If Shock2 gets remade what do we want?

[673f53ec47a0cHikari]

Let's be optimistic and say Shock1 does well enough that they'll want to redo system shock 2 so it better lines up and we don't have 'remake of 1 that looks pretty nice,' 'shock2 is showing its age but is still serviceable,' 'System shock 3.'

For me here is my wishlist:

Rework the weapon trainers so that they make more sense. Yes I"m very blatantly stealing from a discussion in General. However it's a very good idea.
Melee: Not even sure if this should be a thing or if it should just be strength that augments how it works. But the Wrench, Laser Rapier, and Crystal Shard should go here.
Small arms: Pistol, Energy pistol, stasis generator, one of the analid guns (forget what it's called, the curvey looking thing in diego's quarters.)
'large weapons:' The problem here is how to have it make sense. The Assault Rifle and EMP rifle are both fairly similar, but the worm launcher is more of a shoulder bazooka, and the grenade launcher acts different, so lumping those four in a single catagory is no good. At the same time splitting the categories further ends up being 'is this one weapon worth investing in?'

Honestly I'd borrow a bit from system shock infinite and have the ghost sequences convey more information, and have korenchkin as a persistent blockade as opposed to just kinda showing up at the end. I LIKED Infinite's portrayal of korenchkin and the Many overall.

For the love of god someone make the Rickenbacker feel less like random coridors turned into a maze..

Y'know what. Otherside. Find and hire Christine. Please? I loved her levels. Barring that, look at how she made ponterbee and NIghtwalker and learn from that.

Rework the last level so there's a little bit more enemy variety. I went in expecting to have all robotic enemies, ghostly crewmembers given a 'cyborg' appearance, abstract objects to have to shoot, and all. Again, look at how system shock infinite did things because its last level was pretty solidly awesome. Ditto for the shodan fight being puzzle as much as anything else.

Would be kinda nice if we got a tutorial section that felt less... fourth wall breaking. Like take that earth section and have it for basic movement and worldbuilding, but have the actual tutorial broken up into the tour of duty missions themselves, since the whole point is to teach a skill you will want to use.

[673f53ec47c1ffox]

Best case scenario for me: they get SS1 right and together with SS3 the franchise gets heaps of praise and good sales. All the money coming in from that should be invested in a new entry not in a remake. SS2 with mods is still enjoyable for a younger generation with a real interest in the franchise or type of game. Once people started playing, dated graphics and co become less of an issue.

[673f53ec47d9fLearonys]

At this current stage i believe that there is not much that could turn SS2 into a better game than it already is, with all the graphics mods and gameplay tweaks. Rebuilding a game to only adjust minor issues like weapon degradation and more realistic explostions/rubble honestly sounds like a waste of money to me, SS1 is justified because there is simply so much graphical improvement to be made, and is played by less people so there is incentive for even more people to play it if they hear from it. After all, why pay for a remake of a game which still holds onto it's own so well?

[673f53ec47f62voodoo47]

here I'm very sure what I want - copy paste the game into a new engine, add all SCP fixes, maybe slight tweaks here and there (like making repair skill a bit more useful).

plus, proper second part of Rickenbacker, proper BotM.

[673f53ec48136Valet2]

Today my bro told me about apps for several PC games. For example, you can use a pipboy on your smartphone while using Fallout 4, or play Battlefield 4 manipulating some stuff on a tablet. I must say it was totally new for me. I didn't even think about this. The first idea came to me was a complete inventory for System Shock 2, with all information that's going on, research meter, logs etc. So THAT would be great to implement, maybe in SS1 Remake.

[673f53ec4834fJoin2]

@Voodoo47: Hey now, there's loads that could be done than a mere...what did you call it before? "engine clone". Granted, it's mostly thousands of subtleties, but still.
Have you played Secmod? It's not perfect but definitely notable for things like better AI behavior, better weapon modification, rebalanced RPG systems, new special effects etc. Other mods include higher music quality. So don't give me that engine + SCP only nonsense. Sorry, not intending to be argumentative but I think you were being unfair and own horn-tooting, which individually are not too bad but together are ugly. Give Secmod a try if you haven't already. If SCP is a community patch, Secmod is community design progression (aside from a few flaws here and there).

[673f53ec48447voodoo47]

I'm aware, but that is simply how I feel about SS2.

[673f53ec48616Hikari]

For me the graphics are fine given the texture updates, though having a team of professionals go after a few of the more wonky models wouldn't hurt.

It's more 'rolll everything in a nice package that we won't have to depend on a mystery savior to keep updating (then again I'm the guy in the Nightdive Request thread that suggested off site source code backups to archive.org since we do NOT want to lose the source for the sake of future proofing.)


Then there's all those thousand and one things in the background that engines can do now (even unity) I'm sure the Dark Engine, even with newdark, can't without hacks and workarounds. I don't particularly see shock2 as needing an update outside of 'can we get NightDive to ask permission to bundle the community patch in?0 Mostly it's 'if they're going to at some point I want them to see what we think should be tackled.'

[673f53ec48799ZylonBane]

I would like whatever Irrational had planned for SS2 Gold.

[673f53ec48e6bRocketMan]

here I'm very sure what I want - copy paste the game into a new engine, add all SCP fixes, maybe slight tweaks here and there (like making repair skill a bit more useful).

plus, proper second part of Rickenbacker, proper BotM.

Mostly agree, particularly with regards to balance.  Take ammo away from the later levels.

[673f53ec4901eXKILLJOY98]

Here's what I would add:

-Better graphics and character models

-cyberspace sequences

-improved voice acting in a few of the audio logs/emails

-possibly a few new weapons such as a pipe, pool cue, etc.

-the ability to mod the game and still have the game downloaded in the program files

I'm sure there is more, but those are the main things that I would add.

[673f53ec49ab3voodoo47]

forgot to react to this.

-Better graphics and character models

well, duh.

-cyberspace sequences

hammering things that weren't in the original game in without people having an allergic reaction might be tough.

-improved voice acting in a few of the audio logs/emails

I do not remember any audio that would feel sub par or out of place.

-possibly a few new weapons such as a pipe, pool cue, etc.

the orig game had enough weapons - making sure they are well balanced should be more important.

have the game downloaded in the program files

wat.


and actually, the SCP topic has reminded me about an idea I/we had some time ago - while it might be costly in manhours and people may end up not liking it too much, for a SS2 remake, it may be worth considering reshaping the levels so they would actually form a proper starship when put together.

[673f53ec49f38JML]

[...]
and actually, the SCP topic has reminded me about an idea I/we had some time ago - while it might be costly in manhours and people may end up not liking it too much, for a SS2 remake, it may be worth considering reshaping the levels so they would actually form a proper starship when put together.

I like the idea so very much... I probably would even learn a way to help. 

[673f53ec4a053ZylonBane]

Fry's dog!

[673f53ec4a1damack]

-cyberspace sequences

Although it controlled like a$$, i really loved the cyberspace parts of SS1:EE, mostly because of how it's exactly how i imagined it in neuromancer! Pixels and all.
I hope that the SS1 remake keeps to a similar aesthetic with that. And I would love to see them in a SS2 remake.

I think they could be easily implemented by simply having the cyberspace minigame appear in place of hack minigame in the hacking window. (i remember hacking in ss2 sucking pretty bad anyway, plus i'm p sure it was exactly the same as the repair and upgrade minigames right?)

[673f53ec4a361Aaron]

The voice acting in SS1 and SS2 is certainly dated, especially some of the stuff by Stephen Russel (and I love his work in Thief - jumped ship on Thi4f as soon as I heard he wasn't involved).

I would love to see SS2 remade if SS1 remastered is a success. Sure, it's playable with modding, but it's not capturing any new imaginations at this point, just getting replayed by fans. Why anyone would be against a remake is beyond me. It seems selfish and contrarian not to assume a little faith in NightDive should they suggest they could do a good job.

[673f53ec4a67afox]

I would love to see SS2 remade if SS1 remastered is a success. Sure, it's playable with modding, but it's not capturing any new imaginations at this point, just getting replayed by fans. Why anyone would be against a remake is beyond me. It seems selfish and contrarian not to assume a little faith in NightDive should they suggest they could do a good job.

Because a new entry with the best possible funding would (possibly/hopefully) capture even more new fans. Remakes of old cult hits on the other hand are incredibly hard to get right and still cost a lot of money. If you have played and enjoyed the original, it is beyond me why anyone would want a remake instead of a proper new entry. (Not really but certainly if it's an "either this or that"-situation.)

[673f53ec4a7baAaron]

We have that already with SS3. NightDive hasn't said anything, but since we're already here speculating, I will say that if it makes financial sense for them to announce they're to take a shot at it, then that's good enough for me. Depending on how SS1 looks upon completion, they may already have much of the groundwork laid to save costs on a remake of the sequel.

Now, whether rabid purist fans who devote of all of their leisure time to trolling decades old forums keep them from even wanting to try is another matter.

[673f53ec4a8bcAaron]

(Not that that's you, fox, I have a few others in mind.)

I'm not saying it would make sense for NightDive to try, but I'm saying that if I did, you won't see me complaining! I'd rather rally behind them if they did announce an SS2 remake than insist SS2 is perfect and they should keep their hands off.

[673f53ec4ab25ZylonBane]

I would love to see SS2 remade if SS1 remastered is a success. Sure, it's playable with modding, but it's not capturing any new imaginations at this point, just getting replayed by fans.

False. I've seen lots of posts around the internet from people who've only recently played SS2 for the first time, and loved it.

[673f53ec4adfdOlfred]

Yeah!
If you are open to older games and don't just ignore them because they are "old and ugly", what a lot of people do. You can really find some gems among them.
Anyone with that mindset will probably enjoy SS2 as it stands out among the usual "every game is the same because marketing said it sells good" you have in masses nowaday.
That's one of the reasons Dark Souls is so popular, it's just different. (and yeah, good).

[673f53ec4b11eJoin2]

That's one of the reasons Dark Souls is so popular, it's just different. (and yeah, good).

A common misconception. Dark Souls is a typical console action JRPG. See: Kings Field, Vagrant Story, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, Onimusha: Dawn of Dreams or even the original Devil May Cry.
About the only things innovative/new about it are the multiplayer features in tandem with the singleplayer: the messages and invasions.

I tend to think one of the reasons it's so popular is it is a good old school-styled game that is a breath of fresh air among the horrible modern design practices.

[673f53ec4b2d0Kolya]

Well it must be somewhat different, considering the hype it has generated, no?
https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/4el89e/this_couple_is_celebrating_the_new_member_of/

[673f53ec4b3b3chickenhead]

The comments below make the post even better.