SSR: System Shock Kickstarter

[67416c157c0aaXkilljoy98]

But even better would be if it NEVER played. This sort of thing has been easily doable for over 20 years, yet almost no games do it. There's a reason for that. The reason is that players very rapidly come to despise things that take away control and waste their time.

I suppose a "Disable Time-Wasting Animations" checkbox in the settings would resolve this issue, but I'm not holding my breath for such a thing to be implemented.

Yeah a disable animations would fix it, tho I ain't holding my breath as NDS seems like the type of studio to do what they want if you don't like well too bad.

If it will be a thing then they hadn't mentioned it

Which sucks cause options like that would really make the game better for some people

[67416c157c22eColt Vahn]

"Staggering amount of effort" HOW ABOUT YOU USE THAT EFFORT ON OH, IDK, UPSCALING THE TEXTURES AND ADDING WEAPONS LIKE THE DARTGUN BACK INSTEAD? WHY HAVE MODERN GAMERS BECOME GORE FETISHISTS? PEOPLE LITERALLY BUY MODERN WARFARE BUNDLES FOR DISMEMBERMENT EFFECTS, AT THIS RATE RUNNING MAN WILL BECOME REAL!

Yes SS1 was gory for the time, but the devs weren't freaking Mortal Kombat gore fetishists.

[67416c157c347Julianna]

Gore existed in SS1 to make you think: "Holy shit! Jim from accounting got his fucking head ripped off! Goddamn!" Here it exists just to make the gunplay more satisfying.

[67416c157c4c1icemann]

You also have the side of "How will this increase player enjoyment of the game?". I don't see how it makes the game any better, when as previously mentioned by others, there is plenty of other features that would be far better to have time put into implementing them.

[67416c157c70aZylonBane]

Pickup/use animations aren't always bad. One of my favorite games, Soma, uses them extensively. But context matters. Soma is a Frictional game, and their games are deeply rooted in making the player feel physically part of the environment. You open doors by grabbing and dragging them, turn cranks by moving the handle in a circle, etc. Also Soma isn't an FPS, so this leisurely environmental interaction meshes well with the pace of gameplay. Usually.

System Shock, on the other hand, is an FPS. This remake even more so than the original. Taking away the player's control and equipped weapon just to show some useless animation* is almost always unwelcome. That sort of interruption can actually get players killed.

*Especially nonsensical animations, like standard charging stations almost electrocuting you.

[67416c157c83fPacmikey]

.

[67416c157ca1dJDoran]

The January 2023 Update is out, at https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/3699917

Not exactly an exhaustive update, basically SSR is still coming out this March (so, if correct, less than two months to wait now), no mention about the System Shock 2 remake, SSR is undergoing a final polishing, new or improved enemy variants, lots of enemy dismemberment, and NO new information that would interest the hardcore fans.

Still, if the game does come out in March 2023, and if it is as good as we are hoping, then I won't hold the vey long wait and the infrequent and very emaciated information updates against them, I will just be so very glad to have a great version of such a classic game to play. And the System Shock 2 Remake will be the icing on the cake.

[67416c157cd35ZylonBane]

And the System Shock 2 Remake will be the icing on the cake.

THERE IS NO SS2 REMAKE.

[67416c157ceaavoodoo47]

SS2EE. but uhh, having it done in less than 2 months from now on? their tester team is either amazing, or they are asking for trouble..

[67416c157cfb4ZylonBane]

EE isn't a remake, it's a source port.

[67416c157d0c3voodoo47]

yes, as everyone is aware at this point, I'm quite sure.

SS2R, as in a full remake in style of SSR, is purely hypothetical at this moment.

[67416c157d2e5ZylonBane]

yes, as everyone is aware at this point, I'm quite sure.

Except for JDoran.

[67416c157d460JDoran]

I don't want to give false hope here, but I've just heard on emergency radio that some scientists are claiming that the world, or at least part of it, might still be saved from my misusing a video-game related term on a minority interest video-game forum.

Hopefully the few humans who are left alive after the apocalyptic effects of my writing "remake" instead of "source port" will begin to build this world anew, and will vow never again to use the wrong word in a post that eleven people will read, and that everyone reading it would understand it anyway.

May God be with us.

[67416c157d6b2Nameless Voice]

New demo for Steam Fest, apparently?

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/482400/view/3635002625409158603

And currently streaming: https://steamcommunity.com/broadcast/watch/76561199204322052


[EDIT]
A few observations:

Apparently you now pick up every random item and vaporise it to turn it into money?  Look a little tedious. (And shouldn't the option have been renamed to "recycle"?)

I noticed that for some reason they moved Rebecca's first email later, so you're likely in combat when you get it and so can't hear it properly?

Some of the animations still seem obnoxious, namely in how frequently they play.  I'm okay with short animations that don't break the flow of the game, but these seem a little too long and a little too frequent.

I still quite like the overall style, apart from the silly low-res textures.

[67416c157d807Xkilljoy98]

New Update:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/3726636

Also seems that the backer beta is coming
I didn’t get that high of tier, unless they are just gonna open it to all backers which is possible

[67416c157d9aeZylonBane]

YouTube video of the new demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ9BtA7cVl4

Everything in the hacker's apartment is so pixelated it looks like a Build engine game.

[67416c157dab9voodoo47]

ja ja, we hate ze pixel. everybody knows dat.

[67416c157dc22Xkilljoy98]

From playing the new demo, some rooms are different, as well as some added items, animations, enemies, etc

Cyberspace has some new effects, not crazy on the new enter and exit animation tbh

Still no music, but I guess that was expected

[67416c157de34la0s]

I really really dislike the proportions of the items, everything seems so chunky and large, like it is stylized. The toothbrush looks like toddler's toy version of a toothbrush. The cup on the table, the laptop text resolution.. everything. The proportions and stylized nature removes it from a more realistic presentation, and coupled with the low res textures it makes it present more gamey or cartoony.. if that make sense? The original at least how I experienced, presented itself way more realistic, even with it's (in todays view) limited engine.

Does that make sense?

Edit: oh and the sound mixing seems very off or unfinished

[67416c157e226Hikari]

la0s
I get where your'e coming from. Every dya objects have this ultra styalized 'batman from the sixties' feel. It's like they tried to go for cartoon proportions to increase object readability but mixing it with 'this is REAL' lighting and architecture. I get why it's offputting.

Also mouse works for menues but not within the demo itself.

Which is annoying.

Edit: Added the following t othe config line for the game under steam.
CONFIG_INPUT_MOUSEDEV %command

Mouse works. Game prompts show what i've changed key configs to, but several of them are non responsive such as playing logs.

[67416c157e522la0s]

This is not to only crap all over them, the demo definitely shows improvement. But a couple of critical notes:
-Stupid me tried it on my Steam Deck, the controls suck there, especially inventory management. I guess this might be cleaned up later, and is partly due to me wanting to try it here. Just so you know. It runs at a pretty steady 40fps though.
-Some items, like patches can be hard to find when scattered on the ground. This would be okay, but with other items being outlandishly large, the game doesn't train you to look for smaller objects (I think). It feels inconsistent.
- The repeated animations are annoying. I do not need to see the keycard or audio log animation again and again.
- The system for generating money from vaporised junk seems a bit convoluted. Why do you have to have so many interactions to do something so tedious? I don't get it, and it gives me the feeling that they don't really understand how to design the gameplay.
- Melee is hit or miss.. pun intended. The maintenance bot seems hard to hit, or at least it is hard to know if you hit it.
- Another (for me) huge gripe: this game is simple badly directed. Amateurish almost. They have a lot for "good ideas" like the drone in the beginning, the TriOp forces showing up, the hacking scene with Diego and the email from Lansing (as touch upon by Nameless Voice). The drone scene is not very interesting and doesn't really add much (except if you wanted to go further in to establishing an unimaginative Blade Runner-setting), there is simply not enough going on, it seems only like a "cool idea" that isn't executed very well. Also the transition to gameplay pretty rough. The beats in the TriOp arrest of the player, are very muddied. There's potential for audio cues, visible panic from the player, the security forces forcing the door open, all laid out to heighten the tension one by one. Instead everything just happens, too fast, inconsequential almost.
Also the Diego-scene is the same, it feels rushed, badly directed, it doesn't deliver its beats in sequence or with clarity. Suddenly the Shodan face turn green in the middle of the player being put to sleep by a needle. It is messy, not laid out beat-by-beat.
Which leads me to the feeling that the whole intro sequence is a waste of time and money. It doesn't present well, and seems like it is made by inexperienced designers wanting to do some first person cutscenes.
Also the Lansing mail being played over a battle, that's subpar pacing, and another example of the direction being off.

[67416c157e964Xkilljoy98]

Update:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/3726930

la0s
Yeah I agree, the new intro doesn't benefit at all from being "playable" and isn't nearly as good as the original

[67416c157eba1Berathraben]

@icemann This is the spot I was talking about on your stream. You can still get there with out mantling by crouch jumping on the cart and into the alcove.

Though I will always miss mantling there are still ways to get to these locations. You can push the carts around to use them and there is also the jump boots you get later on . So, there is some reward for back tracking to explore these areas further.

[67416c157f03aicemann]

Speaking of my stream:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykFP5VzeEME

(Video processing to HD at the time of my making this post).

Anyway. So I had a play of this latest demo and have a lot to say. Mostly negative:

* The new starting bit / intro is bad. Really bad. The initial flying car ride to your apartment is fine, and you hear a radio of Triop commercials which I liked (TV ad would have been better). Beyond that there is no music in this section, just silence (watch my video above to see for yourself), the "hack" of Triop looks like a powerpoint presentation and should have been at least a hacking mini-game of some sort. When the security forces break in it's all just meh.
* In your apartment, you can find the game box for the original System Shock
* The new voice actor for Diego is just bad. He lacks the arrogance and megacorp exec vibe of the original actor, and sounds like a soulless robot.
* Once into actual Medical, a few of the abilities are in like sensearound, brightness (which with all the darkness is essential).
* Mini-map is in now, but you can't zoom in/out like you could in the original
* Audio logs, emails and notes are all now placed in the 1 section "Media" with no sorting options besides the level.
* Several sections of Medical have got the rework treatment, with new sections, some new rooms here and there.
* You don't get any projectile weapons for quite some time now. I had the magpulse before I got the sparq or pistol.
* Cyberspace is great, and there is now 2 separate cyberspace levels in Medical. However the cyberspace levels do not save their state when you leave. So enemies are back, switches are returned to off, if you come back. And they removed the time limit, which due to how confusing their version is, is a positive. Feels very Descent-ish. You can now move back and forward. Found movement to be good in there in the latest build.
* The ambient "music" is just bad and makes everything just sound so blah. Medical takes a significant amount of time to get through, and I eventually got sick of the ambience and turned it off entirely, switched over to Chicojo's Medical remix and had a MUCH BETTER experience with it on. The ambient stuff just sucks.
* Path finding of the enemies is very mixed. Some work, and some just randomly in the middle of a battle decide to all stop attacking and go investigate a wall for no reason at all. Others just got into a glitch loop, and would move back and forth on the spot.
* This new build has all the new audio logs in there, and it's a mixed bag there too. Some good, some bad. Many lack the emotion of the original stuff, and just sound like people reading lines. Some of the logs are at far louder volume levels to the others. Very noticeable.
* The puzzles got a re-work and are now very difficult to solve without a walkthrough. I was lucky to have Berathraben with me on the stream to assist, as I had no idea what was going on. Very unintuitive.
* Crouch jumping is now a thing after they removed mantling. The game makes zero mention that your able to do this, and there is some secret spots only accessible via use of crouch jumping.
* You now when running your mouse over a weapon in the inventory screen, can see it's stats like weapon damage etc. I quite like this change.
* Trash items can now be recycled for money at specific recycling machines. Non-trash items cannot be recycled.
* In a step towards SS2, they've added vendor machines into the game for purchasing of med packs, ammo, food etc. And the wrench has been added in, and does roughly double the double of the pipe
* Weapon upgrades are apparently findable in-game. I did not witness this myself but Berathraben mentioned that their in there.
* Melee weapons now just lack oomph in the sound of you hitting stuff with them, which in turn makes it feel your slapping enemies with a sheet of paper. Wasn't an issue in earlier builds, so I'm not sure why they made this change.