criticism.. and stuff

[674116bcb628echuckles n chestnuts]

-avoid reinventing the wheel/if it ain't broke, don't fix it. there is a good reason for things like bulkhead load zones, and keycards not being an actual inventory item (see the link with the Blind Disposition reports). different doesn't always mean better.

Hi, maker of FM 'Blind Disposition' here, Voodoo, may I ask you why you're using my FM as a 'bad example', it wasn't my intention to make the keycards inventory items, as I believe I discussed with you when you critiqued my FM.  I spent alot of time on my FM as you well know and I really (really) don't appreciate my FM being used as a 'don't do' bad example...So why are you calling my FM out like this?  Again?!

[674116bcb640bZylonBane]

Intention is irrelevant.

[674116bcb65efchuckles n chestnuts]

What do you mean 'intention is irrelevant'?

Edit: Oh ok, after a little more thought on that I see what you meant, but still as being my 'first FM ever' don't you think going off on my FM like that and making it a negative example (in how Voodoo is using it) kinda shoots down ones ambitions to further post to a site he/she really admires?  (Yes this might sound a bit thin-skinned here but I think you can see my contention with this as a fellow person passionate about system shock).

Your thoughts Zylon?

[674116bcb671dZylonBane]

By that logic no real-world bad examples should ever be presented, because someone, somewhere, would have their feelings hurt.

It's not like he's insulting your character.

[674116bcb6890chuckles n chestnuts]

Yes, I suppose I do have a little bit of glass feelings about my FM being used as a bad example.  And yes I am aware I am being a little 'highly' passionate in defending my work, but tell me Zylon, can you blame me?

Edit: or I am just taking an overly defensive stance.  Because I sincerely want to know (being that I know none of you here personally and know none of your personal character types).  And as you well know its hard to convey emotion and intent through typed words.

Personal note: Of course he's not insulting my character, he doesn't know me.  But what he is bringing in a negative light is my FM which is what really matters, I could care less if someone negatively comments about my character on here, firstly that would be ignorant obviously and second totally irrelevant to the SS2 universe.

[674116bcb69f0Join2]

What should matter is whether or not voodoo's criticism was valid. Was your FM a bad example in this instance? If you agree it was, let it go. If you disagree, either give your reasoning, or let it go.

[674116bcb6cffchuckles n chestnuts]

What should matter is whether or not voodoo's criticism was valid. Was your FM a bad example in this instance? If you agree it was, let it go. If you disagree, either give your reasoning, or let it go.

Oh Join usss!, buddy, its been awhile since I saw a reply from you since our unnecessary blowout on my very first post critiquing my FM literally not 5 minutes into me posting it and barely (if even playing it).  And now your telling me my options of what to do...Ooohh Join usss!.  What is the world gonna do with you? 

You know, if you read my above posts you'll see the reasoning of why I disagree with Voodoo calling my FM out directly (subtlety would've been fine, but my FM in particular was mentioned).  But if not, here is a little clue: it involves something being out of my hands at the time of production and me not asking for help and researching everything on my own because I didn't know who to go to summed up into a few words on the above posts.

[674116bcb6e6bZylonBane]

Oh my god, how are you still not getting this? It DOES NOT MATTER what the circumstances were leading up to any particular thing in your mission or anyone's mission or anyone's anything when the thing being critiqued is not the creator or even the creation process but THE THING ITSELF.

If even after this you persist in ignoring this critical distinction, this is all I have to say...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRG-RBZBTZI

[674116bcb706cchuckles n chestnuts]

Okay Zylon, that reply was bittersweet I'll admit, I found the humorous video well, humorous, but, the way you worded me ignorning things makes me come off as an ignorant cretin unwilling to listen to opposed opinion, which is not the case.

But, I will say, I agree with what you said there, it puts things into perspective, I just don't get it, so far in my brief tenure on here as a member I have been getting alot of shifty vibes from the majority of the seemingly regularly frequent members that post in regards to my posts, but  I am confused, either this is objectivity that I'am not used to or perhaps I've been getting off on the wrong foot here, I DON'T KNOW!

But either way, it disheartens me to see a fansite of a game series I truly love and I thought I did one hell of a contribution to and then turn around and get critiqued to HELL.

Its like going up to your favorite sports team/or whatever your a fan of and giving said group/person(s) them artwork as a token of appreciation and contribution to the fandom and then they turn around and say 'well, we don't like it because X, and you should've done Y'.  It comes off very snarky and pretentious sometimes thats all.

Art is art and mapping is art and dedication to me, not a competition...jees.. 

And yes I GOT IT with what you meant and agree!  I just didn't like the whole 'persist in ignorning' bit thats all...

[674116bcb7488voodoo47]

it wasn't my intention to make the keycards inventory items

I've thought this WAS intentional? if not then it's a bug, and you should probably fix it. anyway, I didn't use it as a bad example, I just pointed out choices that I've considered odd/areas that need improvement (or bugs, if the keycard thing is a bug). I did the same thing with Minstrel and RttUNN while working on them (if we were talking about ecologies, they would get referenced, as in both cases, they were completely broken). again, this is not badmouthing, it's something that needs to be done to fix/improve things - you can't fix stuff unless someone points out something is wrong first. I also received a fair deal of criticism while working on stuff here, as I indeed made a lot of mistakes in process. just look at the amount of nuclear warfare that is going on in the SCP bugreport topic. but, again, in the end, this is a good thing.

having someone to test your stuff to death and report everything honestly is the best thing that can happen to you, even if it can get annoying and you may not like what people say sometimes, because it means you can improve your work, and your skills.

[674116bcb7655chuckles n chestnuts]

Once again thank you Voodoo for putting things into perspective, and yes I agree, I accept critisizm as I understand I am by far not the most skilled, just sometimes I get mixed signals from you.  And again maybe this is just mistunderstanding, either way, thank you for clearing that up.

For future FM's (which I plan to do), I'll reach out a little more to clear up this confusion as for my first FM, I literally had NO HELP at all, other than a friend (who isn't even into the series but has mapped before) give me some slight suggestions but thats it other than that no help whatsoever on the technical part.  But going further I think I need to do some more reaching out if I get to stuck. 

In closing, yeah I do appretiate your critique and I can take critisizm in the right doses.  So my apologies for the misunderstanding.

[674116bcb775avoodoo47]

no problem. as long as everyone is having fun in their own way, and good stuff is made in the end.

now you need to go and make all the corn harvestable.

[674116bcb7859chuckles n chestnuts]

lol, thats the spirit! 

and on that note:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iectr_CfTkc

[674116bcb7bd8Join2]

Oh Join usss!, buddy, its been awhile since I saw a reply from you since our unnecessary blowout on my very first post critiquing my FM literally not 5 minutes into me posting it and barely (if even playing it).  And now your telling me my options of what to do...Ooohh Join usss!.  What is the world gonna do with you? 

I didn't critique your FM, I inquired into what kind of FM it was; what were its goals, to decide whether or not I'd want to play it like any reasonable person may want to do as no info was given beyond a plot synopsis, to which you freaked out. You seem to be doing a lot of that.

For all I knew it was a walking sim. I just wanted to know a bit about the gameplay to save myself from installing and playing something I wouldn't want to!

[674116bcb7d55Join2]

"Strelok98" just edited my post, adding what appeared to be a counter argument within rather than just posting a counter argument himself. Games are generally about gameplay more than they are plot. On the back of a box, you get gameplay descriptions, gameplay pictures and a plot summary. To want to know a bit about the gameplay of a particular game experience should be expected.

Who the fuck is Strelok98 and would you kindly not edit my posts?

[674116bcb807dchickenhead]

"Strelok98" just edited my post, adding what appeared to be a counter argument within rather than just posting a counter argument himself. Games are generally about gameplay more than they are plot. On the back of a box, you get gameplay descriptions, gameplay pictures and a plot summary. To want to know a bit about the gameplay of a particular game experience should be expected.

Who the fuck is Strelok98 and would you kindly not edit my posts?

Other people can edit your posts? Or is that just moderators? is Strelok98 a moderator?

//Join usss edit: nope, it appears we can edit eachother's posts now Sorry Chickenhead for using you for this example. Kolya? Straight road to chaotic anarchy right here!
//rccc edit: WTF?? :-)

[674116bcb8193Join2]

Needs urgent attention from the administration and moderation team, so spam this thread. I've already PM'd Kolya, but the mods need to be aware of it too in case he doesn't log on any time soon.

[674116bcb8293Join2]

[674116bcb83d4rccc]

Well this subforum is called a wiki ... maybe that's why? ;-)

[674116bcb84f2Join2]

Oh yeah...duh.

[674116bcb863dKolya]

What rcc said. In the wiki people can edit other people's posts. It's noted somewhere.
Anyway, just revert it. Where is that post?

[674116bcb8792Join2]

I reverted it but it shows his edits within.

Edit: this one in particular: https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?action=posthistory;topic=8607.0;msg=100362;edit=78040

Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one that got confused by this function.

[674116bcb887eKolya]

But the actual post is restored as it seems. And it wasn't actual spam.
Strelok98, dont do this again please. Just because you can doesn't make it right.

[674116bcb89e1ZylonBane]

This should be in Engineering anyway, I'd think.