SSR: System Shock Kickstarter

[6742d9bd1af78voodoo47]

went through the comments, and yeah, the RPG elements are no longer a stretch goal and are officially in.

[6742d9bd1b122Zanderat]

To me, it means that "RPG" elements were never about stats.  In fact it sounds similar to SS, in that you find better weapons, etc. as the game goes along.

[6742d9bd1b2d3icemann]

Well it says about adding in abilities you pickup along the way + presumably upgrades to those over the course of the game.

I do have to say that this new explanation has won me over, as it's not turning the game into SS2 at all. The existing game had this already with the various tech addons you'd find.

So with that in place, I've re-backed it. I want to play this, even if I end up hating it. Curiosity has got the better of me.

Please don't fuck this up Night Dive.

[6742d9bd1b63cRocketMan]

Well, on the bright side, if they do fuck it up, at least they'll have plenty of criticisms from us so they don't make the same mistakes on SS3.  That's what I care about.  They can't possibly ruin SS1 for me because it will always exist in a form that I'm perfectly happy with.

[6742d9bd1b766CaveManta]

True, hopefully they will learn from SSR, so they don't mess up SS3. But if they do mess it up, we've got a team of experienced modders in this forum who can learn Unity and fix it up, eh? 

[6742d9bd1b8cbZylonBane]

If SS3 is as different as SS2 was from SS1, I don't see how learning anything from SSR will be much a relevant factor.

[6742d9bd1ba57Hikari]

Sure it would Zylon. This teaches them how the fans react to the concept of 'change.' How fans and customers view the franchise, kinks in the actual design, coding, and testing process, and it helps them learn ho to deal with media and properly generating attention for their project.

[6742d9bd1bbe6RocketMan]

ZB has a point since a lot of the guts of the game will not be carry-over but I think there's some types of feedback which are universally useful, even if the game is completely different.  The devs will get to know the sorts of niggles that we find irritating (stuff like orchestral scores for space views and overdone post-processing) and things we really like (the direction that the art is going for example).  This way they can play to their strengths more and abandon some of the extraneous ideas that never flew with their audience (stuff like adding game characters named after backers).  Granted these examples are of somewhat trivial importance IMO because what really matters is that they get the gameplay right and to some extent, the story follows and develops well too.  That sort of thing can probably also benefit from feedback but I can't think of how at the moment.  Perhaps the utility of such feedback will emerge in time.

[6742d9bd1bf8cKolya]

Sure it would Zylon. This teaches them how the fans react to the concept of 'change.'

[6742d9bd1c0fcJosiahJack]

Always wondered what hacker looked like with all the hardware attached.

[6742d9bd1c1ffCaveManta]

How does Hacker lean so far with all that junk on his head, and why don't enemies see it sticking out when he leans around corners?

[6742d9bd1c2ebKolya]

They see the Aerosmith shirt and promptly ignore him. Kinda like girls born after 1990.
That's what makes it so immersive!

[6742d9bd1c431Gawain]

Why is the next achievement SS2 livestream and not SS1?

[6742d9bd1c511voodoo47]

better mouselook.

[6742d9bd1c816Zanderat]

They see the Aerosmith shirt and promptly ignore him. Kinda like girls born after 1990.
That's what makes it so immersive!

Oh boy.

 I am from Boston and have seen Aerosmith countless times (even back in the day, bars before they hit it big).  I probably have at least 10-15 Aerosmith shirts from different points in their career.

 

[6742d9bd1ca1dHikari]

Latest update reveals all the stretch goals: VR, Graphic Novel, Modding support...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/1639514

On the one hand I would so be on board for a graphic novel. On the other, with two days left to go and these goals requiring at least another million dollars it feels like a bit of a tease at what might have been.

Especially cruel is holding system shock 1's source hostage. Dick move guys.... Dick move. I can understand simply releasing the source as is and offering no updates unless money is funneled in to allow support, but to go 'you get no source unless we get this money' just feels... Wrong.

[6742d9bd1cb62voodoo47]

the goal says "updated source code", so I am assuming/hoping that this just means if they won't get enough money, they will simply release it in its current, "raw" state.

but yeah "no code for anyone, ever, unless we get 2mil" would be a major.. lets say disappointment, as I like to avoid words that describe the lower digestive tract and reproductive systems in vulgar ways.

[6742d9bd1cfaeLearonys]

Latest update reveals all the stretch goals: VR, Graphic Novel, Modding support...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/1639514

On the one hand I would so be on board for a graphic novel. On the other, with two days left to go and these goals requiring at least another million dollars it feels like a bit of a tease at what might have been.

Especially cruel is holding system shock 1's source hostage. Dick move guys.... Dick move. I can understand simply releasing the source as is and offering no updates unless money is funneled in to allow support, but to go 'you get no source unless we get this money' just feels... Wrong.

I expressed my concerns on their Discord server, and luckily i managed to get a response. I don't think i should get too much trouble from quoting from their Discord server:

Real quickly.  Just spoke to stephen about source code stuff
Intention was definitely not to hold anything hostage
Sounds like it's not a trivial matter to just "release" it since it's messy at the moment.  Stephen wanted to clean it up, update stuff like the level editor, and get the old libraries working.  Once the project can be built and works decently, he'd feel comfortable releasing it
That would, of course, take time
The stretch goal would help cover that cost
If the stretch goal isn't met, he still wants to release the source code, but again, it would take time, so it would happen as soon as he's able to dedicate time/people to releasing it

[6742d9bd1d0ceHikari]

OK so basically the strech goal money would just speed things up? That... helps things along greatly.

[6742d9bd1d430voodoo47]

Once the project can be built and works decently, he'd feel comfortable releasing it

I'd reply with "don't worry about its state, just slap a provided-as-is sticker on it, and release all you have like yesterday". the world of System Shock (org) will forever be grateful.

[6742d9bd1d54cKolya]

Of course a cleaned up and building code base would be appreciated, but that could still happen after a release.

[6742d9bd1d6bdHikari]

On the one hand I would like them to try working on it. On the other look at the state of Doom. That code got released more or less 'as is no gurentees of anything' and we have a thousand and one ports working on everything from the first gen ipod and those cheapo sansa mp3 players, to digital cameras (and regrigerators. I shit you not doom got put on a 'smart' fridge,) to actual improvements on the engine (debate as you will on if brutal doom and its ilk improve gameplay, zdoom and all do add expanded capability.)

We are far fewer than Doom's community, but we have kept things going this long, improving and modding, and keeping the old things alive without source (debatably barring NewDark, I have no idea what wizardrey is involved there.) Imagine what we could do with said source?

[6742d9bd1d962voodoo47]

Of course a cleaned up and building code base would be appreciated, but that could still happen after a release.

as a small team with no extra hands to spare, they probably should focus their efforts on SSR, going gold in a year and half from now on is no easy goal. I'm pretty sure the community would be completely happy with the raw source - remember, there are people around here who have been wishing for this to happen for almost two decades now. they would devour the raw stuff and regurgitate rainbows before you can say cortex reaver on a stick.

[6742d9bd1da96RocketMan]

I don't understand the discrepant overlap between some of the stretch goals and the achievements.  What's with achievement 20 that just got reached?  Isn't that a rather expensive stretch goal or do I just not get what it entails?