SSR: System Shock Kickstarter

[68112bbddb43bfox]

Sounds way too gamified. This is still supposed to be a somewhat serious corpo run space station, isn't it?

Yes, a Descent-like representation isn't any better but that's what they came up with in the original and is a little bit more in line with what authors imagined cyberspace to be like in the early years of Cyberpunk.

Edit: Well, I remember arguing for a Tron 2.0-like representation many years ago. I could still see that working as long as it's more about puzzle solving rather than a straight up shooter.

And while we're dreaming again... I also still wish for a Shock game to have Shenzhen I/O-puzzles instead of whatever was presented to us as hacking mini games so far. That or one that features the coding of else heart.break(). Might even be possible to combine it with a explorable 3D-Cyberspace representation that reacts to code changes or reconfigured logic blocks. Of course no publisher would ever sign off on it - and understandably so.

[68112bbddc05csarge945]

Literally the only thing cyberspace needed was solid wall textures and no more forced forward movement. Then it's perfect.

The people wanting to do complete redesigns don't understand it's problems - or it's strengths.

[68112bbddc1b7fox]

No forced forward movement would have made a huge difference, agreed.

[68112bbddc5f9JDoran]

Literally the only thing cyberspace needed was solid wall textures and no more forced forward movement. Then it's perfect.

The people wanting to do complete redesigns don't understand it's problems - or it's strengths.

Not perfect, far from it. Both suggestions would really improve the cyberspace sections, yes, but I still think many people would prefer to avoid it altogether. But if it did have your two changes, plus an onscreen radar to show what enemies and (maybe) items were behind you, and an option on the System Shock's/System Shock Remakes' start menu to teach and practise the cyberspace gameplay. then it would be much, much better.


Edit: When the original System Shock came out in 1994, when players discussed it, was there a tendency for people to praise the cyberspace sections, or to criticise it, or what? How was it generally liked or disliked in forum discussions of the 90s? I can't remember if you can turn off the entire Cyberspace experience (I'm at work, so can't test it) in any or all versions of SS/SSR, is that possible? And if so, did people tend to do so? Or was there ever a fan-made mod for the original game that turned off cyberspace, for those that really hated it?

[68112bbddc820fox]

In 1994 not too many people around here were already surfin' the world wide web on a regular basis... Crazy how fast things changed. Can't remember what the print magazines wrote about System Shocks' cyberspace but they sure praised the overall game.

One article that I have read prior to getting the game, was this one (PC Games 11/94). They mentioned the "cyberstations" as an example for the unusual variety of gameplay elements on offer. I guess it's fair that they don't focus on the details, with so many others things they also needed to mention. Like how "everything looks almost photorealistic". Well, except for the "ridiculous wireframe models" of the cyberspace, which are an "insult to the eye". 

[Interwebs in 1994.jpg expired]

[68112bbddcfb0icemann]

I remember on my 1st play through (mid nineties I think) not minding the cyberspace. If you look at other games around then that had those sections they were almost always a completely different style of gameplay.

Some did it from first person, some did arcade style, others more like mini-games. Its super rare for the gameplay to be the same as the main game. Same thing applies even present day.

[68112bbdde982JDoran]

Come to think of it, do we know why SS2's designers decided not to include cyberspace, even though it was an important part of the first game?

[68112bbddec28ZylonBane]

Are you serious? Because they were using the Dark Engine, which doesn't support that kind of 6DOF gameplay. You need that for proper Hollywood-style cyberspace. Otherwise it's just regular FPS gameplay with different walls.

[68112bbddf06cJDoran]

Are you serious? Because they were using the Dark Engine, which doesn't support that kind of 6DOF gameplay. You need that for proper Hollywood-style cyberspace. Otherwise it's just regular FPS gameplay with different walls.

Believe it or not, not everyone is familiar with the limitations of a given game engine, just as not everyone will think "Well, obviously having one game engine already meant that they were forbidden by ancient druid law from writing a different set of game engine routines to allow for the Descent style gameplay that was used in the first game. All praise to Gaia".

ZB, I bet every morning, your neighbours hear a crazy cry from the person next door, Screaming "Are you kidding me? The sun rose again!!!" 

[68112bbddf1faZylonBane]

You've been around long enough that you should know these things. No excuses.

[68112bbddf47bvoodoo47]

I hope this place never changes.

[68112bbddf69agobbins]

Even if the engine could support such gameplay scenarios I doubt they'd have included them. Of course it's all conjecture at this point, but the game is certainly no worse off without them, just as the original game is hardly made better for its inclusion. No one has ever said: "System Shock 2? Yeah it was good but what it really needed were the 6DOF cyberspace gameplay of the original." You never see anyone claim the cyberspace levels were their favorite part of the original game (and that goes double for the remake)

[68112bbde0c63eldrone]

Are you serious? Because they were using the Dark Engine, which doesn't support that kind of 6DOF gameplay. You need that for proper Hollywood-style cyberspace. Otherwise it's just regular FPS gameplay with different walls.

Looking at the workings of this engine it mostly feels like cyberspace got sidelined, and the cyberspace in the game is a late stage addition.

Moddingwise the big limitation for 6dof movement is direct input access.