SSR: System Shock Kickstarter

[67433afcdbf5bX-Tech !]

Second: They dont have money for reamake original soundtrack ? This is good joke too.

[67433afcdc193voodoo47]

everything you are talking about has been covered months ago (and in a much more creative, polite and grammatically correct way, I might add), just read the topics in this subforum.

to make it short, this ship has sailed, so no need for pointless chatter.

[67433afcdc59bAurora]

Yeah ? So why they showing so many new ideas ;P

What kind of an argument is that against anything? Yes, they have new ideas. That's great. Some of them we think are good, others we think are bad - but I for one am glad they have new ideas at all. Ultimately I would have preferred a whole new game, but if they are going to create System Shock again, then I would rather they come up with something original and new. What purpose would it serve to spend a $1.35 million creative effort on a totally identical remake - just so that some people can orgasm to seeing more pixels on the screen? What's more is you think that with a $1.35 million budget, NDS should divert their development efforts into two games so as to appease the most stubborn and nostalgic fans. If you love the original game so much, then go play it. If you're so unhappy with the remake, then make your own. If you want NDS to do your bidding and make two versions for you, then feel free to go donate to them.

[67433afcdc6a6X-Tech !]

They can expand but this should be perfect  co-work with System Shock 1,2 Story.

[67433afcdc7e7X-Tech !]

I cant be offened when they make this game really scary and add suspence here in certain situations especially by add some music silences and new trakcs so scary. I want piss pants like when i played first time System Shock 2 and get into enginerring sections and get visions of mass. This was sick experience and in Hydroponics was even more scary (my favourite part) Further parts was strange until Gravity Changed. Everything depends how game will be introduced.

[67433afcdcc84Join2]

What would make the most sense is if the groves supported different ecosystems. Tundra, taiga, desert, rainforest... they could be going through different seasons too, and different simulated times of day.

I love when reality aligns with good game design. Problem is we'll probably need new many new mutant strains unique to each ecology. Not a problem for the player, it's awesome for the player, but is a problem for the developers. Back story could be Shodan wanted to see how her pets evolved in each environment, or go the cheap way and say she grew them all in one grove, and unleashed them on the others around the time of the hacker's awakening. That way we don't need hundreds of different mutant types. But I don't even recall the vanilla backstory of the mutants beyond that they were Shodan's experiments, so meh.

I really hope NightDive pull off a good modern Immersive Sim, but expectations are low even though they have a solid template. That's not really their fault though, just the byproduct of 1000 burns from the industry.

[67433afcdd183RocketMan]

What purpose would it serve to spend a $1.35 million creative effort on a totally identical remake - just so that some people can orgasm to seeing more pixels on the screen? What's more is you think that with a $1.35 million budget, NDS should divert their development efforts into two games so as to appease the most stubborn and nostalgic fans.

You might want to ask  those "morons" at GearBox.  They made Homeworld: Remastered and it is awesome.

[67433afcdd494X-Tech !]

You might want to ask  those "morons" at GearBox.  They made Homeworld: Remastered and it is awesome.

Yeap. They just remastered game and not changed it. That is difference. Very good difference. Even music stay as in original. It looks like these guys from NIGHTDIVE STUDIO thinks they texture fun and graphic rearange give em law to change original game. No you cant do that. For example destroyed original game soundtrack and replaced it with something else - instead of just remake it. They added violin stuff cause they think "oh this is higher culture  what we make and we not understand original game music so - this is bettern than game as it was with violin things" No. Nightdive Studio absolutley not. System Shock 1 is not yours playground with sand. Remake is remake. Some people worked to imagine original SS1 and make it. Really change things which is base of game is bad. This is not NIGHTDIVE STUDIO game this is game of creators which make it at first position. No respecting game basic elements is huge sin.

[67433afcdd5dbX-Tech !]

But yeah. NIGHTDIVE STUDIO if you think System Shock 1 is your playground make it so scary as was never before and unpredictible for even people who finished System Shock 1 by making this really fearfull experience at almost each step.

[67433afcddaa4Aurora]

You might want to ask  those "morons" at GearBox.  They made Homeworld: Remastered and it is awesome.

You can make your case here if you would rather, as I have not played those games and am not about to. If the only difference in the remastered version is having more technically detailed graphics, then personally I do not see the purpose. I am not that big on technical quality to be able to justify spending an entire effort developing a new game solely to that end.

But yeah. NIGHTDIVE STUDIO if you think System Shock 1 is your playground make it so scary as was never before and unpredictible for even people who finished System Shock 1 by making this really fearfull experience at almost each step.

You should probably write a letter to NDS with your thoughts and criticisms phrased clearly and organised neatly into points and paragraphs - like here. That would be better than dozens of indistinct walls of text thrown across several threads where you're asserting what NDS 'should' do. Go write a letter and argue why your opinion should matter.

[67433afcddfacX-Tech !]

You can make your case here if you would rather, as I have not played those games and am not about to. If the only difference in the remastered version is having more technically detailed graphics, then personally I do not see the purpose. I am not that big on technical quality to be able to justify spending an entire effort developing a new game solely to that end.

This is purpose of remaking games....To give players of actuall gaming age - possibility to play game with graphic proper to present standards...Remaking of game is not in purpose to give new game for fans of original. I love Homweorld . This is amazing strategy game in space...Creators of series for fun of fans - making new parts. People who does remake suppose to remake game and give new players opportunity to play game if their barier is old technology of game technique.

[67433afcde181Join2]

In my book If you're remaking a game you should either set out to remake it as faithfully as possible, fixing minor things here and there, updating audio/visual experience...the purist remake. Or the alternative: seeking to remake it faithfully, while also expanding and striving to do it better. this is my favorite approach providing the remaker has the ability to do it "better" (ignoring there's notable subjectivity involved on the matter).
It seems Nightdive has gone for a mix of the second option, along with the third: updating it for modern audiences. Unless they truly believe no use mode, control-robbing anims and ladders, and orchestral/neurofunk score is doing it better. fuck knows. It's obvious few developers and even modders have the talent (or the intention) to even replicate or succeed LGS ingenuity though. It remains to be seen if NightDive qualify. I'm not judging them yet based on notable lack of data.

[67433afcde389RocketMan]

Indeed there is merit in doing different kinds of remakes.  My personal preferences are not relevant.  I only wanted to point out that there is a very good reason to re-do a game without really changing anything.  In fact one might argue we are doing that to SS2 every day... some of us, to different extents.  Why bother if the game hasn't really changed?  Because no matter how nostalgic we feel about the vanilla game, there are always limitations that we now wish hadn't been there.  Updating graphics, sound, controls and fixing bugs without changing anything else just makes a great game play even better with minimal risk of ruining it.  I'd say that makes commercial sense to me.  You can succeed tremendously with a reboot or whatever you call it but the risk is higher and you create a greater rift amongst players.  Those who love it will love it a lot and those who don't will hate it, with fewer in between because 'different' is tough to do well when you've already set a precedent. 

Ask yourself this:  If this forum wasn't really active in the modding sense and today ND re-released SS2 with what we now know as SHTUP, SHMUP, [the better parts of] Rebirth, NewDark and SCP, would you buy it?

My 2 cents anyway.

[67433afcde5f1Join2]

Does make sense, I'm just a big gameplay lover is all, and always desire gameplay to evolve, rather than the mass-devolution of the modern era we face.

Besides, it's impossible to update everything without some changes to gameplay, as it is frequently intertwined and relational with other aspects of design. The introduction of mouselooking to improve control makes the gameplay notably easier to the 1994 experience, so tweaks may be needed. the implementation of reload animations makes the game harder, as there is an additional period of vulnerability. adding new (much needed) audio effects adds gameplay cues, e.g mutant zombie-like moaning revealing their position. And so on...

Ask yourself this:  If this forum wasn't really active in the modding sense and today ND re-released SS2 with what we now know as SHTUP, SHMUP, [the better parts of] Rebirth, NewDark and SCP, would you buy it?

Sure, I am a big fan of the community's work here. Updating the game while respecting the original vision, the best kind of mod. I would be even happier if secmod was included in that list, perhaps as an optional game mode as it is not perfect. At least secmod 2. I've yet to play 3. With some purist tweaking I would consider it being optional unnecessary. Removal of features like gibbing Hybrids with shotgun blasts are needed, some small stuff like that.

[67433afcde971Dj 127]

Removal of features like gibbing Hybrids with shotgun blasts are needed, some small stuff like that.

There's other stuff that annoys me about Secmod too, like the buggy hitscan abilities added to the laser attacks and the protocol droids becoming annoyingly fast upon being hit. I would definitely keep it as an optional mode since I can easily see some of its changes being a big turn off for many players.

[67433afcdeb38Join2]

Perhaps the super droid is something that can be addressed by those "purist tweaks", or make it exclusive to Impossible mode as GMDX does with some of its more controversial things. Personally I didn't find it annoying (but respect that you did), I just thought it was a little questionable...felt out of place, a little cartoonish in presentation, but if exclusive to impossible (or a new "secmod difficulty" if possible, just to make sure vanilla options are pure) I doubt anyone would complain.
I wonder why TF didn't just up the movement speed and walking animation speed a little of the droid when shot, as opposed to making them fly like superman at 1000mph. Speaking of, that's what GMDX does for a bot type in v9.0, exclusive to hardcore mode. It's much more subtle and believable, not a single player would complain, its just exclusive to hardcore because it is something that ups the challenge somewhat.

[67433afcded0aNameless Voice]

You folks should probably be posting these suggestions in the SecMod thread itself.

[67433afcdf068X-Tech !]

Because no matter how nostalgic we feel about the vanilla game, there are always limitations that we now wish hadn't been there.  Updating graphics, sound, controls and fixing bugs without changing anything else just makes a great game play even better with minimal risk of ruining it.

This is not even the key. Key is - this is System Shock 1 and key of remake game is to introduce classsic game with better visual and audio. Nothing more.  This is not other game or mod. Second thing a most fans of System Shock 1,2 hate games like BIOSHOCK. This means System Shock cant be dumbed for purpose of mass - cause then this will not anymore System Shock.

[67433afcdf492X-Tech !]

Besides, it's impossible to update everything without some changes to gameplay, as it is frequently intertwined and relational with other aspects of design. The introduction of mouselooking to improve control makes the gameplay notably easier to the 1994 experience, so tweaks may be needed. the implementation of reload animations makes the game harder, as there is an additional period of vulnerability. adding new (much needed) audio effects adds gameplay cues, e.g mutant zombie-like moaning revealing their position. And so on...

Sure, I am a big fan of the community's work here. Updating the game while respecting the original vision, the best kind of mod. I would be even happier if secmod was included in that list, perhaps as an optional game mode as it is not perfect. At least secmod 2. I've yet to play 3. With some purist tweaking I would consider it being optional unnecessary. Removal of features like gibbing Hybrids with shotgun blasts are needed, some small stuff like that.

I cant imagine they will provide system to use classic mods. This is Unity and this engine is in most aspect - amatourish. I cant connect professional creators with this ENGINE. Most game made with this are not professional games. Ability to sell games on STEAM not making people who does game professionals (!) Look at kind of games which was made in this since beginning - most are Slender kind micro game making  tryouts created by amatours.

And yes. Is possible to update everything without change gameplay.  Eveyrhing is about properly functional core of game system.

[67433afcdf5c9voodoo47]

[67433afcdf904Aurora]

Ask yourself this:  If this forum wasn't really active in the modding sense and today ND re-released SS2 with what we now know as SHTUP, SHMUP, [the better parts of] Rebirth, NewDark and SCP, would you buy it?

My 2 cents anyway.

I regularly come back to System Shock 1 and 2 with my friends, and we have never used any of the mods, besides when fan missions required them to be played. With all due respect to the diligent modders on the forum, I would prefer to buy the original games instead.

[67433afcdfc20Aurora]

This is not even the key. Key is - this is System Shock 1 and key of remake game is to introduce classsic game with better visual and audio. Nothing more.

There is no such official definition of a remake as that. Besides, they have not even termed their game as a remake. Now please, let it go. You have kept repeating your point, and everybody here already knows your opinion by now. There is nothing any of us can do for you. If you want to keep going on about what you personally think NDS should do, then compilate your criticisms into a letter addressed to NDS, by e-mail or Reddit or some other medium.

[67433afcdfd27Nameless Voice]

Though, if you want to do that, I recommend using actual sentences instead of an unreadable wall of text.

[67433afcdfe4fvoodoo47]

pretty sure it would be meaningless one way or another - at this point, NDS needs to be working hard on the actual game, the planning phase being finished long ago. remember, they should be going gold in about a year.