New Fan Mission

[67401a2e01adeunn_atropos]

I'm on the other hand are a bit disappointed, because I had been looking forward to a new FM.
There is no game I know that would be compareable to the specific atmosphere of any System Shock 2 level (original or fan made).
Everything about it is very close to my heart; how the game looks, feels, sounds...
And I wouldn't see the restrictiveness of the editor as a turn off, but instead a challenge to get something awesome out of it.

Nonetheless; good luck with your project!

[67401a2e01cf7Aurora]

Naturally I also love the atmosphere of the System Shock games, from the visuals, sounds, and soundtrack, to the method of storytelling via logs of former crew members long after most events already took place. However, there is only so much new that can be done with the existing assets, that has not already been done by other FM authors. The System Shock 2 engine does not lend itself for things like exploring what a metropolis looks like in 2085. I realise that closed spaces are elemental to the System Shock experience, and working within limitations is what forced game developers of the past to be creative, produce handcrafted details in every unique area, and make the environment awe-inspiring even without the physical vastness permitted by later engines. However, I already acknowledge and appreciate these things without the yoke of arbitrary technical limitations. Besides, since I am creating brand new assets, I may as well use a new engine while I am at it.

[67401a2e01e77icemann]

Well if you look at what has been pulled off with the Doom 1 & 2 engine, there is some damn fine looking levels done there .

[67401a2e02048Aurora]

I am not sure if you were drawing an analogy, but Doom is a completely different type of engine, as well as being open source.

You can do things like this:
http://www.prodigal-game.com/doomstuff/Forest2.png
http://i.imgur.com/OqtoGt3.png

However, they are only possible through modified source ports. System Shock 2 is not open source, therefore cannot be modified in the same way to include extra features nor increase engine limits. I know NewDark's source code is somewhere out there, but modifying and releasing that veers into legal gray areas.

[67401a2e02291icemann]

Unless Night Dive does some sort of release of the source code for SS2 as well. Though I find that HIGHLY unlikely.

And of course on the engine stuff. I was more thinking of the excellent city-based levels that have come out over the years. Very well detailed stuff. Several have been extensive recreations of home towns, small cities etc etc.

Though before the source was out for Doom 1 & 2, there was the Wolfendoom series (think Wolf 3D storyline continued on by the fans in the Doom engine) and that had pretty well detailed and designed levels as well. And that was straight up pure vanilla Doom 1 & 2 engine stuff.

Image: http://media.moddb.com/cache/images/mods/1/24/23299/thumb_620x2000/rgold43.jpg
Image: http://media.moddb.com/cache/images/mods/1/24/23299/thumb_620x2000/rgold10.jpg

[67401a2e023c8Aurora]

I remember this actually and found it very impressive. I always thought this is what ID should have done with Doom II's urban levels. Nevertheless, don't expect seeing into, let alone accessing 95% of the buildings, nor having detailed building facades, especially if you had highrises, lots of windows, saw far down a street or a long vertical distance, etc.

[67401a2e0250eicemann]

In the vanilla version of Doom definitely. In the source ports multi-floor wads were done, though this was generally restricted to 2 floors. I've not seen any (or that I can recall) that had more than that. Some used teleporter tricks to make it look like there was more.

[67401a2e0268bAurora]

I do love to see level designers pull off stuff like that with a low-end engine. There is something magical about the handicraft one finds in old games that have been pushed to the maximum. Art style over technical quality.

http://i.imgur.com/L7eRSYDh.png
http://i.imgur.com/uEKPAMRh.png

The technical level of detail I am doing is maybe circa 2000-2002, not the triple A level that UE4 allows.

[67401a2e02a72ZylonBane]

...the yoke of arbitrary technical limitations.

Technical limitations are by definition not arbitrary.

[67401a2e02dbcicemann]

I do love to see level designers pull off stuff like that with a low-end engine. There is something magical about the handicraft one finds in old games that have been pushed to the maximum. Art style over technical quality.

Completely agree. I am blown away with the stuff people pull off in older engines. TCs (Total Conversions) are my favorites. Taking games in completely new/somewhat different directions to the base game that their built off.

In slightly newer than Doom's case, some of the stuff pulled off in Half-Life 1's engine was just legendary. The "They Hunger" series, Azure Sheep etc etc. Damn fine excellent work.

I absolutely LOVE the mod scene and always will for reasons like this.

For other games I just love the added singleplayer content that they bring with them. The mods for the first "Neverwinter Nights" game (hundreds of them), the UGC campaigns for "Shadowrun Returns". Love it, love it, love it.

[67401a2e03352Aurora]

Technical limitations are by definition not arbitrary.

Not entirely true. For instance when the Half-Life engine was being modified by a mod team (Sven Co-op) that was given its source code, and the BSP compiler was being updated by a certain someone (Vluzcan), it was discovered that numerous things such as the entity count were controlled by variables set arbitrarily to something far lower than the engine was actually capable of handling.

In this case of course, I meant arbitrary as in to refer to the choice of a more restricted engine when a better one is available.

Completely agree. I am blown away with the stuff people pull off in older engines. TCs (Total Conversions) are my favorites. Taking games in completely new/somewhat different directions to the base game that their built off.

In slightly newer than Doom's case, some of the stuff pulled off in Half-Life 1's engine was just legendary. The "They Hunger" series, Azure Sheep etc etc. Damn fine excellent work.

I absolutely LOVE the mod scene and always will for reasons like this.

For other games I just love the added singleplayer content that they bring with them. The mods for the first "Neverwinter Nights" game (hundreds of them), the UGC campaigns for "Shadowrun Returns". Love it, love it, love it.

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt - I was with the Half-Life modding scene from 2000 onwards, and I dearly miss it. The good tools, abundant resources, and large audience made creativity in game modding flourish like I had never seen before. Some favourites of mine include Chemical Existence, Timeline II: Iced Earth, Point of View, Poke 646, Wanted, Afraid of Monsters, Cry of Fear, Paranoia, The Specialists. I even made some stuff myself - some of the still existing works for Sven Co-op are available here: http://scmapdb.com/mapper:aurora

[67401a2e03476icemann]

Thanks for the heads up on those HL1 mods. I've played Point of View, Afraid of Monsters and Paranoia. All quite good.

Is "Wanted" a singleplayer or multiplayer mod? Couldn't find any details on their moddb.com page?

[67401a2e03645Aurora]

Both.

There is also a mod-turned-standalone game that is probably my most favourite total conversion ever; Gunman Chronicles. This game originally got me into Half-Life proper. I will let the screenshots speak for themselves...

http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/527007-gunman-chronicles-windows-screenshot-two-a-i-sides-locked.jpg
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/526999-gunman-chronicles-windows-screenshot-the-aliens-are-attacking.jpg
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/527014-gunman-chronicles-windows-screenshot-standard-energy-pistol.jpg
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/527009-gunman-chronicles-windows-screenshot-driving-the-tank.jpg

[67401a2e03782Valet2]

Gunman, Azure Sheep and Poke 646 are great!

Here's me with a friend playing They Hunger 3 in... 2002!! All zombies voices are ours

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFDU5utbTDg

[67401a2e03942icemann]

Oh man.

I just gave Chemical Existance a go for the first time. That is one of the worst TCs for a game that I've ever played. And it corrupted my Half-Life installation folder. Had to completely delete it and reinstall. Even after patching the mod to 1.1 it still had issues, like not having any of the controls setup in the config file which even if you go and manually fix it yourself (via copying in the missing bindings), the slightest change will mess it up again. Grrr. And they didn't bother to extract their models out of the .pak file, so the first time I ran it and got an error about a missing model file, which meant finding a .pak viewer and extracter to fix that.

Those sniper punk chicks that say "hey let's get wasted" before shooting at you are so annoying. I couldn't play it after the 3rd level. Gah.

No offense intended Aurora, but that was horrible. I've played bad fan stuff before, but man. That was bad. I mean they did some good stuff like the custom models and weapons, but there is just so much wrong with that TC it's not funny.

Onto Afraid of Monsters DC.

[67401a2e03a7dAurora]

You do realise it was released years before Steam existed? When I played it in the early 2000s, I did not experience any of those issues. Due to updates to Half-Life and the introduction of Steam, it has probably been made incompatible and bugged since. I recommend trying it on a pure CD installation of Half-Life.

[67401a2e03d4cicemann]

Well to give a comparison:

I'm a few hours now into Afraid of Monsters DC and that has none of the issues. Absolutely loving this mod btw. The music when you first switch the lights off with all the zombies rushing at you out of nowhere. Damn .

All I'm giving is first impressions.

I've not played a Half-Life mod is like 7-8 years at least. Your earlier post inspired me to get around to playing a few that were on the todo list.

[67401a2e03f6bAurora]

I'm a few hours now into Afraid of Monsters DC and that has none of the issues.

That is probably because Afraid of Monsters DC was released over 10 years later than Chemical Existence, on a modern Steam distribution of Half-Life, so my point stands. Unfortunately several mods will have been broken over the course of that decade.

I've not played a Half-Life mod is like 7-8 years at least. Your earlier post inspired me to get around to playing a few that were on the todo list.

I am glad they are being remembered and still receiving the love they deserve from new players~

One that I already mentioned but should highlight is Timeline II. While not technically impressive nor a total conversion, since it uses stock content for the most part, it is the single mod with the coolest (pun intended) atmosphere and scenery I have experienced. It has lots of grand open spaces that create an epic sense of scale.

http://www.hlspain.com/articulos/imagenes/timeline/castillonazi.jpg

[67401a2e040bbZylonBane]

Looking at videos for some of these mods, I'm reminded that, even though GoldSrc was generally considered visually superior to the Dark engine, it's aged a hell of a lot worse. There's just something blocky, blurry, and low-detail about those old Half-Life maps. Somehow Dark manages to make levels and textures that aren't much higher-detail look so much better. Maybe it's the lighting engine... most Half-Life maps seems to have very little shadowing, with flat lighting on everything.

[67401a2e0421ficemann]

Have to agree completely.

Playing through AOMDC there were numerous points where I thought "Man this has aged really badly and could use a texture upgrade project", especially as the mod has you collecting keys for specifically named doors, then the textures for said doors was such low quality that they were barely readable.

Aurora: Just take my comments as that of someone's first impressions playing some HL1 mods in 2016. Much as the case often is of people playing SS2 FMs for the first time and posting their comments here. Some games age better than others. Half-Life 1 definitely hasn't aged as well as SS2 has.

[67401a2e0456dOlfred]

Half-Life does have pretty good lighting. But for some reason map creators tend to just light everything up to 100%
If you look at "The Specialists" IIRC, they had some good lighted maps.
The problem about everything looking so block is that on the Half-Life engine, everything is flat shaded. Whereas the Dark engine allows some smoothed shading. And the extensive use of world prop models. Something not that common in Half-Life, not by the game itself, nor from the mod community.

But Half-Life just wins when it comes to customizeability. There is just too much hard coded on Dark.

[67401a2e046adZylonBane]

It also doesn't help that it seemed like Half-Life had maybe a dozen ambient sounds for the entire game. There was... electrical crackle, steam burst, computer beeps, creepy nondescript creaking metal ambient loop, creepy howling wind, creepy turbine, and... probably one or two others? Not really much of a soundscape.

[67401a2e04d8dAurora]

Half-Life does have pretty good lighting. But for some reason map creators tend to just light everything up to 100%

When a map compiles incorrectly and fails to create the hulls for collision and visibility due to a leak portal, then raytracing to generate lighting cannot be performed as the rays could go to infinity etc. This means the lighting will be pitch black - except that the game helpfully enables a variable called fullbright ('fullbright 1'), which essentially disables the lightmap completely. Basically fullbright maps are absolute novice maps, and Half-Life is not supposed to look like that at all.

The problem about everything looking so block is that on the Half-Life engine, everything is flat shaded. Whereas the Dark engine allows some smoothed shading.

Half-Life is not flat shaded. If yours is flat shaded, then any one of the following three is the case:
- we are not playing the same game
- there is a hardware and or driver issue
- fullbright is 1 instead of 0

It also doesn't help that it seemed like Half-Life had maybe a dozen ambient sounds for the entire game. There was... electrical crackle, steam burst, computer beeps, creepy nondescript creaking metal ambient loop, creepy howling wind, creepy turbine, and... probably one or two others? Not really much of a soundscape.

http://www.netshark.us/valve/sounds/ambience/
http://www.adminmod.org/manual/Admin_Mod_Reference/Half_Life_Sounds.htm#ambience
I count quite a few more...

Half-Life 1 definitely hasn't aged as well as SS2 has.

I don't know - personally I think the detailed BSP geometry managed to pull off something SS2 could not. For details SS2 relies on props, but then they will repeat far more often than individually crafted details in a HL map. I do not see how one has aged better than the other. There are high-definition packs available for Half-Life just as there are for SS2, support for detail textures and super high resolution textures, support for special render modes on model skins, etc.

[67401a2e04ec2Olfred]

Yeah, you are right, it's not flat shaded.
Guess it's been too long that I fired it up and my memory is just hazy as usual.
But comparing both games. SS2 seems to have smoother shading than Half-Life. Also, even at maximum light it's still a tad darker than Half-Life.