A split from a topic where System posted a weird mod and all ended up terrible

[6742924842803ZylonBane]

SS2 TRASH

New, high detailed Trash Barrel Green color.

CREDITS: Cheburator900 \ System

The title checks out.

[67429248429c6JML]

Wth ZB. How about a bit more constructive feedback? I don't think the model is perfect, but definitely it is a try.
My feedback: It looks like a one-piece recycled hard-plastic cast. I'd expect something more visually appealing in front of the UNN Recruitment center.

[6742924842b0dicemann]

I like the new symbol though the green color I'm not a fan of. If 2 separate versions were made available - 1 with the grey and the other with the new green then you have my vote.

[6742924842e33voodoo47]

the object has more polys - nothing wrong with that, but agreed, the quality and choice of texture style is rather.. poor (notice the scale on the trash texture inside the barrel, that is exactly how you don't do things).

Wth ZB.

it's called hitting the nail on the head, and yes, that is exactly what happened here. as mentioned a few times, making something, and making something actually good are two very different things. anyway, it is a functional mod, so if military style trash is how your barrel rolls, you can satisfy your urges now - changed the title to be slightly more descriptive and moved to the Mods subforum.

[67429248431d9Aurora]

it's called hitting the nail on the head

Stepping on a flower stem before it ever had a chance to blossom would be the more appropriate allegory. That might be called for when you're dealing with an oversaturation of poor content, equivalent to an invasive weed species, but in this case we've got something more reminiscent of a barren field. Go on, keep up the good work and make sure nothing more will grow here.

[6742924843335voodoo47]

he will not improve unless he is aware there is room for improvement - hence, people who point that out are indispensable.

to make it short, recheck the lighting on the model, make sure the texture scale is correct, get rid of the unnecessary military layer (unless it's very intentional - trying to match the overall aesthetics of the Arcaniac pack, perhaps?), then it will pass from the meh territory into the ok land.

[6742924843596ZylonBane]

Stepping on a flower stem before it ever had a chance to blossom would be the more appropriate allegory.

"Metaphor".

[674292484373dJoin2]

I really don't understand people who "update" things in such a manner. What's up with the skin? It just makes no sense. Clearly there's some technical talent behind this, but not much sense to either make something faithful, or to make an actually interesting new design.

That said, I wouldn't say it's explicitly trash.

[6742924843a3eRocketMan]

There's nothing horrifying about it.  It just lacks a little detail and the color doesn't quite fit the ambiance.  However I have to agree about the delivery of feedback.  Providing feedback which is perfectly accurate is one thing.  Delivering it in a way which is known to elicit a negative emotional response from the author is quite another.  You can give pointed, negative feedback to someone in a way that will almost guarantee that they strive to improve their work with renewed vigor rather than quit or get pissed off.  You just have to want to.

[6742924843b3aZylonBane]

It doesn't help that one of the "authors" involved has a very long history of being an incomprehensible crazy person on this forum.

[6742924843dedvoodoo47]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUtWzH2f12A&t=11

There's nothing horrifying about it.

the trash texture is rubbish, its scale has been upped to appear highres, but this means the cans are now thumb sized. not believable within the borders of the Shock universe.

also, this topic has already acquired enough entertainment value to justify its existence, so there's that.

[6742924843f20RocketMan]

I know but c'mon guys.  I don't believe System is malicious or out to get lulz from us.  He just likes SS2 and wants to participate in his own way so he's posting something so he can join in the fun.  Whether it's good or not isn't really proper justification to open up with "TRASH".  You have to set a higher standard than that.  Criticize the work by all means but do it with a bare minimum of class.

[6742924844056voodoo47]

I don't believe that either, but that doesn't change the fact he posts weird stuff, with weird names, and occasionally weird fonts that break the modmanager. also, love that he managed to squeeze three links to his home into what technically is two and half a sentence.

but allright, will split this into a separate topic where we can discuss this forum's quality control, grumpiness and whatnot (discussion in the Mods subforum should indeed be limited to ontopic stuff, I kind of am supposed to pretend that I'm a grown up admin and things).

//done, and modified the first post to preserve the context.

[67429248443d8Aurora]

"Metaphor".

'Allegory' works just fine, too. I won't let you derail this into semantics though.

Giving people what you think they deserve for their conduct or contributions is one thing, but all you ever seem to dish out is negativity to the near total exclusion of positivity. I can say this not only based on my own observations, but also on behalf of a number of forum members who, due in part to your behaviour, have abandoned the community during my (thus far) relatively short stay here.

You've really got to have a personality problem to show off like this on an isolated internet forum and seek to put down whoever you can when the opportunity presents itself - while never complimenting anyone, nor self-reflecting like a normal person ought to. Perhaps this elevates your ego, and maybe you think you're cool, and you see positivity as meek, limp-wristed, and useless. In reality you come across as arrogant, abrasive, and having an exaggerated sense of self-importance. Making mods does not balance out the negative influences of your attitude, though it may bribe the community administrators who mistakenly think they have more to gain than lose by tolerating such behaviour.

You are 'irreplaceable' only because personalities like yours contribute towards a toxic atmosphere. That's the kind of atmosphere that leaves no space for anyone else's egos but yours; most potential modders, with experience of such personalities and social hierarchies like what's seen here, will pass the community by, or at least drop any plans to participate in its modding scene. I've seen this happen with other mod communities, where the self-important programmers, very aware of their pivotal roles in their respective projects, acted however they liked. Without exception this meant acting high and mighty and always being critical of others. Over time, the other programmers who refused to eat the lead programmers' shit disappeared.

That's what's happening here.

[67429248446adAurora]

the trash texture is rubbish, its scale has been upped to appear highres, but this means the cans are now thumb sized. not believable within the borders of the Shock universe.

Trash texture scales aside, here's a wrench from the base game:
http://i.imgur.com/nP3vbk3.png

[674292484488evoodoo47]

aside from it being too large (as mentioned, a remnant of times where objects had to be big as the resolutions were low, and z-buffers wonky. a couple of mods already address this), I don't see anything obviously wrong with it. sure, the texturing isn't perfect, but nothing that would make you facepalm.

do I want to repeat myself about the rest again? ok, why not, people here are unique, and as long as certain level of decorum is maintained, doing whatever you like is encouraged. we do send out warning if lines are overstepped, and we don't care who the offending person is. System is a special case, as we had a fair share of annoyances with him, and he was quite rude to a fellow forum member in the past, so I personally don't mind him getting a slightly harsher treatment. in this case, posting material of dubious quality while naming it very appropriately himself, combined with him being a generally unreasonable person has resulted in a shot getting fired, one that would not be acceptable in any other scenario, but here, it hits right in the middle of the bullseye.

again, it's fine to hate or love people or stuff, and to express that without sugar coating your words (as you just did in your previous post). just don't cry if people treat you accordingly then. or do - I don't really care.

[6742924844a24icemann]

I think this thread has had far more hate thrown at it, than is needed. Just talk about the bin and leave at that.

For me I think the bin looks good. I just don't like the green color.

[674292484512cAurora]

aside from it being too large (as mentioned, a remnant of times where objects had to be big as the resolutions were low, and z-buffers wonky. a couple of mods already address this), I don't see anything obviously wrong with it. sure, the texturing isn't perfect, but nothing that would make you facepalm.

There's nothing weird about it besides the fact that it's a wrench that's four fucking feet long. Why note thumb sized cans on a trash texture that are probably going to get lost in the detail anyway, but not an object overscaled between 300% and 400% that happens to be one of the most commonly used weapons in the game?

do I wan't to repeat myself about the rest again? ok, why not, people here are unique, and as long as certain level of decorum is maintained, doing whatever you like is encouraged. we do send out warning if lines are overstepped, and we don't care who the offending person is. System is a special case, as we had a fair share of annoyances with him, and he was quite rude to a fellow forum member in the past, so I personally don't mind him getting a slightly harsher treatment. in this case, posting material of dubious quality while naming it very appropriately himself, combined with him being a generally unreasonable person has resulted in a shot getting fired, one that would not be acceptable in any other scenario, but here, it hits right in the middle of the bullseye.

I find it a little problematic that a work would be judged according to its author's character. Boycotting I can understand, e.g. for something like Brutal Doom based on its author's beliefs and intentions, but to call something outright shit when you have an issue with its creator sounds rather biased. You know, some might argue that some of these qualities you attribute to System are shared by certain high ranking users of this forum, who also happen to produce custom content. Should their works then be bashed due to perceived issues with their personality? If we judged Stanley Kubrick's films based on what kind of a person he was and how he treated his actors, then they would all be awful. (Yeah, I know we're talking about a trashcan here, not the next 2001: A Space Odyssey. My point stands.)

Besides what you've said of System's behaviour on the forum, there have been others who have faced exactly the same kind of harsh treatment, yet being completely innocent of overstepping lines or offending anyone. One that immediately springs to mind is chuckles'n'chestnuts, the FM author, who has since abandoned this forum because of reasons mentioned in above posts, and who will probably never post here nor create any content again.

[67429248456ddvoodoo47]

I don't see his work being treated differently because he is who he is - the quality is low, that's a fact, and while it technically qualifies as a working mod, I myself wouldn't consider it ready for production if I were the author - would be wip material over at Engineering at best.

if you have a problem with us interacting with System in a specific way, and not with System interacting with us in a specific way, then you are the one having a problem - if he can be annoying and not picky with words, well so can we. the situation is similar with his brother in annoyingness System Shocked - he does whatever he wants, we are returning the favor - he is aware that if he doesn't like the way people talk to him, he needs to change his ways first (but apparently, he doesn't want or care). and in the end, things get fixed, so whatever, if everyone involved can take the heat, there is no problem.

and yes, I do want everything I make criticized, if the criticism is valid I will be able to improve things, if not it will make the person look dumb, providing some entertainment value. so give me your worst, I can take it.

There's nothing weird about it besides the fact that it's a wrench that's four fucking feet long.

that's why the size has been fixed, both in SCP and by the Object Shrink mod.


//the situation with chuckles is not a good example, I believe - if I remember correctly, he just posted the FM and left to do other things because he was actually planning to do that, not because of the (fair, as the FM is barely finished, and odd in many ways) criticism he received. unless he told you something we don't know about privately. //ok, his "I'm considering leaving" post was actually a reaction to my quick bugreport post, which only includes, well, bugreports and suggestions. he is clearly overreacting there. // re-reading through the topic again, a lot of praise going on, actually, considering the beta state. I really don't see anything there that would make a reasonable person bail.

[6742924845aabAurora]

if he can be annoying and not picky with words, well so can we. the situation is similar with his brother in annoyingness System Shocked - he does whatever he wants, we are returning the favor - he is aware that if he doesn't like the way people talk to him, he needs to change his ways first (but apparently, he doesn't want or care)

When people behave annoyingly, you could - I don't know - moderate? What with being a moderator and all. You would have to set a positive example yourself first though.

[6742924845bf5voodoo47]

why? let people be who they are. ask me nicely, I'll answer nicely, be rude, and I'll answer anyway, but might throw in something sarcastic to let you know that I don't like you. nothing wrong with that (as long as we don't descend into the welsh meatball territory).

rather than expecting other people to hold your hand, you should just accept the consequences of your actions, and improve your behavior yourself. or not - I'm fine either way.

[6742924845cf1icemann]

As long as we're not elitist about it.

I remember many years ago over at TTLG in the SS2, new forum users often being told to use the search button when asking questions. Often saw that (and also took part in I'll admit :p).

[6742924845e1bchickenhead]

I think we're in need of another split.

"A split from a split where people make fun of System's mod and then Aurora everyone not to bully people and they discuss the ethics and ideals of online communication, harsh criticism, and trolling newbs."

Or something along those lines.

[6742924845f08voodoo47]

ultimately, it's all pointless - as I've said before, I really, really don't see anyone here changing for the sake of someone else. might as well just accept that things are what they are.