SSR: Who has decided not to back it?

[66ee5ba883d4eNameless Voice]

So, we've had a lot of people (us "grumpy old purists") saying that they disagree with the direction of the new System Shock reboot.

So, how many of you have actually decided not to back it, and for what reason?

Personally, I'm leaning towards not backing it because, while I liked the demo, everything they've said elsewhere is that they plan to completely shift the genre and make it into a completely different kind of game than the original.  They name it "System Shock" to sound closer to the original, while at the same time wanting to make it significantly different from the original, gameplay-wise.

[66ee5ba88409dunn_atropos]

Rather torn here.
On the day the the kickstarter began I was confidend that I would back even if my computer could not run it. Just because it's a System Shock game.
But some changes like the new old name, the omission of the original music, stuff like excessiv animations and removal of freedom in gameplay make me hesitant. I don't know if this game will be what I hoped it would turn into.
Right now it looks like they will reach their initial goal, so they won't need me and the few shabby $s I could spent, so I'll just wait a few days and make a decision then.

[66ee5ba884293Join2]

There's a number of minor red flags (no use mode-centric UI, excessive anims etc) and the shift in music is not too favorable among the many it seems. Not sure what to think of the story changes yet. Other than that it shows promise and I think some may be overreacting just a little. The promise of RPG systems I don't have a problem with either, as long as they know what they are doing. Shock 1 should have always had a little more than linear progression of software & hardware in my opinion. Felt like a glaring omission.

Even if it turns out sub-optimal it'll still very likely be better than Bioshock, at least. 

[66ee5ba8845d5Olfred]

I'm still unsure about backing it or not. So far I've only backed one project on kickstarter (Shenmue 3) so I'm not the one to easily toss money around for uncertain things.
At first I was willing to back the moment it will be live, but then I saw the Rewards and none looked attractive to me.
I really want a physical copy of the game to put on my shelf, but 75$ is just too much. I don't care about all the digital goodies or extra digital copies of games I already own anyway. And I am not intrested in a beta as well.

I honestly don't mind that they are going to change some game mechanics as long as it won't be too drastic. It's not like they are going to do it like Bioshock did (at least let's hope so.) For a faithful remake there is the Citadel Project started by JosiahJack. So I welcome that there will be an "updated to todays gameplay" kind of game.

[66ee5ba8846f2Join2]

^Updated to 1999's gameplay and going from there is preferred. Shock 2 fixed the major problems of its predecessor: controls, GUI etc in spectacular fashion. There isn't much to draw from today's design conventions.

[66ee5ba8848f1Zanderat]

(copying from another post I made, but seems applicable.)

All this criticism of NDS seems unfair, at this point.  This isn't Bethesda turning Fallout 4 into Minecraft.  Kick is as big a SS fan as any of us here.  Do you really believe that he spent all that time and money to obtain the rights for some nefarious reason, to make millions?  Seriously.  he will be lucky to cover costs and make a reasonable salary.  All signs point to a very faithful reboot.  There will be some changes (jury is still out on the music, for example), sure.  But really, the NMA wanna-be's here will drive NDS off and they will stop listening to us.

[66ee5ba884a51ZylonBane]

I don't know why you keep mentioning the Nintendo DS.

[66ee5ba884defXKILLJOY98]

This isn't Bethesda turning Fallout 4 into Minecraft. 

(Sorry to get off topic, but) bethesda never turned fallout 4 into minecraft.

[66ee5ba885037XKILLJOY98]

I don't know why you keep mentioning the Nintendo DS.

NDS= Night Dive Studios

[66ee5ba885290Zanderat]

(Sorry to get off topic, but) bethesda never turned fallout 4 into minecraft.

Have you played FO4?

[66ee5ba8854b9Zanderat]

I don't know why you keep mentioning the Nintendo DS.

Need to keep you guessing.   

[66ee5ba8857d4lgs]

(Sorry to get off topic, but) bethesda never turned fallout 4 into minecraft.

They did, Todd Howard even literally said they took inspirations from Minecraft, and latest dlcs made it even more obvious.

[66ee5ba885996fox]

Me. I might have at the last minute if it would have been needed for it to succeed. But seeing that this is not going to be a problem and that the recent news were not all that reassuring to me, I will not! I'd like to have that big box but after a few more important and costly investions I'll have to live with out it for now. 

[66ee5ba885c9dMyagi]

I'm 100% not backing. 'Cos, RPG 'n stuff.

I'll give you grumpy, but I wouldn't really call myself a purist though. I can think of a bunch of things I wouldn't mind or even would like seeing changed, added or extended. And music? I couldn't give a rat's ass! I always turn it off in games, but I wouldn't mind some campy elevator music playing even when music is turned off. But what I don't appreciate is a shifting of the core experience/style of SS1 like that.

I find the claimed superiority of SS2, as if it was some universal truth, a bit offensive even. Stuff like "better and more badass sequel", "By implementing those systems we're going to have kind of like the penultimate System Shock experience". If SS2 is so f'ing grand then go remake SS2 then.


To put the above into some context, I like SS2 a lot even if it didn't sound like that, and there are things that would be nice to grab from SS2, but on my personal list of stuff that SS2 did wrong, the shift towards RPG is the clear #1. Even then, if there was an SS2 remake I wouldn't want removal of that, because SS2 is SS2.

[66ee5ba885e35voodoo47]

I would really, really like to see clarified whether a classic mode will be available in case the rpg additions stretch goal is reached before I make my decision.

[66ee5ba885f6cfox]

They declared their goal to make the main game a hybrid of SS1 story/setting and SS2s mechanics so it's very unlikely they will put much, if any, effort into a classic mode. I even believe that most of those rewards are going to make it into the game even if they don't reach the goals.

[66ee5ba8863a7Dj 127]

I find the claimed superiority of SS2, as if it was some universal truth, a bit offensive even. Stuff like "better and more badass sequel", "By implementing those systems we're going to have kind of like the penultimate System Shock experience". If SS2 is so f'ing grand then go remake SS2 then.

Yeah, this. I will admit that from what I know of both games I prefer SS 2 too, but stating that SS 2 was objectively the better game and so SS 1 should be heavily altered because it will clearly be better is a bit too bold.  I have no problem with Night Dive changing up SS 1 their own way or with them taking stuff from SS 2, but I do have a problem with people claiming that SS 1 should be heavily altered to play like SS 2 because that's obviously going to be better. I mean, if that's really the case, then wouldn't Night Dive be better off taking SS 2 as a base instead and then building a Citadel-ish environment there?

Maybe even call it "System Shock: Contracts" (Hitman fans should get the cheeky reference)

[66ee5ba886601icemann]

Personally I'll never get the need to turn SS1 into SS2.

Each is great, for their own reasons. SS1 does not need changing and neither does SS2. They each stand on their own. I'd be saying the exact same thing if an attempt were made to turn SS2 into more like SS1 (as a $$$ product).

I for one out of impulse backed the Kickstarter at the $50 level due to the extras. More than anything else, I backed it due to my love of the franchise and the fact that I want to see it (the System Shock franchise) succeed and do well. What I don't want to see is it changed to nearly beyond recognition.

I just hope that SS3 is not done under this new interpretation of System Shock gameplay. As it's being done by Otherside I'm not that concerned as of yet.

[66ee5ba886768ZylonBane]

Sounds like Night Dive should have made the RPG mode part of the baseline funding level, then made Classic mode a stretch goal.

As is, they've forced backers who actually like System Shock's game design as-is into a stressful "I hope the KS does well... but not too well" situation. And Night Dive seems either incapable of comprehending this or resolutely determined to not acknowledge it.

[66ee5ba88689bicemann]

If you have a read of the comments going on, on the Kickstarter's page, the same level of debate/argument is going on over there as well.

If anyone thinks it's only a few of us here, that feel the way we do about System Shock 1 then your sorely mistaken :p. It's on a FAR greater scale.

[66ee5ba886ce9RocketMan]

I haven't funded it.  Not planning to.  Two reasons:

1) The game isn't progressing to the extent I had hoped for in terms of sticking to the original design.  At this rate, the benefits of playing this game are outweighed by all the stuff I'm going to miss about playing the original
2) I'm hoping all the lessons learned making SS1 over again are going to serve a very important role in the creation of SS3.  Had they not done SS1, they might have royally fucked up SS3 (and who knows... they still might).  However after getting all of our feedback from just the demo and after they release the full game and get feedback from that, they're going to understand much better what they did right and what they did wrong.  Assuming they learn from their mistakes and receive criticism in a positive frame of mind, I will be more inclined to pour money into SS3, which is really what I am waiting for.

[66ee5ba886e40icemann]

All of this is making me think twice about keeping my pledge on it.

On one hand I want this to succeed so we get more System Shock games. But then if this does well, then it may have a knock on effect on SS3. Hmm. Decisions, decisions.

Either way, they are definitely going to hit that 900k. Just a matter of when not if, considering the speed the $$$ is going up.

[66ee5ba886f70RocketMan]

Did anybody keep track of the kickstarter total since it started, in regular time intervals?  I meant to do that but dropped the ball.

I'd like to graph the total vs time and extrapolate.  It's crude and inaccurate but I'm curious what number this kickstarter will end on.  Anybody want to make it interesting?

[66ee5ba88705dicemann]

All I know is that day 1 they got to $300-$400k, then it's slowed a bit since.