Night Dive Twitch Streams

[675acf615940cJDoran]

Pssst.... all computer graphics are CGI. You mean pre-rendered cutscenes.

Yes, sorry about that. But gamers often (albeit wrongly) called pre-rendered cutscenes 'CGI', and habits stick, though they often shouldn't.

I though RE 2 on the n64 had none due to the major size restrictions of cartridges compared to cds. The ps1 version is wayyyyyyyyyyy better.

No, the N64 had all of the cut-scenes of the PSX version, though in some cases the N64 version's did look inferior to the PSX version. The N64 version contained everything from the PSX version, despite only being on one 64MB cartridge, versus two PSX 650MB CDs. There was an article on the 'net about how the developers managed to get it all into 64MB, I can't remember the details exactly, but broadly I think I recall;

- There was duplicate data across both PSX CDs, which on the N64 cartridge need only be included once, of course,

- The uncompressed audio in the PSX version was compressed (as usual) on the N64 cartridge, otherwise the game wouldn't have fit in the cartridge at all, let alone leave space for anything else. Audio was compressed in many N64 games, maybe all, but the best music on N64 games always sounds great, with no signs of the compression adversely effecting the quality of the music,

- The CGI in the N64 version was cut from 30 frames per second to 15 FPS, and identical parts of the frame (a small or even full screen part of the screen that didn't change between two or more consecutive frames), were only stored once and intelligently put into the CGI when it was rendered. This apparently saved a lot of data, and I have to say that I don't think I ever noticed the lower frame-rate of the CGI, though admittedly I'm both unobservant and used to low frame-rates since I still play 3D games on the N64 and PSX, so I'm probably not the best judge,

I can't remember any more details, but I do prefer the N64 over the PSX version, mainly because the N64 version has an optional control method where you move the analogue stick in the direction that you want your character to move in, which I *much* prefer to the rotate-and-move-forward method. The N64 version also has an item randomisation option, to change the item positions in game, to add replayability. But it's years since I played the game on any console, so I can't remember any other differences re: N64 vs PSX versions, but google shows:


https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/n64/198457-resident-evil-2/faqs/6220

1. Enhanced graphics all around. Everything, including the pre-rendered
backgrounds, are in high resolution thanks to the 4MB Expansion Pak, and
they look absolutely FANTASTIC! Character models have added detail due
to the N64's larger bag of graphical tricks, everything has added
polygons, and runs at a constant speed of 30 frames a second. The
backgrounds are sharp, and quite smooth.

2. New controller configurations to fit the N64 controller's unique fit.
After playing around with "1st person", for a few minutes, you just
won't want to go back to the "3rd" person controls unless someone put a
gun to your head.

3. Dolby Surround Sound, baby! It's just awesome to be able to turn
around and blast a Zombie to pieces, with the only warning being the
moans coming from your left speaker.

4. After beating a scenario, you can restart it and have an "item
randomizer" option turned on, that will randomize all objects in the
game. It's interesting, to say the least...

5. New files, reports, letters, and other notes have been added to link
Resident Evil, Resident Evil 3, and Resident Evil: Code Veronica's
stories together.

6. With the good, comes the bad. The FMV, although very impressive, is
somewhat blurred due to the huge amounts of compressing. 

7. In Umbrella's Secret Lab, the computer password for the fingerprint
pad is "NEMESIS." In the PSX version, it was "GUEST." Thanks goes to Neo
Darkshadow for this one.

8. Inside of the fingerprint room of Umbrella's Secret Lab, there is the
corpse of a Hunter (enemy from Resident Evil 1). The PSX version lacked
this.

9. The safe combination to receive the Police Station Map (and some
ammunition) is now '4542.'

Note that point 2, above, is worded strangely. The controller options don't (of course) change the games viewpoint, so calling the control options 'first person' and 'third person', whilst not exactly inaccurate, is apt to sound confusing. They should be called something like "Move in the direction you move the analogue stick, Mario 64 style", and "Traditional Resident Evil tank controls, rotate-and-move-forward".

And of course we had to wait an extra year to get the N64 version (waiting for N64 games was more irritating than waiting for PSX games, since the PSX, by virtue of having something like six or seven times as many games as the N64, had far less dry spots between the release of desirable games than the N64). And sadly, RE2 is the only Resident Evil game released on the N64.

[675acf6159618icemann]

Nice. I stand corrected then, though I've never played the n64 version.

I was a HUGE Nintendo fanboy during the SNES days and had planned to go on to the n64, but after seeing the plethora of JRPGs, Gran Turismo, Silent Hill and Resident Evil 1 on the Playstation 1 I was sold. More so honestly due to the JRPGs as where consoles are concerned that is my favorite thing on them. The n64 had Zelda and that's it. The PS1 had a sea of them, just like the SNES had had.

I've never been able to adjust to the N64 controller also. And I have a n64 now (due to my eBay side business) and even then I still have problems with it. Probably doesn't help that I've used a ps2 controller (via usb adapter) as my go to game pad for anything emulation wise since the early 2000s + on Steam when needed for a game.

[675acf6159eedJDoran]

Nice. I stand corrected then, though I've never played the n64 version.

I was a HUGE Nintendo fanboy during the SNES days and had planned to go on to the n64, but after seeing the plethora of JRPGs, Gran Turismo, Silent Hill and Resident Evil 1 on the Playstation 1 I was sold. More so honestly due to the JRPGs as where consoles are concerned that is my favorite thing on them. The n64 had Zelda and that's it. The PS1 had a sea of them, just like the SNES had had.

And you touch on another annoying N64 related problem; the N64 was always seen as a kid's console, whereas the PSX was seen as a console for teenagers and adults. The N64 was known for Super Mario 64, Zelda, Super Smash Bros. Mario Kart 64, etc, you know, child-friendly primary-coloured games featuring characters like a fat comedy plumber, a green dinosaur, a gorilla wearing a tie, a pixie, etc, whereas the PSX was known for Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Grand Theft Auto, Tomb Raider, Driver, and tons of fighting games where the fighters weren't cute Nintendo characters that never actually inflicted injury on their opponents.

And in Britain, the PSX was actually advertised on TV with three or four men spending the evening drinking in the pub, then all going round to one of their houses, and playing various 'adult' games (such as a realistic (non-Mario Kart style) racing game, a very violent fighting game), etc, against one another.

Of course, it's true that Super Mario 64, both N64 Zelda games, Mario Kart 64,  Super Smash Bros., etc, are all great games even for adults, and that the N64 had some really good 'adult' games of it's own (Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Shadowman, the Turok games, Body Harvest, Duke Nukem: Zero Hour, etc), but the N64 did suffer from being seen as a kid's alternative to the PSX, a problem that Nintendo didn't even seem to acknowledge, let alone try to fix.

There are two RPGs on the N64 that are supposed to be very good, but I've never played them so I can't offer an opinion. Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber, and Hybrid Heaven. I'm sure there are at least two more, but that they aren't much good at all, so no one really talks about them. The N64 having almost no RPGs was certainly a factor in the PSX beating it so massively in the console wars (according to Wikipedia, the PSX sold 102.49 million, against the N64's 32.93 million:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_(console)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64

and certainly around here, with my mate's and other people I spoke to, the PSX seemed to outnumber the N64 by something like ten to one). If I liked RPGs then I would have gone down the PSX route. In fact for most genres, I think the PSX beat the N64. But my favourite genre is the first person shooter, and to me the N64 ruled supreme there. I'd never owned a console before (I'd always been a computer gamer, since 1983 with the 8-bit ZX Spectrum 48K), but in 1998 I went round my mate's house, and he showed me his new N64 and Goldeneye. I'd never played Goldeneye before, and the next day during my lunch hour at work, I went out and bought an N64 and Goldeneye. Even today, GE is still my second favourite game, after Perfect Dark, Goldeneye's sort of spiritual successor. To me, only Timesplitters 2, and Timesplitters: Future Perfect even approach the brilliance of Goldeneye and Perfect Dark.

Another genre where I think the N64 easily beats the PSX is the third person platform game, though the N64 was really lacking in 2D platform games, unfortunately.For some reason, most games on the N64 were 3D, even though 2D games then and now could still be utterly superb. And some games just don't work in 3D, such as Bomberman or Worms (thankfully, Worms at least was still 2D on the N64). The third person shooter might be another genre where the N64 beat the PSX in my opinion, but I can't say for sure as I'm not confident that I've played every third person shooter on the PSX (both Jet Force Gemini, and Body Harvest on the N64 beat every third person PSX game that I played, though, in my opinion).

Oh, and the N64 utterly beat the PSX in one more catagory, in my experience: The worst game ever. I never saw anything as bad on the PSX as the utterly beyond awful Superman 64 on the N64. Even the idea for Superman 64 was insanely bad. According to the in-game story, Superman is in virtual reality (I can't remember why, and I don't care) not the real world, which sort of makes him being Superman utterly irrelevant, since a normal human can fly in virtual reality if the VR is programmed that way. Add in awful controls, graphics that would have been bland if they appeared on the SNES, a bad frame-rate, and 'gameplay' that involved flying through a series of hoops (with a time limit to add to the 'fun'), and you get a game that's more fun if you actually don't play it.

The same company, Titus (who were mostly awful on the N64) also released probably the worst port on the N64, Carmageddon 64. As a *huge* fan of the PC game, I was really looking forward to this, and for my money I got (in all seriousness) the only racing game I can recall where it looked at times like your car was stationary whilst the environment's graphics moved past the car. Of course, all racing games use that trick, but only on Carmageddon 64 is the illusion of the car's movement so obviosuly fake. Add in really blurred graphics, terrible controls, humans (well, zombie humans) who are so much bigger than your car that they must be over ten feet tall, a framerate that struggles to reach double figures at time, and you get a game that's glad Superman 64 exists, or it itself would likely be the worst game on the N64.

I've never been able to adjust to the N64 controller also. And I have a n64 now (due to my eBay side business) and even then I still have problems with it. Probably doesn't help that I've used a ps2 controller (via usb adapter) as my go to game pad for anything emulation wise since the early 2000s + on Steam when needed for a game.

I don't like the N64's official controller, either. After trying to get used to the N64's controller, I went into town and bought a third party one, that is to me *monumentally* better than the official pad, the Makopad 64:

It only has two prongs, it's extremely comfortable to use, all of the controls are reachable without having to shift your hands, and even though I've now had it for more than twenty years, it still works like new, whereas the official controller has a problem whereby the plastic analogue stick wears down over time, because the Makopad 64's analogue stick is metal, it still works like new. This really, really should have been the official N64 controller, if you ask me.

On the PC, though, I use an XBox 360 joypad, as to me it's probably the best controller ever. I've never tried the XBox One's controller, so I can't comment on that, but I have the Gamecube, PS2, PS3, PS4, original XBox, and XBox 360, so I'm familiar with their official controllers, plus the PSX, and a few PC controllers over the years.

[675acf615a064icemann]

The PSP capitalized on the child centered Nintendo policy to great effect. Now sure the PSP did not beat the DS, but it certainly did a hell of a lot better than any other competitor to Nintendo on hand helds. Plus the PSP had emulators and the ability to watch movies which was unheard of back then. I remember using my PSP to watch Battlestar Gallactica duringy lunch breaks at work back then (early 2000s).

[675acf615a2b4icemann]

My take on Daniel's latest stream (09.04.19)

* Show casing of game at GDC went extremely well, with positive reviews across the board. PC Gamer gave them a positive review.
* Daniel would like to have the mutants do more complicated patrol paths than in the original of just going back and forth on a path.
* Starts out showing the current state of Medical, then onto Research.
* Laser barrier doors now in (not sure if they were in last time, I forget), Shodan's face on some screens.
* The station now rotates slowly (viewable when looking out at space, looking at Saturn etc).     - What I'd like to see still is the rings of Saturn actually moving as well + space debris, maybe some asteroids etc. All to make everything look more real-ish. Prey and Dead Space has all that (not Saturn), so it can definitely be done and done well. So what's in looks good sure, but it needs more, as Saturn still looks like a static image.
* Areas of the level have been designated to different people (I assume for faster development).
* Screen showing the station rotating about, now in.
* Much of the Research work for this one is on moving all the placed level stuff into a separate BSP in Unreal, so that it can be toggled off/on, so that the new work can begin. It's likely that he'll go through the other levels and do this as well.
* Daniel mentions that the plans to remove a fair few of the weapons might not be happening anymore.     - Yay
* Daniel would like the players vision to deteriorate as they get lower and lower in health    - I like it. Goes with the cyber interface stuff.
 * Is any final art for the level (Research) done - No. Being worked on.
* Will mantling be in the game - Daniel says no at first, then corrects himself and says maybe, and that they need to look at how to make it work in the game + have support for it in the levels.
* For the animated screens, originally they used videos to function but this caused massive slow down, so these were changed over to animated textures that cycle through frames of textures (which is exactly how the original did it).

[675acf615a782ZylonBane]

What I'd like to see still is the rings of Saturn actually moving as well + space debris, maybe some asteroids etc.

What you'd like to see is completely unrealistic. First, Saturn and its rings are so vast that you'd have to stare at them for hours to see any motion, and even then you probably wouldn't see anything moving in the rings. Second, the rocks that make up Saturn's rings are astronomically tiny.  If you were close enough to see them individually, you'd be close enough to get killed by them.

[675acf615a892icemann]

Fair point. I'm just comparing to Prey and Dead Space in that regard.

[675acf615a9daJosiahJack]

[675acf615ad63sgupta]

04/24/19 Dev Stream w/ Chris (& Karlee for the first half)

* Chris is working on weapon models starting with the Dusk III Assault Rifle concept art.

* He's using the already modeled mini pistol to start from the grip area and build out, modifying as he goes to reflect the different color, shapes, etc.

* He's using the most recent version of Blender, 2.8.

* Chris uses a mechanical keyboard (ROCCAT with Titan switches); this thing sounds AWESOME to me.  ^.^

* (In response to a Question) Blender is used for animation as well.

* He had the gun jumble itself into a crazy X-shaped mess around 38 minutes in because of how the TriOp symbol was set up with boolean.  (I think he said it was because there was a face inside it).  Very easy to fix.

* The logo ends up imprinted in the bezzle (and I have to say looks super slick).

* He's doing everything on the gun with 3D geometry, not just 2D coloring.

* He doesn't really like using ZBrush if he can help it.

* He needed to alter the sight near the front from the concept to make it smaller; otherwise it's in the way of the scope.  Community pointed out it likely has a gap in it for that, so he altered it to accommodate that, though it's still smaller as well (I kind of like the revised look tho').

* He says he used to be a perfectionist, but he's learned to be more efficient and worry about the end result and what's actually seen in the game rather than imperfections in the model (ie. the internal mechanisms) nobody will actually see.

* This weapon will be powerful and one good for tougher enemies where shots count.  Probably semi-automatic, possibly with burst fire (though that might get unweildy).

* Scorpion will be full automatic and you'll use it like the mini pistol for enemies that aren't as tough.

* Mag Pulse will be the robot killer.

* Riot shotgun is no longer present and will be part of another weapon.  Shotgun will replace both that and the flechette.

* There are still plans to add some stairs, but that doesn't mean replacing ALL ramps - ramps are an important part of System Shock still.

* He's a big fan of working with booleans (which I think from context is a method of combining shapes/objects) - it works well in Blender but can also lead to things like the jumble involving the gun TriOp logo earlier in the stream (but was quick to fix).  Booleans make things easier and quicker to fix in the long run.

* He puts the lettering in 3D so he doesn't have to redo it with every UV map change.

* It's named the DUSK III because Mark Dusk is the one mostly developing the UI, and like the original, some of the new weapons have names of people who are working on them in the model name.

* He likes using Symmetry, but sometimes he uses Mirroring if it's extra complex.

* He got quite a lot done - not the scope or shoulder stock part, but most of the rest of the weapon.  Will probably continue next Wednesday.  Some great progress here tho'!

[675acf615b00fsgupta]

04/29/19 Dev Stream w/ Daniel

* He's glad to be doing a dev stream as he's been really busy with other things, such as managing the Blood team and moving.

* He's working on Level 3 today.

* Lots of stuff going in such as weapons, etc.

* More concept art is coming as well as some other things they're not talking about yet.

* They're going to initial certain weapons using their names like the original devs did.

* No confirmation yet if there will be ray-tracing in the game; it was introduced to UE4 if they want it and would be nice.

* Next stream might be Reactor level work.

* He shows off the new Respawn Chamber about 43 minutes in.

* He'd like to make the game a little different every playthrough so certain things might be in a different place (ie. beta instead of gamma) to add replayability.  He likes some randomness aspects to games.  They may explore that.  He also wants the reactor code completely random - not a set pattern.  Possibly other codes too.  One community member was concerned about speedrunners, but he said they'd be able to glitch through stuff anyways. 

* He was working on the Groves but told to stop as they're doing something different with the Groves.  He's thinking about extra areas they can fit in to use what was going on with the Groves previously.  He may move on for the moment as that's going to require more thought and careful planning.  Bedrock is done though.

* Also some work on Storage rooms and such.

* They ended up being unable to use a lot of the work/assets on the pre-hiatus build because of art style and technical differences.

* Work in Cyberspace is progressing.  It's definitely more defined and detailed than the original's grid and they're a bit concerned about motion sickness because of that extra detail.

* Based on a Q, they did consider an option to skip Cyberspace if people get motion sick, but that feels cheap/lazy and they don't want players to miss out on something that isn't their fault.  Plus, the final boss battle in the OG was in Cyberspace.

* Based on a Q, they want to make it more apparent when people pick up something new in Cyberspace.

[675acf615b130icemann]

Watching the stream currently.

* Did someone hack the stream around 0:38:00? A bit of audio from someone else talking came through.
* Loot-able bodies are now in.
* Daniel says he'd like the reactor code to be random on every play through.     - Er. It is random in the OG. It was a fixed code in ND's update of the game.

[675acf615b267Gawain]

Yep, code is random.

[675acf615b668sgupta]

05/1/19 Dev Stream w/ Chris & Jonathan (Stephen joins an hour in).

* More work on the Dusk III Assault Rifle - lots of detail work (grebels, scope, shoulder rest, scratches, etc); really interesting to watch IMO if you're interested on how things are modeled.  The weapon ends up prettymuch done.

* Audio for Jonathan is a bit spotty for the first half, but I think he said he has some Research Tile Sets that might be teased soon.

* Chris is hoping to start work on the shotgun fairly soon after some animations are in.

* Robb Waters really likes caution-yellow-mark type imagery on stuff.   

* There's apparently a new hire on the art side of things named Kevin.  They're gonna make him do the toilets and waste models. =oP  He's actually one of their new prop artists working under Jonathan.  He's currently working on some sort of chamber holding something that Jonathan doesn't want to spoil yet.

* Q: Will the game have aiming down iron sights?  A: No.  Part of this is because your cybernetic rig helps with the targeting so using the iron sights wouldn't make much sense.  Scoped weapons, however, will still work similar to iron sights.

* Gun ammo counter displays will work in-game.

* Some people are upset weapons are being cut, but Nightdive feels like some of the weapons just didn't make sense anymore (ie. the riot gun) and that people didn't use them.  Along with art updates and more cohesive styling, they're basically aiming to make the game more polished and refined as a whole everywhere, from level layout and props making more sense to refined weapon selection.  Also, weapon cuts and changes being made aren't set in stone until the game is nearly finished, so some of this stuff will be balanced/tweaked along the way.

* They are adding a grenade launcher to the game.

* Chris is working on a robot soon, the "main big chunky one".  The Shock-Bot Silver Trooper Variant, which is Security-1.  (Can't wait to see this!)

* The top part of the bots will be able to disconnect and become a flyer. 

* Chris is art lead but Jonathan is environmental lead. 

* Stephen has been talking to Harrison over at Volpin Props and they might do a prop weapon.  They haven't decided what gun to do - maybe the Rail Gun since it's red with lights and cool-lookin' or the Sparq Beam in the short term since it's synonymous with the game.  They'd like the prop for conventions and such like a booth at PAX.

* Q: How many weapons have finished models?  A: Four.

* Cyborg drone is coming along but not done yet.

* Nate may work on first-person animations but is currently working on mutants so they can get behavior set up.

* They're still not completely decided what game they'll be tackling next to remake.  System Shock 2 is one contender, but they might want a break between the two.  They may even let the team pick what they want to do next.  Could be an original game as well.

* There's been talk about putting System Shock Enhanced on the Gamepig inside the remake, but that might be a nightmare to do.  Would be cool tho'. 

* They may never use BSP again because they've decided it's a pain to work with.  They could do it with proxy tiles instead.  They've learned a lot during this process that they can use in hindsight on other titles.

* Q: Will they be making a System Shock 2 version with the source code Nightdive recently acquired?  A: Yes, they'd like to do a source port and will likely call it System Shock 2: Enhanced Edition.

* Gun looks really slick (IMO) by the end of the stream.

[675acf615b7d2ZylonBane]

Doing a prop of the Sparq Beam would be a bad idea, since it's a straight clone of the TNG Type 2 phaser.

Well, the grenade launcher is good news at least. No more awkward fumbling with the inventory to throw grenades.

Still annoyed about the shotgun. If Looking Glass had wanted a shotgun in System Shock, they would have included one in the first place. This just makes the weapon selection more generically Doom-like.

[675acf615b949voodoo47]

+1 to both the grenade launcher and the shotgun.

[675acf615bcfeRocketMan]

Not that a grenade launcher would be bad or anything but I liked the original throwing mechanic.  Sure it could use a refresh in terms of how ergonomic it is to throw but it was fun controlling the grenade toss when you got the hang of it. 

Generally speaking, this sort of "interact with the world in a realistic way" mechanic has been used in other games like all of Frictional's games, with mixed reviews.  Some complained that it felt disconnected and stiff while others praised it for its immersive qualities.  I think more people would like the idea if the code were simply tuned right so it didn't feel so awkward. 

[675acf615be06voodoo47]

pretty sure the reasons why the free grenades are a bad idea and should go were already listed, and I agree with them.

[675acf615bf00ZylonBane]

But in short: Everything the throwing-out-of-inventory system could do, a grenade launcher can do better.

[675acf615c0a8Synaesthesia]

I'm glad you guys like the grenade launcher. You can still throw grenades, even if you pick it (the grenade launcher) up, so it's ultimately a question of how you want to work with explosives. Our current plan is that grenade launchers allow for percussion detonation, hand-throwing allows for timed detonation. There's a use-case for both methods.

[675acf615c386icemann]

Still annoyed about the shotgun. If Looking Glass had wanted a shotgun in System Shock, they would have included one in the first place. This just makes the weapon selection more generically Doom-like.

So your saying that SS2 is Doom-like because it has a shotgun?

[675acf615c564icemann]

Watching the latest stream now:

* Jonathan sounds like he's on a truck radio type thing. Noticeable background noise when he speaks. The last few times he's been on stream, he's had audio issues. Didn't use to happen. He finds the source of it at 0:31:00, then it's fine after that.
* Jonathan gives a shout out to systemshock.org of sorts. That we're missing out by not being on in the chat live.     - Well due to the time difference between the U.S and Australia, most of these streams happen at like 2 or 3am in the morning, or around 10am. Fair enough I'm usually up at 3am, but as they go for 2 hours.
* Chris states that the rail gun in SS1, was inspired by the rail guns in the Arnie movie "Erazer".     - Er. Erazer came out in 1996 (according to Wikipedia), and SS1 came out in 94. So I doubt that was the source.
* This like the previous Chris stream, I'd recommend playing some music while your listening or watching it, as there is silent parts.
* What game will ND remake next - Nothing certain at this stage.
* Steve talks about how there's not really any games out there besides Resonance where you see through the camera feeds of several troops, and can only issue commands. Not direct control.     - Er. Space Hulk. Come on.
* Chris made the weapons for the Long War 2 mod for XCOM , prior to being employed by ND.

[675acf615cb18ZylonBane]

So your saying that SS2 is Doom-like because it has a shotgun?

It's hardly a secret that SS2 is much more of a full-on FPS than SS1. SS2 is full of enemies that will chase you down and murder you, unlike SS1's enemies, most of whom barely move at all. So yeah, SS2 is more Doom-like than the often ploddingly strategic SS1. That being said, I feel SS2 made up for the shotgun with the oddball guns like the stasis cannon and exotic weapons. SS1 has nothing like that.

I have little doubt that the modernization of SS1 will include making the enemies less sluggish, so I consider hanging onto the few unique aspects of SS1's combat system to be disproportionately important.

* Chris states that the rail gun in SS1, was inspired by the rail guns in the Arnie movie "Erazer".     - Er. Erazer came out in 1996 (according to Wikipedia), and SS1 came out in 94. So I doubt that was the source.

Indeed, Eraser and SS1's rail guns were doubtless inspired by the same source-- the rail guns that have been kicking around in scifi and reality for nearly a century. Chris was probably thinking of the Quake 2 rail gun, which was explicitly modeled after the Eraser depiction.

SS1's so-called rail gun always bothered me because it's nothing like an actual rail gun. Instead of firing a high-velocity slug, it fires a very slow-moving explosive projectile. I guess Looking Glass wanted a rocket launcher type weapon in the game, but didn't want to go with anything so mundane as a literal rocket launcher. This kind of ties back to the flechette gun. Sure it may have just been a machine gun in practice, but at least it had an evocative scifi name.

[675acf615d033RocketMan]

pretty sure the reasons why the free grenades are a bad idea and should go were already listed, and I agree with them.

But in short: Everything the throwing-out-of-inventory system could do, a grenade launcher can do better.

You guys are thinking too rigidly about what "better" is.  I'm going to assume what you really mean is that it's easier to put a grenade where you want it, when you want it, if you have a gun to deliver it with.  But that's only part of what makes something good (ie. the fact that it has good utility as a straight-up weapon).  The other aspect is how it feels to use the weapon, as compared to any other weapon.  After all, why have 10 guns in a game if they all feel the same to the player.  Might as well call them weapons 1, 2 and 3 if they don't differ in any meaningful way.  Grenades have always been separate from guns in people's head-space because they don't act like guns at all.  Firing a grenade from a gun just makes it more like a gun and less like a grenade.  It could just as easily be a rocket launcher for example. 

THROWING a grenade is a totally unique play experience and makes the effectiveness of the weapon depend so much more upon the player's technique than pointing a crosshair at an enemy and clicking the left mouse button.  If it's implemented poorly and blows up in your face all the time, fine, it needs adjustment but if it has a bit of a learning curve that most people can master with reasonable practice, then it's an asset, not a liability to the gameplay experience.

I've looked at old world war grenade designs and seen some pretty funky shapes that don't look like they'd roll too well but maybe they'd stand up better.  This offers potential in a game to let the player set a grenade down on the floor and walk away from it or throw it and take his chances with the thing acting like a football and backfiring.  There's a fine line between making a game annoying to play and offering a unique challenge but I think it's safe to say that too many games out there nowadays make the player feel pretty safe and invincible, which really hurts the fear and panic element that games like System Shock try to go for.  SS1 had the right idea with their throw mechanic and even though SS2 did away with it (probably for the reasons you have both raised), they still kept the bounce option so it seems to me they were at least vaguely aware of the importance of diversity in the weapons they were making, so that they didn't present the player with another mundane and familiar loadout of predictable and efficient crap.

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Launcher: Put crosshair over target, press button to launch grenade in an arc toward the target.
Throwing: Put crosshair over target, press button to throw grenade in an arc toward the target.

Totally different.