Shock 1 and 2 you have to piece together story bits by logs and conclusions (new ones that you draw^^) from the things you see in the game (storytelling through environment). Like Log:"Horribles stuff is going on. I dont want to see that anymore"...*player finds the person dead surrounded by empty bottles of booze*
You should keep and expand on this "head/mind cinema".

In addition there could be short videos from camera footage that the player can find/unlock in cyberspace.
These clips could contain stuff like
- getting a doorcode trough observing someone punching it in (puzzle)
- last words by important characters
- if you do a "pre desaster sequence": see how you removed Shodans moral restrains and what happened to you after that
- confront the player with a questionable thing he did and let him wonder if he is the same person after his loss of memory
- corporate propaganda/commercials

And before everybody jumps at me, I have to clarify: Logs should still be the main tool of the storytelling and the video bits only used additionally to enrich and contribute to the atmosphere. The focus on video logs in Deadspace f.e. (though cool) didn't do the same for me, as it lessened the feeling of isolation. So use it sparsely.

Unlike Sys2 (except the intro) Sys1 already had some video footage as a believable part of the world, so you could expand that and give the game more depth as it already had.

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Oh, and don't you dare excluding the rocket boots! Just. Don't.

[67345e991dd3cRocketMan]

I must say... those jump boots were the best shit since sliced bread... and I-CAD batteries!  Throwback to when people still used cadmium.  Those batteries were better than anything we use today.

[67345e991dec7Hikari]

That's a great question. What sort of customization do we want.

Also would the shock timeline allow psionics? Do we want a fusion of shock1's implants and gear alongside shock 2's stat upgrades and skill learning?

How do we wanna roll with this?

[67345e991e0a3ZylonBane]

No smegging psionics. This is a remake, not a reboot.

[67345e991e1adHikari]

Easy there man. Easy. Just an idea. Though it probably would be for the best to not include in this one for the sake of how hard it would be to balance.

[67345e991e570voodoo47]

such additions would perhaps be best suited for some sort of an "enhanced gameplay mode" stretch goal. the "classic mode" should have priority (and be the default thing). again, not making a game that pays a homage to SS1, but a SS1 remake. well, this is actually NightDive's decision, but as far as I understand, a remake is where they want to take this.

[67345e991e75fSynaesthesia]

Hey Nyarlathotep!

I'm Quixel's community manager. I'd like to reach out and see if I can be put in touch with your art team at Night Dive. If Quixel can assist with the development of this awesome project, please let me know! I can be best reached via jonathan @ quixel . se

[67345e991ecf5Dazzle!!]

A lot of people have said similar things, but I would like to re-emphasize the importance of a few things:

Stay true to the feeling of the original game
What is the System Shock series most known for? Its beautifully terrifying atmosphere. The feeling of isolation that a lone player feels in space against an army of monsters. This deep atmosphere is the key to finding the heart of System Shock, and it is ageless. Though much else has aged, this aspect is what makes SS so timeless. The atmosphere in SS is king - design everything else in the game to emphasize it and exploit it, not take away from it.

Staying true to the feeling of the original does NOT mean that it has to be the same game
As the atmosphere is indeed king, there are better methods of delivery for that atmosphere than existed over 20 years ago. Utilize these to connect with a player in the best way possible, even if it means doing things differently than 20 years ago. If I want to play the original SS, I own the Enhanced Edition, but I want to buy a remake of the game so I can have a modern experience of what was felt in '94 by a '94 player. If I'm to feel isolated in '16, I don't want the MIDI soundtrack from the original. I don't want the boxy level geometry from the original. I don't even necessarily want the sci-fi to feel as 90s as the original did. Many of these are artifacts of the time, and there are much better ways to effectively communicate the isolated, scary atmosphere in modern times with modern techniques.

Please stay away from the uniform cubic level geometry seen in the screenshots
Again, this is an artifact of the times. The level design was very restricted in the early 90s, and we don't have that problem today. Even with modern textures and lighting, the level shapes feel old and dated, and make little sense to a player. Sure we have the medical area from the original game, but don't let the original game be a rigid blueprint for the game. Take cues from System Shock 2 and the Bioshock games. Cubes feel old. Constant low ceilings feel dated. Take plenty of liberty with the level design that isn't present in the screenshots in order to give us a game that a player can immerse ourselves in today's gaming landscape. Open spaces up. Bring in more angles, more roundness, whatever. Just give us a more believable world that feels lifelike instead of a reskinned relic.

The sound is going to be huge in creating atmosphere
Again, take cues from SS2 and Bioshock. SS2 has an awesome atmosphere and 75% of that is specifically the audio. I'm not talking about techno music that plays (which I leave off because it actually interferes with my immersion), I mean the heavy atmospheric layers found throughout the game. The game is very heavy and unsettling, and that is in large part solely due to the audio aspect of the game. A lifelike and expressive soundscape is AS IMPORTANT as the visuals when it comes to creating atmosphere.

Remember what a large part scarcity plays in a scary atmosphere
This is pretty self-explanatory, but this is a big design aspect that has a LOT of impact on the central atmosphere to the game. Careful rationing of resources is integral to a scary atmosphere. It's honestly the biggest thing that sets Resident Evil apart from Call of Duty. Remember the cheat in RE2 that gives you a rocket launcher in the beginning? Immediately changes the game from a horror game into a blow-everything-the-fuck-up game. Remember - we want to be immersed in a scary atmosphere. You don't feel isolated and scared if you're strapped like Rambo, ready to just blast away everything that comes at you. Look at Amnesia - you're scared solely because you really have no way to defend yourself at all.

I'd really love to see more RPG aspects, ala SS2
This one is probably a pipe dream, but I loved the element of choice on how to handle a situation given to the player in SS2. I'm all for anything that gives meaningful decisions which reward or consequence the player in the way that they see fit. I'm not going to hold my breath over this in the remake, but it would be awesome to see a similar system retrofitted for SS1 in this remake of the game.

[67345e991fd38XKILLJOY98]

- Make a serious effort to fix cyberspace, but if you can't, just scratch it. It's a nice idea in general and I don't like to see features cut instead of being improved upon but it can't stay the way it is.

I don't see what was wrong with cyberspace, I liked it quite a bit as is.

Thanks to everyone who shared suggestions and ideas so far - it's given us a lot to think about and consider. We're in the process of cataloging them all and will be discussing them internally. For now here are some answers/replies to some of them:

I'll be answering more questions soon!

   

I have a few questions, if you don't mind:

How exactly are you changing cyberspace, I enjoyed it quit a bit as is, so I hope that you aren't changing it too much.

How exactly are you changing the music, I enjoyed it quit a bit as is, so I hope that you aren't changing it too much, a simply audio refinement of the original music, while adding new music to areas that previously reused music would be great.

I know that a lot of people mentioned the level design, and from what I've seen you seem to be staying true to the original. So my question is, how much are you changing the level design (if any at all), if you are not changing it all, that's fine with me, if you are making a few areas more realistic, while keeping the same overall level design, that's fine too, I just hope that if you do that it will have the same overall layout and not change too much, so which is it?

A lot of people have said similar things, but I would like to re-emphasize the importance of a few things:

Stay true to the feeling of the original game
What is the System Shock series most known for? Its beautifully terrifying atmosphere. The feeling of isolation that a lone player feels in space against an army of monsters. This deep atmosphere is the key to finding the heart of System Shock, and it is ageless. Though much else has aged, this aspect is what makes SS so timeless. The atmosphere in SS is king - design everything else in the game to emphasize it and exploit it, not take away from it.

I'd argue that the series is known for a lot more than just it's horror atmosphere, because while I felt that there was a bit of horror in the games, that's not what I remember them for, and I consider them to be sci-fi games with horror elements rather than fully horror games, but hey, to each their own.

[67345e991ff56microspam]

I'll be honest, I'm not sure that a remake is a good idea.

I'd be pretty excited for a remake, but there is a sequel in the works. I'd prefer a new experience over a polished old one. The original Shock games have their rough edges, but people have to toughen up and endure them. System Shock was less of a game, and was more of an endurance test. It pushed you to your absolute limits (on the harder difficulties) and made you really question your skill. I loved that!

The question is, will the remake do the same? Many remakes have screwed up before. This one could easily do the same.

Even if the original developers are involved, it doesn't really change much. People change over the years, whether for the better or worse. Some become hellbent on recapturing their former glory and strive too hard to create something too much like their "Magnum Opus". I am really worried that this remake blow up in Night Dive's face along with the appointed budgets.

[67345e9920124icemann]

Well it depends on the quality of the remake and how much it sticks with the gameplay of the original.

If it's something like what Dune 2000 for example took the base game, improved the gameplay and music, added better music as well as excellent FMV sequences (very Command and Conquer-ish in style).

Metroid Zero mission was another great example of an excellent remake.

So if they take the base game of System Shock 1, keep the audio/email logs, stick with the original gameplay style but improve the visuals, then that's fine by me. So this could be great, but getting it just right will be a tricky slope.

[67345e9920663Dazzle!!]

I don't see what was wrong with cyberspace, I liked it quite a bit as is.
   

I have a few questions, if you don't mind:

How exactly are you changing cyberspace, I enjoyed it quit a bit as is, so I hope that you aren't changing it too much.

How exactly are you changing the music, I enjoyed it quit a bit as is, so I hope that you aren't changing it too much, a simply audio refinement of the original music, while adding new music to areas that previously reused music would be great.

I know that a lot of people mentioned the level design, and from what I've seen you seem to be staying true to the original. So my question is, how much are you changing the level design (if any at all), if you are not changing it all, that's fine with me, if you are making a few areas more realistic, while keeping the same overall level design, that's fine too, I just hope that if you do that it will have the same overall layout and not change too much, so which is it?
 

I'd argue that the series is known for a lot more than just it's horror atmosphere, because while I felt that there was a bit of horror in the games, that's not what I remember them for, and I consider them to be sci-fi games with horror elements rather than fully horror games, but hey, to each their own.

It sounds like you don't want a remake. You want a... well, hey, let me help you out here:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/410710/

[67345e992077bHikari]

Bit off topic but I'm hoping the engine design and shakedown they're doing will mean other games they have will get proper remakes. IE Powerslave, Strife, etc.  Far as I'm aware they wanted to go full on HD textured remake with strife but couldn't because the money wasn't there.

[67345e9920881RocketMan]

One masterpiece at a time friend... one at a time.

I'm sure the reception and success of their first game will set the pace for future works.

[67345e9920976Hikari]

This is partially why I want to go full bore on getting hype for the Remake. Even if I would rather they go direct for System Shock 3, this will set the tone for what they're able to do later. More Hype will hopefully translate to More Money.

[67345e9920b71Join2]

I don't think "one" is in Night Dive's vocabulary. Kick's been very busy building his empire since the SS2 GOG release: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Dive_Studios

I'm currently playing their Turok remaster. It's very faithful, updates what you'd expect without imposing on the original design, much the same as the SS:EE. Night Dive are likely going to higher places at this rate, and as long as they keep doing what they are doing (minus the SS2Tool misdeed) then I'm very happy with that.

I've yet to play Strife, I may check that out next.

[67345e9920c8bHikari]

It's based on chocolate strife, but colored lights, and a few different bits and bobs fixed. It is pretty well like the original except with more save slots and some minor level tweaks. Given it came out in 96 and due to time and budget constraints they didn't actually add much they did very good. Just... keep in mind it's a doom engine fps at its heart and you'll be fine.

A remake/remaster I would want a long list of things.

[67345e9920f82Olfred]

When it comes to old games, I'm happy when there is an adaption/port so they work under new systems.
Preferably with support for modern resolutions.
Not everything needs a remake.

[67345e992109dvoodoo47]

yeah, while I didn't play it myself yet (waiting for a discount, $20 is a bit too pricey for my taste), from what I've seen around the 'net, the Turok re-release is spot on - new OS and modern resolution support, game overhauled/all stupid removed, and the original spirit/all good stuff preserved. that's how things should be done.

[67345e99211b7RocketMan]

While I'm against the need for a remake, one good thing that will hopefully come out of it is forced exposure to SS1 game elements that will hopefully get the team acclimated and excited about stuff they can put into SS3.  I've been waiting a loooong long time to fight that damn cortex reaver mono a mono.

[67345e99212faHikari]

Nightdive's Wiki page says they're also going to do a System Shock 2 remake. Anyone know anything about this? I mean on the one hand, great, that would unify design elements, allow patching of plotholes (Like how the fsk beta grove got out there... personaly I like Infinite's approach to that question... and everything else.)

Someone seeing 'oh remake of the first one, they're doing a third one. Logical to just ASSUME they'll do a remake of 2 just to round it out?

[67345e9921607Join2]

yeah, while I didn't play it myself yet (waiting for a discount, $20 is a bit too pricey for my taste), from what I've seen around the 'net, the Turok re-release is spot on - new OS and modern resolution support, game overhauled/all stupid removed, and the original spirit/all good stuff preserved. that's how things should be done.

It requires a bit of tweaking to get the player character to handle more like Quake than a game designed primarily for the N64, but other than that there really wasn't much stupid to begin with. A large arsenal of weaponry, sprawling non-linear level design to conquer, high difficulty, lots of platforming and running & gunning, very much a classic FPS the likes of which modern ultra-dumb shooters have little in common with, and the sequel is even better. Night Dive have the rights to that too so hopefully we'll see a release in the near future.

[67345e99218a4voodoo47]

Nightdive's Wiki page says they're also going to do a System Shock 2 remake.

I'd say it's dependent on how the SS1 remake will fare - I imagine that if it's a success then going for SS2 would be the next logical step.

just hoping we can convince them to stay away from the GUI, as it's pretty much perfect as it is.

[67345e9921996Hikari]

I personally want ss1's remake to use a variant of shock2's UI, but instead of psi, have your personal power/charge state under health.