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Topic: SSR Demo
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Re: "System Shock" Demo
6815547d85fab
Except that's all it takes.

Calm professional trying to make oneself heard 'Here is the current situation. You are the only person we have on site but we are getting specialists in that can help you use your implants. We know about the deal you and diego made. Help us and you get a clean record.'

vs.

'hey uh some bad shit is happening. you gon need a weapon y'all.' NO mention of getting a specialist in to help you quick learn about your gear, or knowledge that diego brought you in and that your'e why SHODAN is able to turn the mining laser into a budget Death Star.

That radically shifts the interpersonal dynamic all on its own. Please, Nightdive, Keep in mind i think Lansing's actual voice actress has a good voice. I simply disagree with the lines she's given. Please keep her on, I want to see what she's capible of given a better script.

Unrelated: I find it amazing within hours of demo footage showing up we've ripped it to shreds picking out both good and bad from what a piss poor player showed us and are currently picking apart what a single audio log change means for the rest of the game. Tomorrow is going to be FUN.
Acknowledged by 2 members: The_Atomik_Punk!, Learonys

6815547d86273Learonys

Re: "System Shock" Demo
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But she's not a one liner spouting side character, all they did was slightly change the dialogue and give her a different voice actress (with more emotion in the lines).

You don't need emotion to sound pressing or serious. It could actually work badly for the game, sounding forced and unrealistic. There is a huge difference between sounding very pressing and sounding very emotional. I can't explain this, and i'm not in the mood to make a compilation of sounds to show it to you, it would cost too much time. It's something you don't understand until you've noticed it yourself.
Acknowledged by: Hikari

6815547d863ebXKILLJOY98

Re: "System Shock" Demo
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"Hello, hello, finally got someone. Alright, my name is Rebecca Lansing I'm a counter terrorism consultant for Triop. First things first, get something to defend yourself with, you're gonna need it. Things on Citadel Station are bad, very bad. The coms are dead, and there is strong evidence of biological contamination on board, and that's not the worst part. The station's mining laser is charging for a potential strike against earth. Nathan Darcy is the science officer on board, he'll have information on shutting the laser down. His office is on your level on the central hub, get there immediately. (there is more but I couldn't make out what she says). - Rebecca Lansing

6815547d864ddXKILLJOY98

Re: "System Shock" Demo
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(this is open for interpretation/debate) Reboot/Remake/Remaster aren't the same thing (they are but they aren't).

6815547d8665cXKILLJOY98

Re: "System Shock" Demo
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"Listen to me very carefully. Something has gone terribly wrong on Citadel station. You might be the last survivor. Communications are being jammed. We know that something on board is attempting to harm humanity. The mining laser is being charged for a possible strike against Earth populations. On your level is the office of a Dr. D'Arcy, who may know something about the laser. The office is located near the central hub, on a balcony, with the medical icon clearly visible. When the laser is destroyed, you will have to reach the bridge and stop whatever is responsible for the catastrophe. We believe that the biological labs and security systems have gone haywire, so be careful. If you pull this off, we will be able to get you out alive. Good luck." -Rebecca Lansing (text/non audio version).
Re: "System Shock" Demo
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Nah, for my part, I love the personality added by the original intro; it contributes to the cyberpunk atmosphere by painting a picture of a cynical yet pragmatic hacker, who, while  excited by the prospect of getting bleeding edge tech installed, is still wary  of the  ruthless corporate ethos espoused by Diego and his like, and the perils of the having  worlds most powerful AI freed of moral constraints under his control. All this,  as well as providing some much needed exposition to set the scene, makes this a no-brainer for me- keep it!

You misunderstood. I don't want any of that to go.

Quote by Killjoy:
But even then, in the original version the hacker had a personality, so how then does the player fully see themselves as the hacker? What they did was have both, the hacker has a personality and doesn't take away from immersion (also, in universe the hacker is a person with a personality and history (though in game, that isn't fully shown (I'm just trying to make a point))). So then, how is it impossible to have both?

You can have both, yet in SS1 & 2 the PC's personality was kept to a bare minimum, consisting of the intro to setup the events and your purpose for being there, and that's pretty much it once the game actually begins, the rest is all the personality and control of the player. This is supposed to be well established.

6815547d86c2eXKILLJOY98

Re: "System Shock" Demo
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Why not compare those two?

6815547d86ff5XKILLJOY98

Re: "System Shock" Demo
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You misunderstood. I don't want any of that to go.

You can have both, yet in SS1 & 2 the PC's personality was kept to a bare minimum, consisting of the intro to setup the events and your purpose for being there, and that's pretty much it once the game actually begins, the rest is all the personality of the player. This is supposed to be well established.


Again, how is there any more of that in the new version?

6815547d871a2ZylonBane

Re: "System Shock" Demo
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(Will Killjoy ever figure out that he can reply to multiple things in the same post? Stay tuned!)
Acknowledged by 3 members: Nameless Voice, Hikari, Join usss!
Re: "System Shock" Demo
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Quote by Killjoy:
Again, how is there any more of that in the new version?

The animation. Tossing around the hardware is the hacker's actions, not yours, implies careless/cocky attitude which may not reflect your own, robs some degree of control as it plays out, is rather long in duration, and establishes additional unnecessary disconnect right off the bat as a cumulative result. 

The other animation while similar in principle is at least straightforward: grab hardware, automatically install it. Not nearly quite as bad. Could still be more in tune with the player's actions (frob = grab animation (preferably no animation), manual install GUI button = Install hardware animation) but that complicates things more than it arguably needs to be.
« Last Edit: 28. June 2016, 01:53:28 by Join usss! »

6815547d88905Learonys

Re: "System Shock" Demo
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(may exaggerate some parts to put emphasis on tone)

"Hello? Hello?"

does not reply

"Finally, I got someone"

Wut, how did she know?

"First things first, get something to defend yourself with, yuhr gonna need it!1!1"

Sounds just as professional as... It just doesn't.

"Things on citadel station are bad, very bad."

Tell me again, how bad? It seriously sounds as if a random witness of some crime scene is talking to me. I didn't know she was actuallyworking for TriOptimum, I swear! I thought she was a liar!


etc.

Yeah, i overexaggerated but it's just to get my point across. It sounds not professional enough to bring over the severity of the situation, combined with the joyful handanimations the Hacker makes! the combination of this makes the entire atmosphere on the station a mess, it does not align at all.

Fix the lighting, put a bit more thought in the audiologs and make the surroundings fit the mood of the hacker for the beginning of the game. If this gets worked on i'll be as happy as I can be.

6815547d88ff9XKILLJOY98

Re: "System Shock" Demo
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(may exaggerate some parts to put emphasis on tone)

"Hello? Hello?"

does not reply

"Finally, I got someone"

Wut, how did she know?

"First things first, get something to defend yourself with, yuhr gonna need it!1!1"

Sounds just as professional as... It just doesn't.

"Things on citadel station are bad, very bad."

Tell me again, how bad? It seriously sounds as if a random witness of some crime scene is talking to me. I didn't know she was actuallyworking for TriOptimum, I swear! I thought she was a liar!


etc.

Yeah, i overexaggerated but it's just to get my point across. It sounds not professional enough to bring over the severity of the situation, combined with the joyful handanimations the Hacker makes! the combination of this makes the entire atmosphere on the station a mess, it does not align at all.

Fix the lighting, put a bit more thought in the audiologs and make the surroundings fit the mood of the hacker for the beginning of the game. If this gets worked on i'll be as happy as I can be.


Uhm, when you're in the moment, you say things without analyzing them. 

Professionals are still people, and don't always act like "professionals" (look at edward diego).


"Tell me again, how bad? It seriously sounds as if a random witness of some crime scene is talking to me. I didn't know she was actually working for TriOptimum, I swear! I thought she was a liar!" It's not bad at all, she sounds just like a triop professional and not a witness to me.


Again:

"Listen to me very carefully. Something has gone terribly wrong on Citadel station. You might be the last survivor. Communications are being jammed. We know that something on board is attempting to harm humanity. The mining laser is being charged for a possible strike against Earth populations. On your level is the office of a Dr. D'Arcy, who may know something about the laser. The office is located near the central hub, on a balcony, with the medical icon clearly visible. When the laser is destroyed, you will have to reach the bridge and stop whatever is responsible for the catastrophe. We believe that the biological labs and security systems have gone haywire, so be careful. If you pull this off, we will be able to get you out alive. Good luck." -Rebecca Lansing (text/non audio version)

No it doesn't make it a mess (and the audio logs are fine).

6815547d89148XKILLJOY98

Re: "System Shock" Demo
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Because this sounds so professional: "investigate me, investigate my butt!" -edward diego 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euCw2xZ6W_s
Re: "System Shock" Demo
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My attempt at blending the two to feel both more natural than the first, but more professional than the second iteration.

"Hello, hello. Finally got someone. Alright, my name is Rebecca Lansing I'm a counter terrorism consultant for Triop. Listen to me very carefully. Something has gone terribly wrong on Citadel station; the coms are dead, and there is strong evidence of biological contamination on board, the security systems have gone haywire, and that's not the worst part. The station's mining laser is charging for a potential strike against earth. Nathan Darcy is the science officer on board, he'll have information on shutting the laser down. His office is on your level on the central hub, get there immediately. When the laser is destroyed, you will have to reach the bridge and stop whatever is responsible for the catastrophe. If you pull this off, we will be able to get you out alive. Good luck." - Rebecca Lansing

Just based on the snippests provided as attempt to show the original also had flawed writing.

Because this sounds so professional: "investigate me, investigate my butt!" -edward diego

That is Diego at the height of his Hubris right after the shuttle got shot down. two weeks later he's on bent knee begging SHODAN to not kill him and offering up the locations of resistance fighters to save his own skin.

6815547d89e2aXKILLJOY98

Re: "System Shock" Demo
6815547d89e7c
The animation. Tossing around the hardware is the hacker's actions, not yours, implies careless/cocky attitude which may not reflect your own, robs some degree of control as it plays out, is rather long in duration, and establishes additional unnecessary disconnect right off the bat as a cumulative result. 

The other animation while similar in principle is at least straightforward: grab hardware, automatically install it. Not nearly quite as bad. Could still be more in tune with the player's actions (frob = grab animation (preferably no animation), manual install GUI button = Install hardware animation) but that complicates things more than it arguably needs to be.


Does it matter that much, and you know what, it's (arguably) the hacker that defeated SHODAN not the player.

6815547d8a10aZylonBane

Re: "System Shock" Demo
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Because this sounds so professional: "investigate me, investigate my butt!" -edward diego
I repeat my previous question: Are you stupid? I ask because a person would have to be pretty seriously fucking stupid to not understand the difference in context between Rebecca's messages to the hacker, and Diego's egotistical message to himself.

6815547d8a4ddXKILLJOY98

Re: "System Shock" Demo
6815547d8a535
My attempt at blending the two to feel both more natural than the first, but more professional than the second iteration.

"Hello, hello. Finally got someone. Alright, my name is Rebecca Lansing I'm a counter terrorism consultant for Triop. Listen to me very carefully. Something has gone terribly wrong on Citadel station; the coms are dead, and there is strong evidence of biological contamination on board, the security systems have gone haywire, and that's not the worst part. The station's mining laser is charging for a potential strike against earth. Nathan Darcy is the science officer on board, he'll have information on shutting the laser down. His office is on your level on the central hub, get there immediately. When the laser is destroyed, you will have to reach the bridge and stop whatever is responsible for the catastrophe. If you pull this off, we will be able to get you out alive. Good luck." - Rebecca Lansing

Just based on the snippests provided as attempt to show the original also had flawed writing.

That is Diego at the height of his Hubris right after the shuttle got shot down. two weeks later he's on bent knee begging SHODAN to not kill him and offering up the locations of resistance fighters to save his own skin.


Interesting, but I don't see how that is any better than the others (they all sound fine to me).

Why are you making an exception for diego, but not for Rebecca?

6815547d8a78aXKILLJOY98

Re: "System Shock" Demo
6815547d8a7e2
I repeat my previous question: Are you stupid? I ask because a person would have to be pretty seriously fucking stupid to not understand the difference in context between Rebecca's messages to the hacker, and Diego's egotistical message to himself.


I was making a point, but still, why make an exception for one and not the other?

Of course I'm not!, no matter what version, it is the same basic information across all three versions (I still stand by my point).

Why are you all so picky?

6815547d8a876XKILLJOY98

Re: "System Shock" Demo
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Anyway, it's getting late, if anyone replies, I'll respond tomorrow.

6815547d8aadcZylonBane

Re: "System Shock" Demo
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Of course I'm not!
All evidence disagrees with you. Sorry. You had to learn the truth eventually.

6815547d8ad1cXKILLJOY988

Re: "System Shock" Demo
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All evidence disagrees with you. Sorry. You had to learn the truth eventually.


(This is me, I'm using a new device and forgot my password), what evidence?, And no its not the truth, how is my opinion/way of viewing things make me dumb?

You don't have to be an ass just because you are online.

Acknowledged by: Hikari
Re: "System Shock" Demo
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Moving on. Anything else to be said before the demo's public release?

6815547d8b0fbZylonBane

Re: "System Shock" Demo
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what evidence?, And no its not the truth, how is my opinion/way of viewing things make me dumb?
It is your complete lack of capacity to comprehend why in the same story different characters should act in different ways. This is not about differences of opinion. The counter-arguments you post reveal that you don't even understand the arguments being made.

Have you ever seen Star Wars? Think about Star Wars. Han Solo is almost never serious and jokes around all the time. Darth Vader is super serious and never jokes. By your bizarre way of thinking, Darth Vader should get to be a jokey goofball too, because "why make an exception for one and not the other?" Apparently you literally cannot grasp that different characters in a story can serve different narrative roles, and that their personalities should match their roles.

6815547d8b496XKILLJOY988

Re: "System Shock" Demo
6815547d8b4ef
It is your complete lack of capacity to comprehend why in the same story different characters should act in different ways. This is not about differences of opinion. The counter-arguments you post reveal that you don't even understand the arguments being made.

Have you ever seen Star Wars? Think about Star Wars. Han Solo is almost never serious and jokes around all the time. Darth Vader is super serious and never jokes. By your bizarre way of thinking, Darth Vader should get to be a jokey goofball too, because "why make an exception for one and not the other?" Apparently you literally cannot grasp that different characters in a story can serve different narrative roles, and that their personalities should match their roles.


You think I don't know that?, I'm just saying that the arguments as to why some people don't like Rebecca's lines are stupid, and I was bringing up a point as to why "professionals" don't always act like professionals (and Rebecca wasn't wasn't acting like a professional).
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