Retro handheld emulator consoles

[67468da055ab6sarge945]

My Odin Base just arrived. I will give a review of it after a week or so, unless I forget

[67468da055c9evoodoo47]

oh nice - yeah, go ahead, I'm fairly interested. apart from the active cooling, this does sound like the perfect emulator handheld console - assuming you did not overpay, the price seems to sit fairly high right now (I'm actually considering the Lite for a relative as a moved-into-your-own-house gift, its price should sit right under 200$, it has passive cooling and should still do very good Dreamcast and PS2 emulation).

[67468da055ddevoodoo47]

@sarge945 review now.

[67468da056370sarge945]

My apologies, have been super busy with work so haven't had the most time to play with it.

Here's my experience with it so far:

Ergonomics and Build Quality:

overall the handheld feels pretty decent. The device doesn't wabble and bend like a lot of cheap handheld, it's solidly heavy, and has a very nice screen. The buttons are clicky and have good travel, don't get stuck, etc.

I got the full package including a dock, protective plastic shell, and carrying case. The dock is quite nice, and includes a lot of extra inputs, fast charging etc.

The carrying case is also perfectly acceptable, it's not falling apart at the seams, and doesn't stink with that horrible smell that a lot of cheap carrying cases etc smell of.

The worst aspect is probably the protective shell. It uses a very flimsy hinge mechanism, that I feel could come apart at any time and cause the device to fall out, not making it very protective. Worse, the dock isn't thick enough to accommodate the device with the shell, so you'll have to be constantly taking it out of the shell to charge it (if you're not just using a standard USB C cable, they work totally fine wth the shell, it's just the dock). Because the shell has very cheap plastic that clicks together, I'm pretty likely to break it just by clicking it open and taking the device out too many times. It would likely break after a single drop, but would likely protect the device as well in such a case, so I guess it's technically fit for purpose, but I have to say the protective shell is a huge step down from the rest of the device in terms of build quality and design.

As for ergonomics, the buttons are clicky and feel nice to use. The joysticks are the standard "joycon style" sunk ones. They work but I don't particularly like them. I haven't noticed any drift, but it's not like I've been using this thing nonstop for a year, so I might have to update this after a while if I start to notice drift. That seems to be mostly a Nintendo problem, though, since Nintendo products are usually garbage.

I can't really comment on the dpad. I'm not an expert on dpads. I don't play lots of platformers or dpad heavy games. I know it can't be too bad because it's not a mushy mess like the one on the Xbox 360 controller, but it might not be the most fine-tuned, expert level dpad either.

Performance:

I got the "standard" model, I can't talk about the Pro or Lite. So far I've played dos games, some Nintendo 64 games, and a few other titbits (like Quake). So far everything runs good. I've noticed some slowdown with certain N64 games like Perfect Dark, but I'm not sure if that's a problem with the device or with the emulator accurately recreating the horrible choppy "original" console experience.

Overall though I'm happy with the performance. I know certain games can sometimes run like crap under dosbox on various devices, but in this case all the games i tried - Doom, the lost Vikings and commander keen - all worked perfectly fine.

Software:
This is both the weakest and strongest part of the device.

Strengths: it has a nice custom launcher so you can hide the native android interface quite easily. This is good if you want a nice "handheld console" feeling, while still being able to jump back to the basic android UI easily for maintenance tasks or installing stuff, etc.

They also have software to translate screen regions to controller inputs, for games that don't have controller support. I haven't used it so I can't comment on it.

The weakest part of this device is navigating with the controllers. It doesn't work in most apps and is very inconsistent. It does have a touch screen, so you can put your gross grubby hands all over the screen, but it feels like a step back when doing things like changing android settings.

The strongest part is that it runs RetroArch, which supports it's controller completely. So you can basically rebind everything for most games on a per game basis. Using the Quake core, I was able to play Quake with what is essentially a "modern" dual-stick control scheme. Although this is admittedly still not perfect. Many games obviously still give keyboard or specific controller glyphs, and sometimes RetroArch would have some strange input problems. It also doesn't support the reverse buttons on the device, which I don't use anyway.

I haven't used the device for standard Android gaming because most android gaming is very very much not worth wasting time on, although I'm open to some good suggestions for Android native games to try.

Final Thoughts:
Reasonable battery life (I got 4 or so hours playing Quake), decent build quality and an overall good experience is worth it, if you're willing to wrestle with android settings and RetroArch oddities from time to time. I had to completely set up my controller configs for every game the first time, nothing just worked out of the box. But I consider it worth the price, despite the issues, because they are mostly minor problems and can be solved pretty quickly upfront, then you're free to enjoy whatever game.

It's a pretty good device.

[67468da056511sarge945]

voodoo47 can you recommend some Dreamcast/PS2 games? I can give you a performance review for each of them.

I didn't really grow up with many consoles so I missed most of the "must plays" of each generation. While I don't feel I'm missing much, surely there's some good in there.

[67468da05665evoodoo47]

sounds good - thanks (even the smell test, heh). if you mean games that can really push the console/emulator, then iirc, Shadow of The Colossus on ps2, and Shenmue2 on Dreamcast would be good examples.

[67468da0567f4voodoo47]

this one flew under my radar - the Saturn now has an ultimate plug and play (everything) solution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueLPPKb2fQQ

[67468da0569e5icemann]

Love Game Sack . Very comprehensive show and some good humour. Long videos too.

[67468da056cbeJoin2]

Anyone still primarily gaming on consoles these days is extremely suspect, given there is ZERO observable benefit to consoles from a consumer standpoint. There used to be many. Even the mere fact that PCs in the 90s used to take ten years to boot up while consoles were instant was a big pro. But all the many advantages I could list, it's all redundant now. PC gaming for lyfe m8.

[67468da056eaevoodoo47]

not mentioning the average pc can emulate anything up to (and including) ps3. yeah, consoles were done the moment they switched to the "here's a cut down pc with a streamlined os, make an account and you will own nothing" model as far as I'm concerned.

[67468da0571e8icemann]

Besides some games on the Switch, there is very little in the way of difference between them now. Up to about the PS2 era, there was a very clear difference in the types of games you'd get.

Now it's all the same, and you can emulate most systems up to ps3 level (as Voodoo mentioned), so I really don't see the point in going with modern consoles at all anymore.

Growing up, there WAS a difference. Massive one. PC was RTS, flight sims, strategy, FPS and Western RPGs. Consoles were mainly racing, JRPGs, Puzzle games, 2D and later 3D platformers and survival horrors (ps1 era onward). Now you can get all of them on PC.

Fourth factor is that there's just not that many good games coming out anymore. Just me there? Sure we get the occasional good Metroidvania or RPG, but where we used to get a sea of great games, it's more here and there now.

[67468da0574d0Join2]

Emulation really is the true game changer in going full PC. No true gamer can just abandon the other half of the gaming classics. If I had to decide what's better, PC gaming collective library or consoles, I could not in fairness answer, even with as legendary games as Deus Ex and System Shock 2 on offer. If not for emulation I would sadly still be clinging to all those old machines, discs, cartridges, cables everywhere. Yuck.

Runner up reason is mods and romhacks. Never would have thought back in the 90s I'd be playing improved versions of these already incredible games made by randoms.

[67468da057c79icemann]

Emulation really is the true game changer in going full PC. No true gamer can just abandon the other half of the gaming classics. If I had to decide what's better, PC gaming collective library or consoles, I could not in fairness answer, even with as legendary games as Deus Ex and System Shock 2 on offer. If not for emulation I would sadly still be clinging to all those old machines, discs, cartridges, cables everywhere. Yuck.

Runner up reason is mods and romhacks. Never would have thought back in the 90s I'd be playing improved versions of these already incredible games made by randoms.

Agreed 110%. Speaking up to ps3 era: From Atari to the PS3 there was A LOT of really damn good console games specific to those, that I will forever love. And on PC end, there was absolutely amazing games there at those points in time that never went to consoles, and would have royally sucked if they had even attempted it. Imagine Zork (as in text only Zork) attempted on a console. No. Full Throttle? Hell no. And on the flip-side Super Mario World, Rock Band (best house party game ever imo), or Goldeneye on PC. No. But then you add in emulation and the console end mostly works fine, with a controller.

Romhacks wise - Earliest I recall that made emulation a complete must-have on PC was for translation romhacks. And that was very late 90's. First one I remember trying out was the Seiken Densetsu 3 (aka Sword of Mana) English translation, which to me was essentially Secret of Mana 2 (a SNES JRPG I was obsessed with back then). Not really played many of the more traditional romhacks which add/change levels or completely change the gameplay. Translation patches for me for the most part. Via that got to play MANY games that even to this day never got official English releases.

And then you have save states, which was a complete game changer. I've had PC upgrades with the specific aim in getting better emulation of specific systems. The PS2 and PS3 emulators in particular used to have very high PC spec requirements.

3rd being a combination of game preservation even on the PC-end via Dosbox (which is the only possible way to play some old PC games nowadays, unless you have an old PC lying around), and being able to play systems and games that you otherwise would have zero chance of ever being able to experience. Even Flash games, which I used to spend countless hours playing, only work on emulators now.

[67468da057edbfox]

Atari 7800 was my first and a modded PS1 the last console that I truely rocked. After that, I only ever possessed a XBox 360 which I mainly bought for Red Dead Redemption. I did play and enjoy some more games on it but never felt much passion for any console after PS1.

[67468da05827bJoin2]

PS1 easily has the greatest library of all the consoles. Easily. Absolutely no competition. No comment from anyone that hasn't adequately explored it please.

[67468da05844cicemann]

Now there's a loaded sentence . I absolutely adored the PS1, and played the heck out of it back on release, but only for specific types of games. For example for the SNES style 2D and 2.5D JRPGs, 2D platformers, Survival horrors and racing games sure. Rest no.

PS2 had everything. Whatever you liked it had it, and lots of it. PS3 on the other hand, had good games sure, and the PS Home was great, but on the overall whole. No. Does not hold a candle. After that, don't even bother. Go to PC, do not pass go, do not collect $200, from then on.

[67468da05858dfox]

I guess the PS2 was a decent successor but it came out at a time when other things in my life took over and money was constantly running low. I was fine without it.

[67468da0586d6icemann]

Fair enough. Just like the PS1, it was very easy to get mod chipped. Had several DVD holder bags worth of burned games at one point. Video stores back then had good libraries of games for very cheap prices, and updated their games often.

[67468da059039sarge945]

PS1 easily has the greatest library of all the consoles. Easily. Absolutely no competition. No comment from anyone that hasn't adequately explored it please.

Can I comment to ask for recommendations?

[67468da059dc8Join2]

I will exclude PC ports as this is a PC-centric site and mods often make them redundant. I will also only focus on singleplayer quality. Lastly, I will exclude games with awkward control by modern standards. The only exception here will be Tomb Raider as they're simply undeniable must-plays. Adapt.

-Castlevania: SotN is an absolute classic, everyone should have already played this. If not you live under a gaming rock.
-Tomb Raider 1 & 2 are a masterclass in nuanced early 3D design. 
-Final Fantasy forget what you may have heard or possibly presume based on marketing material. These are still legendary games. And hardcore romhacks exist to make them even more legendary on replays.
-Resident Evil is still solid, and also worth pointing out that it is cinematic gaming actually done right, imagine that! Don't bother with the remakes they're all inferior.
-Silent Hill is a psychological horror trip like no other, at least twice as scary as System Shock 2. The gameplay is not the best (though competent nonetheless), but the cumulative experience is quite something. Much better than all the sequels.
-Brahma Force is like a middle ground between Doom and System Shock, well worth checking out if you're an FPS enthusiast. Disclaimer: No mouselook/stick support. Old school, baby. Despite this it controls like a dream (e.g like Doom did). Here's footage of me playing it
-Parasite Eve 1 & 2 are simply charming, engaging games. Further proving that Squaresoft were the quality leaders of the Japanese console market in the 90s. Too bad that was soon to change.
-Spyro The Dragon (original only) is absolutely full of charm and great design (particularly the large-scale level design to be conquered), but it's kiddie-themed. If you go for it nonetheless you will be rewarded with an awesome game.

It's utter horseshit to exclude so many great games, but these rules exist to serve you a solid introduction to the majesty of PS1 with game design most palatable to modern convention.

[67468da05ab86icemann]

I would add to that list:

* Alundra - A better top down action RPG than even Zelda a Link to the Past IMO. Very nice 2.5D graphics.
* Azure Dreams - Total hidden gem on the system. Mix of JRPG, Pokemon style creature raising, City Builder and romance sim. One of a kind game.
* Final Fantasy Tactics - One of the best, if not the best strategy RPGs of all time.
* Grandia - Great JRPG. Good music.
* Gran Turismo 1 & 2 - Outstanding racing RPG games.
* Syphon Filter 1-3 - Great Metal Gear Solid inspired games.
* Vagrant Story - Great Square (at their prime) action RPG. Gothic setting and good game mechanics.
* Wild Arms - JRPG with a cowboy western angle. Damn fine cinematics.
* Xenogears - Mix of Mech and on foot turn based RPG. Great story.

[67468da05af9bJoin2]

* Final Fantasy Tactics - One of the best, if not the best strategy RPGs of all time.

Great game, but so goddamn slow. There is a modern SRPG/Turn-based Tactics game that outclasses it imo, and that is heavily modded XCOM2 WOTC. FFTactics doesn't really do anything for me any more as great as it is, it's the kind of genre where you only need one game. This might change for me if some smart romhacker makes a big improvement to the game. Actually, there is a website specifically for hacking it, maybe I should take a closer look: https://ffhacktics.com/
However I have interacted with a romhacker of the game before whom mentioned he couldn't up the speed in particular. Not sure if that is a skill issue or actual technical roadblock however.

* Syphon Filter 1-3 - Great Metal Gear Solid inspired games.

Good, but not good enough to recommend in the initial line-up due to old school control, lock-on aiming-based combat (even if nuanced and executed well). I would recommend them (excluding 3, it kinda sucked), but as like the 40th PS1 game to try.
Also, MGS-inspired? It came out half a year after MGS, so would have had a lot of development overlap.

* Vagrant Story - Great Square (at their prime) action RPG. Gothic setting and good game mechanics.

I was debating listing this, but excluded it. 15th game to try. Still, good agreeable pick for sure.

* Wild Arms - JRPG with a cowboy western angle. Damn fine cinematics.

This one I need to try.

* Xenogears - Mix of Mech and on foot turn based RPG. Great story.

Awful gameplay though and the second disc is largely a visual novel. Guess they realized their game was shit and gave up all false pretenses. Not worthy of Squaresoft's best of lineup. Great soundtrack though.

* Gran Turismo 1 & 2 - Outstanding racing RPG games.

A lot of genres declined in the next generation with the PS2 (and further still with the generation after that), but racing imo is not one of them. Still, I never got into GT in particular so that may not be the case here. I view sports & racing sim as two genres that only got better. They're realism-oriented, so kinda hard to fuck up just copying reality with a thin layer of game design on top.

[67468da05b138voodoo47]

almost forgot to mention - if you are into emulation but not liking it on the pc for some reason (controls, portability, whatever), then 60$ handhelds are starting to run Dreamcast/PSP games pretty well. not a bad deal.

[67468da05b2a2Join2]

I see no point in handhelds these days either. They were great as a kid for long car rides, boring-ass family gatherings, playing in my bed at night when I was supposed to be sleeping for school the next day etc. None of that is relevant/an option anymore.
Worst case scenario (e.g long plane flight) I will emulate some old turn-based game on my phone. Screw going on the mobile gaming stores. I may have missed a rare gem that way but a man must have principles.

I am curious, why do you game on handhelds @voodoo47? Lots of travelling for work?