SSR: System Shock Kickstarter

[6745a7ae3842eZylonBane]

At the risk of belaboring the point, in classic SF the flechette/needler gun is a rapid-fire anti-personnel weapon. Its inclusion and nature in SS1 was clearly in homage to this. Turning it into a shotgun would make it seem like Night Dive didn't get the reference. It would be better to call it something else entirely at that point.

I mean hell, even partially renaming the Skorpion is probably going to annoy a few people.

[6745a7ae38686JosiahJack]

Ya sorry if some of us are a bit harsh.    A few of us are very opinionated.  I do like the details that ND are going for even if it isn't as strict of a vision as my own. 

[6745a7ae3892aicemann]

Another update is out:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/2509342

Have to say that I'm really digging the concept art for the cyborg assassin's:

Different, but similar at the same time.

So when the hacker got arrested in the original intro, it was cyborg assassin's that arrested him? Interesting. I'd always assumed it to be triop security guards (human). So do they still throw ninja stars / shuriken's?

[6745a7ae38aeaSynaesthesia]

"Formerly TriOp Special Forces"

They've been converted into Cyborg Assassins after SHODAN's rise to power.

[6745a7ae38bf2icemann]

Makes sense.

[6745a7ae38fa0RocketMan]

Be careful of how glowy the assassin is.  The SS1 assassin only had the glowing eye but the rest of the clothing was dull and made good camouflage in shadows.  A big bright triop logo would give them away too easily in those level 8/9 enclosures they like to hide in.

Otherwise good design.

[6745a7ae390a0ZylonBane]

"An assassin! We must discover who sent i-- oh."

[6745a7ae392a0voodoo47]

not digging the cable too much. the clothes are a bit too baggy, and have too much stuff attached to them - part of the charm was how lean and plain the (original) assassin is. this looks more like a riot cop.


basically, the new assassin feels like "ok officer, my hands are up, lets talk", while the old one has more of that "yep, I'm dead" vibe.

[6745a7ae39515Myagi]

Agreed. Updating stuff is fine, but IMHO the core essence of an enemy should remain. It shouldn't feel like a completely different enemy with the same name. The assassins are ninjas (in spirit), and not just because of the obvious, the shuriken. They're silent, slim, stealthy, well ninja-ish, and I think both games (ss1/ss2) successfully convey that (within their technical constraints). If one might think "But it's a few low-res pixels. You're reading too much in to it", then there's even the darn original SS1 concept fully availble. When I look at the new concept, stealthy ninja is not the essence I get. It's as voodoo said, bulky riot cop. At the very minimum, the shoulder and knee armor pads need to go, though the whole cargo pants thing is also misplaced.

[6745a7ae3968bicemann]

True, that's definitely the case. In both games their quite stealthy, and are easy to blend in with the background and thus get an easy sneak shot on you. The SS1 original incarnation got me MANY times.

Looks more special ops now. I still like it, but at the same time I agree that it's not so much a ninja assassin now, and more something else.

[6745a7ae39805RocketMan]

Damn cyborg assassins and their shurikens.  I just finished an SS1 playthrough and it's the only level 1 enemy that managed to kill me in level 9 on an otherwise perfect run.  A testament to how well they (or the game world or both) were designed.

[6745a7ae39a20ZylonBane]

Once again, SS2 did a more sensible job of updating the concept than Night Dive appears to be doing. They're ninjas, man. How hard do you have to work to mess up a ninja? It's interesting to note that Valve had originally planned to include an updated assassin enemy in Half-Life 2. It was cut, but they did design a character model for it. Instead of slapping hoses and neon and armor and pockets all over it, they did the smart thing-- increased the detail, but kept it still easily recognizable as an assassin.

Also, the "make everything TriOp logo shaped" thing is getting out of hand. TriOp-shaped screens, now TriOp-shaped knee pads and shoulder armor? Come the fuck on now. It's like this project is teetering on the edge of turning into a parody of System Shock. You're telling a serious sci-fi story here, not Cloudy with a Chance of Cyborgs.

[6745a7ae39b1evoodoo47]

yeah, less is sometimes more, no argument there.

[6745a7ae39cecRocketMan]

At least we got away from the praying mantis look, thank fuck.

I see they put the stupid logo on the shoulder here too but at least it's not a stretch to assume it's just a badge stitched into the clothing, not some glowing armour thing.  To be honest, I'm not too perturbed by the cargo pants and hose here and there (although toning that down wouldn't hurt).  The first thing I noticed was how glowy the assassin was and how bulky the shoulder armour was.  In general a slender appearance would suit the role better.  Otherwise he might snag his umbilical cord on a door knob, giving away his position.  Then he'd end up being assassin'd by the hacker instead of the other way round.

[6745a7ae39e6bicemann]

Or be like the SS2 variants which kept severing parts of themselves off. I recall a log from Korenchkin on it. Having ninjas kinda goes with the cyberpunk angle as well, as many cyberpunk games had ninjas for some odd reason.

[6745a7ae3a1c9ZylonBane]

Having ninjas kinda goes with the cyberpunk angle as well, as many cyberpunk games had ninjas for some odd reason.

Because one of the defining characteristics of cyberpunk is heavy influence by Asian culture.

[6745a7ae3a425sgupta]

So my take on the new Cyborg Assassins is I really like them, though I grant they're quite a bit different than the original in some regards.  They're pretty intimidating looking with the hose and Cylon/K.I.T.T.-esque Scanner.  I don't really personally mind if they're not as ninja-like, though I do hope they're still sneaky.

I think the reason Tri-Op Special Forces is shown in the Concept Art is that's what SHODAN modified to make the Cyborg Assassins?  I think regular Special Ops still arrested Hacker - after all, it wouldn't make sense these cyborgs would be on Earth (yet).  But perhaps the Cyborg Assassins is what SHODAN turned the Special Forces people on Citadel into, preserving most of their original uniform but adding the hose, scanner, etc.? 

[6745a7ae3a5fcGawain]

How much do they pay you sgupta? 

[6745a7ae3a995ThiefsieFool]

Hmm, I hope they don't drop the strange poses (ninja) and odd lankiness of the cyborg assassins from the previous games, it kinda sold the whole cyborg theme how they were slightly off. The new cyborg looks very much like your average human dressed up in an outfit doing fairly basic poses.

That said there are some nice details in the new cyborg design, and animation and sound work could go a long way to selling the cyborg feeling.
I like the obscure/creepy detail of the mesh shroud laid over the assassin's head, it's quite reminiscent of the details Robb Waters used to add to the original concepts for Bioshock, like the Yam Hand cloaking its deformities with a sack.

[6745a7ae3ab3esgupta]

lol.  Well I wouldn't complain if they paid me (mostly kidding), but I assure you they don't - I actually backed the KickStarter myself, so technically it's the other way around =oP  (I am a moderator, but it's volunteer only, and I'm legit excited about their work - these are all my actual personal opinions).

I can see wanting the janky movement.  I always felt in 2 they were a little bit TOO janky, but that's just personal preference really.  They were never a favorite enemy for me or anything, so I guess I just feel like this design, for me (and only speaking for me), breathes some new life into them.   

[6745a7ae3ac52ZylonBane]

They breathed so much life into the ninja that it became a riot cop.

[6745a7ae3ad47icemann]

[6745a7ae3aec0edx]

June Update:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/2529352

[6745a7ae3afbcicemann]

Cyborg drone looks a bit jittery. I assume that was intentional.