SSR What do we actually want?

[66ee33425f081Hikari]

Let's set aside whatever NightDive has done or will do. Shove aside the stretch goals, stated intents, all of it. Instead I want to hear from the people most dissatisfied with things.

What would your take on Rebuilding System Shock any way you like be? Don't be afraid to be rediculous or unreasonable. The best thing here is to be honest so that people know what you want with zero compromising or corners cut.

[66ee33425f375Nameless Voice]

I want System Shock built for current hardware capabilities and with the the experiences of the intervening years taken into account.
Bringing an old game up to date for the current day, retaining everything that was great about it, improving some areas that weren't great, but basically making it the same game only better.

• Improved graphics
• More detailed levels that still follow the original concept (e.g. more detailed rooms, more objects, clutter.)
• Improved sound quality (especially the sound effects were very low bitrate and somewhat poor)
• The original story - perhaps expanded a bit, with more side characters, logs, etc. - but with all core points remaining the same.
• Improved controls - proper FPS controls, mouselook, etc. - but not too streamlined - must have leaning.
• Improved combat - better weapons, better AI, more challenge.
• The same sense of exploration and problem-solving - no hand-holding, limited mission control, no objective markers.
• Slightly upgraded / more complex hardware system - but again, not deviating too far from the original game.

[66ee33425f4e6Zanderat]

Same as NV.  Maybe elaborating on the later levels that seemed rushed/unfinished in SS1, doors "broken beyond repar", etc.

Modding capability.

[66ee33425f836RocketMan]

The ability to fix that door that won't stop opening and closing on level 1.

That is the OLNY important thing for me!!!1

[66ee33425f9b7Learonys]

- Improved AI to make for more exciting combat encounters, and perhaps more jumpscares. SS1 was always creative with jumpscares.
- A further improved atmosphere of the station which suits each level
- More variety in ambient sounds, take SS1's audiolog background noise as an example
- More varied enemy attacks, not the same "stand-still-and-shoot-with-hitscan-enemy" most of the times
- A return of the LBP meter 
- Mod support
- If for some reason some form of multiplayer is added, an auto-downloader to download files unique for every server
- A remix/reimagination of the original soundtrack to fit the reboot

- oh, and doors closing and opening on itself should be done more... 

[66ee33425fd06Myagi]

To expand on NV's list with things I'd like to see. I'll focus on putting the added computing power since '94 to use in making the immersive sim more simmy and more immersive

• Improved physics - which comes automatically with (relevant) engines today, but that's not what I mean. I mean put the improved physics to use so the player can do stuff with it, and not just as a decorative passive element as many games use it. Be it the ability to pick and up and drop objects in a more controlled fashion, some fun interactions or puzzles.
• Sound propagation - see SS2/Thief. It may or may not be true, but it seems the simplistic 2D(-ish) level layout of SS1 would make implementation a little bit easier.
• Improved AI - not what people usually seem to mean by that, combat (*snore*, sure it shouldn't suck but I find the other stuff more interesting), I'm talking about their sensory systems and non-combat behavior. Again see SS2/Thief. An AI that has a more simulated approach to their vision and auditory systems (sound propagation comes into play again). Some more extended patrolling, searching, etc. where applicable.
• More systemic interactions/components - vague, I know.
• NOT a bunch of added/new player centric stuff - scripted/trigger events like jump scares is not I want to see a lot more of. An important aspect of the SS1 experience was the feeling of dropped into world going about its business (in the context of the technical capabilities '94).

I could imagine other things as well, at least for consideration/testing. Like for example ability to hack, via terminals, some implant/sw or from cyberspace, to access security cams and be able to get a view through them (in a generalized fashion). Additional gadgets, like for example the Thief 2 scouting orb (given the implants like sensaraound it would seem much more fitting to shock than thief). Anyway, this would be a more random and loosely defined list so I'll leave that for now.

[66ee33425fe74fox]

While I do agree with you Myagi, I think some of these things are probably better off in a new sequel because integrating all that into the original would alter the experience maybe a bit too much, just like the rpg-systems.

[66ee33425fff6Myagi]

In SS3 I expect, nay, I demand them and then some

But even for a remake/reboot I think they're worth a consideration. To me however those things enrichen the immersive simness, but don't alter the core experience. They're extrapolations of what the game was, but couldn't do due to technical limitations and dev time. Unlike RPG-elements, which both LG and the engine was perfectly capable of but were deliberately not done. YMMV of course.

If you're talking about the last paragraph that had some examples with more specific game elements then that was more of an "I would be interested in exploring" extra, while the point list was the "official" part of my list.

[66ee334260331fox]

If you're talking about the last paragraph that had some examples with more specific game elements then that was more of an "I would be interested in exploring" extra, while the point list was the "official" part of my list.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

[66ee334260456Matty]

@Myagi: We have a fairly advanced system that accounts for occlusion and obstruction of sound that's in the demo right now. There are a few more kinks to work out, but it's working fairly well already. It uses a pathfinding algorithm, so it's not doing a perfect job of sound propagation, but it's still more than most games do.

[66ee3342605b0ZylonBane]

I actually want item descriptions to pop up instantly, not maybe after a two-second delay. SS2 got this right.

[66ee334260bf7Join2]

Yeah. While I like the "typed on the fly" style of drawing text it should be reserved only for specific things like object descriptions when you pull up the UI, not object interactions in a interaction heavy game where speed is dire to save from tedium/annoyance. Similar way to having a pickup anim for every object would be a really bad idea. At least SS1's dragging and dropping into your inventory involved you in the interaction and was somewhat simulated. That's one of few good reasons to slow object interactions down.

• Improved AI - not what people usually seem to mean by that, combat (*snore*, sure it shouldn't suck but I find the other stuff more interesting), I'm talking about their sensory systems and non-combat behavior. Again see SS2/Thief. An AI that has a more simulated approach to their vision and auditory systems (sound propagation comes into play again). Some more extended patrolling, searching, etc. where applicable.

Would like this as well as considerably competent combat AI.

*becomes inspired to do more artificial intelligence programming for Deus Ex*

While I do agree with you Myagi, I think some of these things are probably better off in a new sequel because integrating all that into the original would alter the experience maybe a bit too much, just like the rpg-systems.

All the things he suggested are in-demand naturally due to the new engine. Physics interactions, better AI, better audio design factoring into the gameplay etc. There's no reason not to beyond "gameplay must be pure but changing everything else is fine...because!", which is bullshit.

[66ee33426213evurt]

- oh, and doors closing and opening on itself should be done more... 

This.

Improved AI. Stupid and predictable AI's arent very scary.

[66ee3342622c3CaveManta]

I just had a thought about something I would find interesting.
   What if the intro of the game were playable, rather than being a cutscene? You'd get to hack into Trioptimum's network, be subdued by cops, and best of all, see a little bit of Citadel Station before things went haywire.
   It goes counter to the original game, but it would be a more "modern" way to start things off. Many modern games forego cutscenes in lieu of maintaining immersion.

[66ee334262588RocketMan]

This.

Just for my own clarification, you mean doors that automatically open and close when players approach them right?  Not doors that randomly open and close forever like the one in SS1 hospital level?

[66ee334262955Kolya]

I just had a thought about something I would find interesting.
   What if the intro of the game were playable, rather than being a cutscene? You'd get to hack into Trioptimum's network, be subdued by cops, and best of all, see a little bit of Citadel Station before things went haywire.
   It goes counter to the original game, but it would be a more "modern" way to start things off. Many modern games forego cutscenes in lieu of maintaining immersion.

First I thought this is a great idea, but now I'm not so sure anymore. Because very specific things need to happen in a fixed order with a definite outcome. Giving up control to the player - as is System Shock's forte - would be impossible. In order to move the action forward you'd end up with a barely interactive cutscene, like the Bioshock intro. And that's exactly what System Shock is not.

[66ee334262c10Learonys]

Just for my own clarification, you mean doors that automatically open and close when players approach them right?  Not doors that randomly open and close forever like the one in SS1 hospital level?

He meant the door in the medical level randomly opening and closing, as doors opening and closing when you pass through them are quite predictable


But, these kinds of inpredictable patterns is what makes a horror game scary. The fact that they annoyed you only proves that they do their job well. Where would the scary part of a horror be if a player knew exactly what to do to which enemy, and what is going to happen next? Boooring!

[66ee334262d52CaveManta]

I agree with you, Kolya. It would trudge on with not much to do. But perhaps it could serve as a tutorial to acclimate new players to the game. System Shock literally throws you into the game with a screen full of instructions, which could be better conveyed through interactive events.
System Shock 2, like Bioshock, begins slowly with not much to do. Except you can rush past the tutorials and get through the intro quickly if you don't want to waste time. I'd like something simple like that.

[66ee334262efcAurora]

What would be cooler is if you could briefly explore your surroundings in New Atlanta. You need to get new hardware for your computer or something. Once your machine is complete and you use it, it starts the cutscene and the rest is history. Would provide a brief introduction to ingame interactions.

I wonder if they'll place New Atlanta in America or on the Saturn colonies, as there is conflicting lore over that. Maybe they'll leave it in ambiguity.

[66ee334262ffaZylonBane]

There's already a brief introduction to in-game interactions where you explore your surroundings and pick up new hardware-- the locked room that you wake up in on Citadel Station.

[66ee334263171CaveManta]

Seeing a little more of New Atlanta would be cool. I picture Hacker staying in his/her room like a hermit, though, shopping online. Heck, they probably have delivery robots that fly goods to your house. The very beginning of Soma is kinda what I'm thinking of, except futuristic.

When I was first getting into System Shock, I read this one fanfiction called Genesis - Shock Zero, which was about Abe Ghiran's history, and some of New Atlanta's history as well. I haven't read it since then..wow, it's been a while. But it's sorta what I based my thoughts on. Have you guys read it?

Yeah, you're right, ZylonBane. The game does give you a chance to acclimate. And with "modern controls and gameplay," new fans might have an easier time getting into the game anyway.

[66ee33426341eAurora]

Seeing a little more of New Atlanta would be cool. I picture Hacker staying in his/her room like a hermit, though, shopping online. Heck, they probably have delivery robots that fly goods to your house. The very beginning of Soma is kinda what I'm thinking of, except futuristic.

If the hacker is up to no good, would he or she risk leaving a digital footprint at home?

[66ee3342636a0CaveManta]

If the hacker is up to no good, would he or she risk leaving a digital footprint at home?

Ooh, maybe it's like a rented apartment. Or perhaps Hacker is squatting? Either way, the poor still fellow gets busted =\. 

[66ee334263d67JosiahJack]

I suspect the hacker was probably noticed within the hour and 50 minutes before he actually accessed Citadel's files.  For Triop to apprehend him within 7 min of getting in, they may have been at the ready nearby.  Edward Diego, looking to cover his tracks, may have very well been looking for an "opportunity" to arise and had a protocol in place to delay apprehending any hacker unless they were able to successfully hack their most heavily gaurded data.  This would be a way for E.D. to screen for someone who was capable of overriding SHODAN'S ethical constraints.

Or, cops in the future are much faster than they are now, since they would be privatized and under authority of a corporation.