Removing certain sounds from SCP?

[67438bccb5b42Goodshot]

Hi

Greetings from Finland I have played this game since it was relased (I bought my first cd on United Arab Emirites, when I was on vacation).. Anyway
Amazin work and thank you all for your (very) hart work. 

..But
Me and my friends don't like that you change some sounds.. like:

"Bags of chips no longer go “thud” when dropped."

"Researchable organs now sound like flesh when dropped on flesh (instead of unbreakable glass)."

These sounds are really part of THE game, my hearth always missed a beat when the sound came.. I felt afraid that someone might hear me on a "empty ship"

This is said by many newbies who have tryed THE game..
Please do an option on these sounds, or what I can do?

All looks nice anyway

[67438bccb5d29ZylonBane]

By that insane logic, nothing in THE game should be fixed.

[67438bccb5e8aVegoraptor]

I, on the other hand, quite like the new sounds; Immersion and stuff.
If you really can't stand having them, got an hour or two and ask nicely, someone might give you a hand in finding and editing the responsible file.

[67438bccb605aKolya]

You don't need to edit them, just remove them from your SCP mod.

[67438bccb630fvoodoo47]

not trivial, as this would actually require reloading the sound schemas - the sounds were not replaced, but the wires under the hood have been flipped. and just for the record, there are absolutely no plans for undoing any of the SCP bugfixes - one of the most important rules of SCP is "if it's a bug, it has to go" - and yes, potato chips sounding like a brick when dropped is a bug.

anyway, a "fix but not fix" user also pops up in the TFix TTLG topic every once in a while, and my recommendation is always the same, if you don't like what we have done, you can always NOT use the patch, or opt into a lower level of fixup - in this case, just patching up with SS2tool will give you all the critical fixes and a fair chunk of fine tuning (SCP lite if you want), and you will also be able to enjoy all the incorrect sounds. you can even slap a worse version of shotgun muzzle flashes on top, and shrink all the oversized items - that will give you a nice bit of SCP while not really using SCP.

[67438bccb63feZylonBane]

I can't even understand the mindset of someone who wants to install a bugfix mod, but doesn't want bugs fixed.

[67438bccb653evoodoo47]

obsessive fixation about certain elements of the game the individual thinks should not be altered. remember the guy that blew his top and quit the forum because the Tank OS upgrade has been bumped from 5 to 10 hp?

I have about two users in the TFix topic that refuse to use the higher poly models that are part of the resource overhaul and go to great lengths to remove them from the package (one considering only the lowres version of the vanilla models the one true way).

[67438bccb66b0Kolya]

I wouldn't act quite so condescending about it though as obsessing over details is a big part of being a fan of anything. What if someone had fixed rocket jumping in Quake? Or replaced Shodan's voice with a speech generator? Finding objective reasons for that wouldn't be hard. And yet it would still be very wrong to do so. We're all hanging on to certain aspects of the game, whether they are realistic or not. It's probably not the sound of dropping chips bags for most people but a bit more flair and a bit less ridiculing would grace you on top of the deserved thanks and respect you get for your work. I know it's difficult, I tend to act like you when someone criticises my work. Feel free to point it out when you notice.

[67438bccb678dvoodoo47]

I did not ridicule anyone, I've explained the situation and offered an alternate solution.

[67438bccb6b93RocketMan]

I figure it's a memory by association thing.  The first playthrough is always very special and we tend to instill various sensory inputs from our experience into long-term memory.  On future playthroughs, our memories get triggered every time we hear something, see something or notice a characteristic behavioural quirk of the game.  If one of these things is absent, perhaps it might go unnoticed but if it has been changed from the way we remember, it might be jarring enough to make us cringe, even if the replacement makes so much more sense than what was there before... because we don't associate it with the happy feeling we have in our memories.  That's my guess.

[67438bccb6d83voodoo47]

yeah, but if one or two modified sounds make you not want to use the entire package, then you can be almost sure something.. nonstandard is going on. this is not something your regular SS2 joe would complain about - it's just one of hundreds, if not thousands of tiny fixes that have been applied. most people wouldn't even notice, as the sound is correct now and they don't really realize it was wrong in vanilla.

[67438bccb6ea5ZylonBane]

I have to wonder how often Goodshot has been dumping bags of chips out of his inventory that he formed an emotional attachment to that ridiculous THUD sound.

The best possible interpretation of his post I can think of is that he misunderstood the patch notes and thinks we completely removed sounds for those things.

[67438bccb6f92voodoo47]

ah, that is actually quite possible - so to be 100% clear, SCP chips DO produce a sound when dropped, a proper sound of chips hitting the floor.

[67438bccb70fcGoodshot]

Hi

This is true classic game so some players may take things hard (like that tank 5 to 10 case)..
I played with the patch on and noticed those sound changes and then I read those notes.. Yes the chip bag makes some raffle sound, but it is not he same as "thud" (or brick sound).

I get  even more feeling and "nice kicks"when I drop first hybrid organ and hear that unbreakable glass sound.. Some times I try to throw organs and try to get enemies attention..  But hitting on wall with wrench works better to lure them out


Thank you for your work, I wish that I would have some hacking skills like you yD

[67438bccb7212voodoo47]

thanks, but no change to what has been said previously - the fixed sounds are there to stay, if this is a problem for you, you will have to go for SS2tool level of fixup with a couple of additional mods.

true classic yes, but even those have flaws, and flaws are to be corrected, not put on a golden pedestal and worshiped.

[67438bccb7709ZylonBane]

Yes the chip bag makes some raffle sound, but it is not he same as "thud" (or brick sound).

Yes, when you fix mistakes, they aren't the same anymore. Because they've been fixed. So are you just pointing out the obvious, or... what?

[67438bccb7a27Goodshot]

Don't get me wrong. I have been given yours mod a chance (But maybe I will not recommend it on my friends who are coming to wisit me on summer from south and they want to play System Shock 2 FIRST TIME in their lifes).. Becouse like I said earlier, some things and situations  are just part of the game..Like broken replicators with high cost stuff for examble.

Also you should be able to face some critsism or lets say callback if you make mods, that will change a little like OS uppgrates, OR  some serious sound change, like in myy case).

I think that I maybe can understand how hard this mod was to create and I respect your work. I have been played the game  trough many mods and FM:s like UNN Night Walker (without spawn fix) and first rebirth beta  of yours

This is first time when I have something bad to say. I just felt that I have to finally register and clear my mind out

I am sorry if I harrased somebody 

[67438bccb7b89ZylonBane]

Right, so you're saying you want a mod that doesn't change anything.

[67438bccb7cd3Goodshot]

No that is NOT what I said. I just said that there was a purpose on some sounds and things when the original game was developmend. Like broken replicator on hydroponics.. It is not a bug. It is part of game life.

By the way I am on shift work ( I have like 12 work days in month + some dogs and family)  I wish that I could help you all somehow, like in developement but my coding skills are poor and also bad for you I have played all my natites

[67438bccb7f45Valet2]

Oh here I must disagree. While the game is being developed there are literally thousands things to come and go, developers use some dummy stuff as a placeholder and forget to change to the actual thing later, or someone could show up one day and decide to replace blue to green, but not everywhere, because you can't keep in mind everything.

If they had a lot of time for testing, a shorter test-report-fix-test converyor, like they do now in Harmonix (ooops, NDA...), the game would be more polished at the end. But speaking of only SS2, the devs told not once that they had literally no time, and Ken almost cried to admit that if the publisher gave them 3 extra months for nailing what they had - nor for buggy multiplayer patch, it would have been a better product.

What community do here is trying to make a patch which would fix those bugs or imperfections. If a chips drops like a brick - it's a bug, and must be fixed. That's the meaning of the project. It's really weird for me to understand what are you trying to convince them to do? Fix 2998 bugs but leave only 2 because they make a nostalgic impact on you? But who decides what to fix or what to leave? My guess - the authors. So you either use it or not. Or, as being said, you can remove those two sounds from a mod folder, so the game will use the ones in the original crf-s instead.

[67438bccb8427voodoo47]

you should be able to face some critsism

we are perfectly capable of facing anything thrown at us, and we do realize the importance of user feedback, especially the negative one. every SCP change is open to discussion, and if proven improper, we have no problems refixing, but the thing is, you need to present a valid argument. and "I like it that way" or "it's been in the original release" are not such arguments. also, in this case, there is nothing to discuss about - the vanilla sound is simply incorrect, they just used the default "whud" sound and forgot to change it into something more proper. it's the same as those few doors that open into walls because they forgot to flip them 180 degrees - this is again, an oversight/bug, something that simply needs to be fixed, making any discussion pointless, and any "but this was in the original release, so it must be intentional" argument laughable, full stop.

an example of a debatable change would be the SCP annelid healing gland - the original produces no sound when used (again, an oversight that should be fixed). the currently assigned SCP sound is that of a chunky food object being consumed - however, I have proposed to change it into a slimy, slappy sound, as the general looks of the object and its editor description (Annelid_Medpatch) suggest that it's more likely it was meant to be used as something you would cover your wound with, letting the healing fluids seep in. this, unlike the doors or the chips sound, is something we can talk about.

also, you are not doing anyone a favor by using the patch/mod (except maybe yourself), as mentioned, feel free to go for a different fix/mod loadout - we have quite a lot of stuff available.

[67438bccb87cfZylonBane]

Or, as being said, you can remove those two sounds from a mod folder, so the game will use the ones in the original crf-s instead.

Nobody said you can do that. Voodoo specifically said you CAN'T do that. We didn't add a new sound file for chips being dropped, we just switched it to a different, more correct one.

I honestly can't tell at this point if Goodshot is having some sort of language barrier issue or if he's just crazy. Because you'd have to be crazy to think Irrational intentionally made a bag of chips sound like a concrete block when they're dropped.

[67438bccb8cf7Marvin]

also, you are not doing anyone a favor by using the patch/mod (except maybe yourself), as mentioned, feel free to go for a different fix/mod loadout - we have quite a lot of stuff available.

Oh my God - it's contagious! 

[67438bccb8e1aGoodshot]

I do understand all what you have to say, but my typing of english is not the best and Yes I know that I cannot just delete files at mod file. Maybe I am crazy or they made it on purpose, it is possible that we may never know the truth