SSR: Who has decided not to back it?

[66ee78c394dcaNameless Voice]

No need to track its progress yourself:
https://www.kicktraq.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock

[66ee78c3950c3RocketMan]

Thanks for the link.

What's that trending BS?  What math did they do to figure it would make that much?

[66ee78c3952f5Join2]

I find it upsetting that this KS is doing far better than the return of Looking Glass themselves (in some form) with Underworld Ascendant. Sure NightDive's pitch has generally been a hell of a lot better, showed less signs of dumbing down and compromise, and even came with a nice demo...but a return of Paul Neurath, Tim Stellmach etc should be more relevant than a relative newbie remaking one of their old games.

Comes down to the game itself I guess and I fully respect that. Underworld Ascendant's pitch was a bit disappointing. Though of course the Bioshock connection factors in to NightDive's success. I always thought Otherside should have opened with a System Shock game rather than Underworld, purely based on the fact that System Shock is the better known game series and would have set them off to a better financial start. 

What's that trending BS?  What math did they do to figure it would make that much?

It's inaccurate math that's certain. I estimate it'd get somewhere between 1.5 to 2 million, but you never know for sure. It's all about that marketing.

[66ee78c39541dRocketMan]

For those of you who might be remotely curious, based on 5 days of data, I curve-fit an exponential function, 665.5e^(-0.6292x) and came up with an answer of $1.057M.  Of course that won't be the real-world number but I bet it won't be far off either.

[66ee78c395580Hikari]

Curious, also a bit disheartening. Hoping to at least see the linux stretch goal.

Sadly Mighty No 9 I fear is the immediate reason beyond the kickstarter itself. It got a LOT of money and only recently released a rather dud of a game just when we needed least someone to scare potential backers with a boogyman of 'look how this projecrt that got millions failed.'

[66ee78c395786Briareos H]

There are plenty of things I don't like about the demo (info text being so slow to display, music, cameras, long animations, interface) but given the stage in development, I am hopeful that they will be fixed. On the other hand, I really love the art style and faithfulness to the original design.

However, none of that compares to the fact that System Shock is first and foremost an exploration-based FPS. It doesn't have RPG elements: like for Metroid games, the character progression is entirely done through tools, weapons, and augmentations found by the player, sometimes wery well hidden. This is the absolute core of the game for me, and I have zero intention to back a System Shock remake where this core is intended to be changed in any way.

I know it may sound unfair, especially to people who so clearly want to put forward their love of the System Shock games, but that's too important for me and System Shock *is* my favourite game. Ever. Not System Shock 2, not Ultima Underworld. There's a reason for it.

[66ee78c3958c5Hikari]

Oh it's totally fair! I'm pretty sure the demo we've seen is the demo that all the screenshots have come from over the past while before now, and they're supposed to give a bugfix to the demo next week so i"m hopeful. This is them with a chance to show they can respond to feedback.

And yea I'd prefer more metroidvania than ssytem shock 2's stat system. I shared my idea(s) on the rpg thread

I mean I'm gonna back provided they show that my hardware won't choke and die (might even back then but unsure. Too much else in the air at the moment.) However a lot rides on what sort of communications they give to everone.

[66ee78c395b47icemann]

To give an example of a Kickstarter done right:

I played Shadowrun on the SNES back in 94 I think. Absolutely fantastic game. Led me in search of it's origins, after which I discovered the pen and paper series that the video game was based off of. Who was one of the people that came up with it (the pnp side)? Jordan Weisman.

Fast forward to 2012 and who creates a new company (Harebrained Schemes), and starts up a Shadowrun videogame Kickstarter? Same guy. Video and campaign were very well done and the KS was a HUGE success as was the later expansions. Why? Because it stayed true to what made the universe what it was. Now sure the gameplay in Shadowrun Returns is different to the SNES game (turn based rather than a action RPG), but made it what it was, was there in spades. Much more so in the expansions. For me these games were my most wildest dreams come true, and then some.

Sure their different to that original game yes in some ways, but they feel the same, as they were done by those that know that game universe. I got my greatest wish for a video game franchise return done right thanks to Harebrained Schemes. I owe them thanks more than I could ever say in words. They brought back Shadowrun and brought it back to life. Thank you Harebrained Schemes.

Satelite Reign which was a spiritual successor to the "Syndicate" strategy action games of the 90s comes a close second.

[66ee78c395c5aBriareos H]

I want to add that while I don't intend to give them my money in advance, the end result might very well be a great game I will buy. I just don't want to participate in the funding of such a (potentially) radical change.

[66ee78c3962caXKILLJOY98]

...removal of freedom in gameplay

In what way?

Even if it turns out sub-optimal it'll still very likely be better than Bioshock, at least.

Bioshock was a very good game (but lets not get off topic).

Have you played FO4?

Yes, sure, there could have been a bit less focus on the crafting system, but that doesn't mean that it is minecraft.

They did, Todd Howard even literally said they took inspirations from Minecraft, and latest dlcs made it even more obvious.

Source?

[66ee78c3964c2Zanderat]

One thing I don't get is the gnashing of teeth and drama over a throw away article (Euro Gamer) that was riddled with factual errors.  There were some things about the demo that I didn't like (music) but mostly it was pretty spot on to what an updated SS1 should be.  The demo is PRE-ALPHA and is feature lacking and not at all finished.  But it needed to get out as such for the KS.  Kick has provedn that he cares about SS as much as anyone here.   Feedback and criticism are important.  But some of it here is crazy.  Where did any one get the idea that NDS was gonna change SS into a Bioshock clone?  I don't get the hostility evidenced by some towards NDS.  This is good as it gets.  Did you anyone really want EA to resurrect their license?  I for one am happy that it is being worked on by former LGS staff (both Warren S.  and Paul N. are consulting on SSR.)  NDS has hired Chris Avellone (Black Isle/Obsididan) to work on it.  Want more do you want?

[66ee78c39659aNameless Voice]

There's also the stretch goals.

[66ee78c396749Synaesthesia]

Well, we want them to do everything we want. We just won't fund it, so they have no incentive to listen to us!

[66ee78c396842icemann]

In that you are wrong. If they want their game to be funded they do need to listen to fans, otherwise they wont be. That said, as soon as they pass the target goal then yes they can choose not to listen, but not before.

[66ee78c3969feAurora]

I have not backed SSR at least yet.

They don't seem to have developed a solid idea of the project's direction yet, given how many changes there have been that seem last minute, out of the blue, and not too well planned ahead. I don't necessarily even object to a lot of changes, but they have been made without enough foresight and people were given a false impression of what the game was going to be about.

In my opinion they need to listen to people's thoughts more first, spend more time developing a solid idea of exactly what kind of game it'll be and how they're planning to make that work, and then flesh it out.

[66ee78c396b62icemann]

I've removed my pledge. First time I've ever done that with Kickstarter. I can't support something financially that I don't have full confidence in. It's just far too much of a change from what made the original the excellent game that it is.

[66ee78c396e53voodoo47]

Well, we want them to do everything we want. We just won't fund it, so they have no incentive to listen to us!

I (and quite a few users here, and not just here, I'd imagine) need to know whether the classic mode will be available should the rpg additions stretch goal is reached before backing it. because if that happens, a very different game will be made, one that not everyone will want to back. I did submit the question via Kickstarter, but maybe I should contact Kick directly.

also, for anyone who misunderstands, we rip everything apart, and point out all the flaws and risks because we WANT the game to succeed. we WANT it to be good. if that makes people hate us, but helps in the end, so be it.

[66ee78c396f69Hikari]

Personal thoughts are they want people to rip everything to shreds. However it's the unprodective weenie waggling and attacking posters for their views that is... well, to put blunt, toxic.

[66ee78c39704avoodoo47]

I don't think I've seen a "you've ruined the game, I hate you" + ragequit post anywhere around.

[66ee78c397467Learonys]

I have not backed SSR at least yet.

They don't seem to have developed a solid idea of the project's direction yet, given how many changes there have been that seem last minute, out of the blue, and not too well planned ahead. I don't necessarily even object to a lot of changes, but they have been made without enough foresight and people were given a false impression of what the game was going to be about.

In my opinion they need to listen to people's thoughts more first, spend more time developing a solid idea of exactly what kind of game it'll be and how they're planning to make that work, and then flesh it out.

I've removed my pledge. First time I've ever done that with Kickstarter. I can't support something financially that I don't have full confidence in. It's just far too much of a change from what made the original the excellent game that it is.

Funny now i'm reading this, but this is exactly why i funded $150 for the developer+ forum access. I'm not saying that I know what's best for the game by a long shot compared to others, but I want to give constructive feedback as quickly as possible when they release a new gameplay feature or whatever alongside other backers, to prevent exactly your concerns from happening. Not that they're going to stop reading these forums anyhow, but you get my point. I just hope I can record the game at higher than 15 FPS for "proper" bug tracking, I only ran the game at 22 FPS to begin with.

[66ee78c39756aDKDArtagnan]

Backed it at 150$ tier.

I was definitely hoping for the 1.4M goal - but that's quite doubtful at this point.

Seems certain to reach its funding goal, at least.

[66ee78c3976b3WhyNottt]

Im actually somewhat hoping that they wont actually reach that goal. Im in that group of people who feels like adding SS2 elements to SS1 wouldnt be a very good idea, and I dont think that anything we say or do will change their minds on the subject given how the developers had expressed that they all love SS2 and want to follow its footsteps somewhat. This is a shame for me, since some of the stuff they wanted to add seem like it would be pretty fun - the hardcore/ironman modes for instance I could see being quite a blast. Its a pity that they made it an all-or-nothing kinda deal.

[66ee78c397a4bZanderat]

Funny now i'm reading this, but this is exactly why i funded $150 for the developer+ forum access. I'm not saying that I know what's best for the game by a long shot compared to others, but I want to give constructive feedback as quickly as possible when they release a new gameplay feature or whatever alongside other backers, to prevent exactly your concerns from happening. Not that they're going to stop reading these forums anyhow, but you get my point. I just hope I can record the game at higher than 15 FPS for "proper" bug tracking, I only ran the game at 22 FPS to begin with.

You make a good point.  I upped my bid to $150 to gain access to the dev forums also.    Hopefully, I will see you there!

[66ee78c397b6eSynaesthesia]

I tossed in $150, but that was only for the collectible stuff. The developer forum sounds interesting, but there's no guarantee that it won't be a miserable place full of complaints and lacking direction.