SSR: System Shock Kickstarter

[6745c02fee233Gawain]

The ingame mesh is UV-mapped in 3d Studio Max with a texel density of 256 pixels per meter.

Wrong.

[6745c02fee439ZylonBane]

The jerking around and electric arcs make it seem damaged. If that's its default state, that would seem to indicate that it was badly designed. But the cyborg drones were presumably designed by SHODAN, who would never permit such shoddy work on her station. Sigh.

[6745c02fee648sgupta]

I rather like the jerkiness (though I don't know if that's damaged or not - I would assume not, but I don't know for sure).  It looks like it's being shocked every so often, which is a horrifying thought if you figure underneath that is something alive and perhaps somewhat conscious  (I have to wonder if this is an interpretation on the weird "vocal" sound they make every so often in the original, which was also kind of odd, even back then.)  Could even be some sort of control mechanism or system to prevent the human inside from rebelling (granted, these are entirely my own head running away with the "why" of it).  I also figure that even though SHODAN's a genius, these are some of her earlier experiments, so they're bound to be a bit...messy.  You could argue the various mutants, etc., aren't perfect creations either.  I will say if the glitching stays, it'd be neat if there was an audio log about it somewhere explaining the lore of it.

[6745c02fee796Gawain]

these are some of her earlier experiments

Actually they are her last experiments. Her first experiments start ~6months earlier.

I'm fine with the amount of audio logs currently available, no need to add explanations for bad design choices.
But if I was making the remake I would consider including all the lore from manual and from the official guide. Maybe as data fragments in cyberspace.

[6745c02fee91esgupta]

Well, "earlier" as in she's still relatively early in her sentient lifespan if you count 2's timeline (but her experiments were halted before she got to do more, so you're right that they are her last; I'm just saying she would have potentially worked out the bugs given time and more experimentation, but she never got the chance).  But yeah, she's had 6 months to tinker - that's true.  (I don't agree on the "bad design choices", but that's subjective and we'll just have to agree to disagree there - I find logs explaining things like enemy quirks really interesting and I find the effect pretty disconcerting in a good way.)  And fair enough - I'd personally love to see more audio logs fleshing out the lore, but I can only speak for myself.  I don't know what their plans are for that stuff yet.  Agreed with the expanded lore from the manual/official guide in CyberSpace - I'd like to see that.

[6745c02feea73Gawain]

if you count 2's timeline

I may be wrong, but the SHODAN in SS2 isn't actually the same SHODAN that the hacker destroys in SS1. It is an earlier copy before the hacker wakes up. So actually SHODAN in SS2 is less developed (and much much more restricted to do so in Von Braun).
So we shouldn't think about SS2 at all when talking about SS1 remake.

[6745c02feedf2RocketMan]

You're probably thinking of gamma grove.  The shodan from SS2 is a derivative of what she was when the hacker ejected beta grove.  At that time shodan was well aware of the hacker's presence.  Since it was merely a processing unit meant to conduct the virus experiments, you could argue it wasn't 100% shodan or that she didn't have 100% of the knowledge of the hacker since he did some shit after that but we'd be splitting hairs.

[6745c02feef9ficemann]

The true test of the cyborg drone's animations is when there is more than 1 on screen. If they jitter in unison, that would look more like a dance session. I think ND should look to Star Trek for this one, as the drones in the original were a direct rip off of Borg drones. The Borg don't have jittery movement like that.

[6745c02fef15bZylonBane]

I'm pretty sure a big part of the redesign is to make them NOT look like such an obvious ripoff of the Borg drones. Doesn't excuse the jittery sparking though. It would be appropriate for an old, battle-damaged drone, but for a brand-new one it's nonsensical.

Reading over the backer comments on the Kickstarter update thread, there are a few posts criticizing the current med bed design.

I can see their point. How the hell is an adult human actually supposed to get into this thing? How would medical staff load an unconscious patient into it?

[6745c02fef588unn_atropos]

The Borg don't have jittery movement like that.

Except in one instance
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5igpsb
at 23:15

[6745c02fef8bdRocketMan]

I'm pretty sure a big part of the redesign is to make them NOT look like such an obvious ripoff of the Borg drones. Doesn't excuse the jittery sparking though. It would be appropriate for an old, battle-damaged drone, but for a brand-new one it's nonsensical.

Reading over the backer comments on the Kickstarter update thread, there are a few posts criticizing the current med bed design.

I can see their point. How the hell is an adult human actually supposed to get into this thing? How would medical staff load an unconscious patient into it?

The outer shell could slide out of the way along the longitudinal axis or clamshell open on the transverse axis but that 2-part splitting thing isn't exactly ergonomic.  It does look cool though.  Actually the original shape and design lends itself just as much to ergonomics as this new "enhanced" shape does, if not more.

[6745c02fefb6fZylonBane]

It does look cool though.

I suspect that was the sole design consideration. It doesn't bode well.

[6745c02fefc82icemann]

I get your point with the med bed. My assumption would be that people would hop in from the middle. It does work against the standard we've seen in other things (eg the cryo sleep chamber beds in Aliens which opened from the top).

[6745c02feff29ZylonBane]

My assumption would be that people would hop in from the middle.

First, injured people don't hop. Second, once you've sat down, how would you actually lay down in it without contorting yourself? You'd have to bend your legs inward, duck your head, etc. And look at all those sharp edges that would be very easy to gash yourself on.

The objections aren't that it's not "standard", it's that the design is entirely divorced from its intended function. It's the medical bed equivalent of this teapot:

[6745c02ff0097icemann]

I wasn't disagreeing with you. You asked how people would get in. Middle would be the only way. I'm completely with you on this one. From a medical perspective it wouldn't work. Hell even as a sleeping bed it would not work.

[6745c02ff020cedx]

July update:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/2532662

[6745c02ff035aicemann]

So is there a special forces enemy and an assassin? Or the new assassin concept is replacing the special forces one? The new look has nothing left at all of the original incarnation. At least the SF concept kept the head looking similar. Hmm. I like the SF concept more.

The changes to the laser control room / ambush point I'm divided on. On one hand it looks FAR more like an actual research room. But then it gives a lot of visual emphasis on the center of the room, which screams AMBUSH. Is it just me on the above things?

I like the rest in the update.

[6745c02ff0502sgupta]

The new Cyborg Assassin IS very different, but I personally really like it.  It is true it's not a whole lot like the original (although the visor remains, so I can still see the original as its inspirations; keep in mind the hood still goes over the face - I wonder if you can somehow blow it off to expose the face?).  But yes, they don't feel like the stealthy enemies they were.  I'm okay with that personally, but I can see why some people liked the stealth aspect/previous look.  (I also happened across an old Robb concept where they were a bit smaller with robotic knife-arms and that was a cool concept as well).

And yes...I fully expect an ambush in that room, but that sounds like fun to me (though hopefully not every ambush will be telegraphed).  =oP  As much as I love the original, I have to admit I do like some of these rooms making more sense - some of the old architecture in places felt odd even back in the day - the "maze" logs help explain it, but you could still tell it was engine limitations, etc. at its heart.

I really liked the update.

[6745c02ff0840Gawain]

Good job on making interesting and evolving room to a flat boring one. I see they took the screenshot after the ambush so that they would look more similar...
That room in its first iteration has mines and is challenging to navigate. In the second iteration it has lowering pillars and opening secret doors.
That room is one of the major plot locations also.

And yes...I fully expect an ambush in that room, but that sounds like fun to me (though hopefully not every ambush will be telegraphed).  =oP

That is one of the major ambushes in the game and major plot point. Time to replay?

[6745c02ff0963Gawain]

I would dress that room as command center for the mining laser.
Terminals to analyze asteroids. Terminals to aim the laser. Terminals to control what ever it is that picks up the broken asteroids. And of course the main thing, terminal to power the laser. Maybe a terminal where you can use a telescope to look into the asteroid ring with changeable spectrums.

[6745c02ff0abficemann]

What I liked most in the original version of the room, was that its not expected that that would be an ambush room. The first time that happened to me there I was genuinely surprised, with all the walls and floors moving to reveal all the cyborgs. So many from so many different spots. I love that bit. Its moments like that that made SS1 so damn awesome.

SS2 only has 1 ambush point and that's it. SS1 had quite a few. Its one of SS1's best points. So I think keeping the surprises is important, rather than making them obvious.

[6745c02ff0c75sgupta]

I did remember there was a trap there, though not precisely what it was.  It has been a while.  I'm looking forward to replaying Enhanced Edition soon. 

Yeah, I can see the point about some of the surprise being gone because it does so clearly telegraph an ambush.  Although you never know - they could change it up and play with those expectations.  IE, maybe nothing happens there.  You're expecting it...approach slowly...everything seems fine.  And then the ambush happens later in an area you don't suspect that doesn't look like an ambush location.  I 100% agree that surprises are a big part of the fun of SS1 and hope they find a way to implement them (but I don't mind if they change them up - since they are changing aspects, having it a bit different than the original would be a good thing IMO, as long as the ambushes are well done).   

I like the command center idea.  I'm sure they're not done fleshing it out yet; it'll be interesting to see what it becomes.

[6745c02ff0da0Gawain]

I don't get it why "different from the original would be a good thing" in this context. Better is of course better, but why does it have to be different?
Ideally the remake would feel and be the same as the original for new players that haven't played the original.

There will be entertaining misunderstoodments between people that have played the original and those that have only played the remake.

[6745c02ff1027icemann]

Apologies on being a bit more on the negative side in regards to the latest KS update, but I'm a bit mixed on the Cyborg Surgeon. Now for one thing, having more enemies = great for me. But the look of the surgeon, with the scanner distinctly propelling out from the head does not jell with me from a System Shock perspective.

Why? Well it's more in a body horror direction, which from memory neither System Shock 1 or 2 had. Well SS2 sort of did with the Hybrids. It's more in line with that "Virus" movie that someone mentioned a while ago. That said, it makes absolute perfect sense that she (Shodan) would make something like that. I mean she definitely would. It's just that they didn't have enemies that looked like that, with body horror gore going on. Geiger-esque.

Now you could say, well Origin didn't have the tech to make stuff like that back then, which is completely valid. I'm just saying what I think when I look at it. In the case of this one, with it being a new enemy entirely there is no point of reference to refer to. When I look at the designs of the other enemies though, none went body horror direction. Again though the original's enemies were displayed as 2D sprites which you could only go into so much (at that resolution) level of detail, but yeah. It could also be with the image being in black and white that it looks so off putting to me. In color I'm sure it looks better.

Much of the Cyborg enemies in SS1 were Borg inspired, which if you look to that in Star Trek:

Is less gory. Am I making sense? I suck at articulation. On a positive note - That thing would look spooky as hell in action.