SCP Beta 3 Issue Reporting

[674081bbb53e2nemyax]

What will happen if I add SHTUP-ND and SCP3 to vanilla GOG and leave it at that? (Thinking of finally making a run through SCP.)

[674081bbb5657voodoo47]

depends on your definition of adding - but as long as you use the modmanager (or do its work yourself), and update NVscript to the latest version, things should work.

it's still not too recommended though - basically, only do this if you really, really know what you are doing.

[674081bbb5749nemyax]

Right, so SS2Tool it is.

[674081bbb5932ZylonBane]

Which do you guys like better, smoothly-fading apparitions, or flickery apparitions?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pykp7x6UMk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9BSaKKKWDk

(I like the flickery effect myself... makes it look more like your implant is just barely picking up the psychic residue.)

[674081bbb5a35voodoo47]

more on the smooth side, but the fact that the sound is cut rather abruptly instead of fading away together with the apparition bothers me more.

[674081bbb5b3fZylonBane]

That's caused by the animation ending before the audio file does. I tried extending the animation by adding Time Warp to the AI. It slowed the animation down, but the response system still moved onto the next step as if the animation was playing at full speed.

[674081bbb5c39voodoo47]

should be possible to tweak it by extending the number of steps and introducing proper delays. I think I'll have a look, I've done something similar before both in Thief and some SS2 minimods.

[674081bbb5d41ZylonBane]

Oh yeah, sticking a one-second delay in there before it summons the ninjas works nicely.

Note that the spooky voices are actually a separate looping audio that's played over every apparition sequence, so there's no way to fade it out.

[674081bbb6033Marvin]

Smooth.

[674081bbb61a0JML]

I like the flickering for your given reasons!

[674081bbb628fKillerBudgie]

The flicker effect looks better.

[674081bbb63b3ZylonBane]

Here's an intermediate version that attenuates the flicker based on the alpha level (the lower the alpha the less flicker there is). So the flicker is the same during the main apparition sequence, but the "guttering out" effect at the beginning and end is much diminished.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ4A1Y4Z5HQ

[674081bbb653bZylonBane]

Another question-- how does everyone feel about maintenance tools being able to restore the HP of damaged turrets? Too much of a change, or the way they always should have worked?

[674081bbb663cJML]

Sounds only logical that a maintenance tool maintains a turret. Maybe just a bit though. I would at least integrate this into the turret repair mod.

[674081bbb69b6voodoo47]

I think that if we are to start messing with how turrets work, we should either go all in (maintain/repair/modify), or not at all.

however going all in would inevitably land us in the enhanced territory - this isn't something as simple as silently adding the ability to repair broken turret ports.

I would at least integrate this into the turret repair mod.

coincidences coincidences.

[674081bbb6d43ZylonBane]

I think that if we are to start messing with how turrets work, we should either go all in (maintain/repair/modify), or not at all.

A "broken" gun in SS2 is just jammed. A broken turret, on the other hand, has literally exploded into multiple chunks of blackened twisted metal. Not really comparable repair tasks.

And modifying turrets? In addition to being a major gameplay change, IMHO such a feature would be so rarely used that it would be a waste of effort to implement. Most players are perfectly happy to blow up or hack turrets and move on.

Even just maintaining turrets is something most players would probably never bother with, which is why I'm arguing for this from more of a consistency perspective. There's no in-universe reason why maint tools shouldn't work on turrets, so for the sake of immersion, why not?

[674081bbb6e8avoodoo47]

I believe that the description/training says something about the tool being used exclusively for weapons, but that can be changed as well, so it's not a big deal.

all I'm saying is that I'm not particularly keen on having just the tool fixup functionality in SCP, but if you think it should be there, then no problem, add it. I'm pretty sure doing that will get some people screaming "SCP not vanilla as advertised, raaage!" though.

[674081bbb703bZylonBane]

The major descriptive texts don't explicitly limit its use to guns.

maintenance_tool:"Gunnery sergeants everywhere make it a point of pride that their tool of choice isn't a "loser know-nothing fix-it-all device".  The better the Maintenance skill of the operator, the more effect using the tool will have.  These tools are disposable, and can only be used once each."
Tech3:"The Maintenance skill determines the amount of improvement you can make to the condition of a weapon.  You must have a Maintenance Tool to use this skill."

Also, SCP already added the ability to "repair" turrets that have failed a hack, so having two different repair actions for the same object could be confusing.

Y'know, being able to repair frozen/non-hostile robots as well could open up some interesting possibilities...

[674081bbb71eavoodoo47]

yes I know, and I have been messing around with that functionality for a while now (the big bot repair mod is available at Engineering, and while the amount of duct tape is enormous, it does work properly).

the added ability to repair turret ports after failed hacks, while technically an altered mechanic, definitely felt like something that should have been there from day one (same goes for SFG being able to freeze turrets and cameras). being able to maintain turrets is something completely new however, and definitely feels like stepping over the line.

not that there is anything wrong with stepping over the line per se - it's a line we draw, and choose to not overstep voluntarily, so we are also free to redraw it elsewhere or step over it as we please.

anyway, my recommendation would be to not include this by default in the upcoming SCP beta4 1.0 release - once that is out, we can start thinking about enhancing, or forking or whatever.

[674081bbb7342ZylonBane]

What's your argument against being able to maintain turrets? You haven't really said.

In summary, my arguments in favor are:
- It's a logical in-universe use of maint tools.
- It's not a new gameplay mechanic.
- It wouldn't unbalance difficulty since players would have to use maint tools that would otherwise be used for their guns.
- It's fine if you can maintain turrets but not repair them. After all, you can repair replicators and keypads but you can't maintain them.

But I'll bow to the majority on this.

[674081bbb7497voodoo47]

no real arguments, just a gut feeling "this should be either a standalone mod, or part of the enhanced SCP fork", or "this is the first time I think we are going a bit too far". that's why I'm saying that I'm fine with whatever decision you'll make in the end.

[674081bbb75a2ZylonBane]

 YOUR HUMAN GUT FEELINGS DO NOT COMPUTE.

[674081bbb767bvoodoo47]

they've gotten me through stuff so far.. barely.

[674081bbb77a5voodoo47]

anyway, lets see what people think about the healing gland and its sound - in vanilla, using the gland is silent, SCP currently adds a munching sound, suggesting Goggles actually eats it. however, I've always thought that using the gland would actually mean slapping it onto the wound as a patch of sort, and letting the liquids that ooze from it (see the research report) assimilate into the body, healing it in the process. if that's the case, some sort of slimy, slappy sound would be more appropriate.

opinions?