[Obsolete] SS2 Community Patch (SCP) Beta 1

[6745548c17741MilkeyWilkey]

but beakers IS finite, so whats the problem?

[6745548c17953voodoo47]

that you can fill up 100 beakers at one pile, yet you will consume it completely in one go when healing from it.

[6745548c17c19RocketMan]

Well.. I think the point was that there aren't 100 beakers.  Ammo = beakers, not worms.

[6745548c17d2fYankee Clipper]

Yes, but the other point is that it is an anomaly that a pile of worms is an infinite resource when you are harvesting worms for ammo but disappears completely after only one use for health. It is the logical inconsistency that is being commented on.

[6745548c17e77MilkeyWilkey]

Not sure about mods but in original game it's fine. the number of beakers you can find is pretty limited so you will never be able to infinitely restock you worm amount. once you filling up  you beakers you can freely heal yourself once, but if you have no beakers - well it's a point where you need to do  greate descision - to heal or not to heal.

but another thing - why not making 'em stay forever? I mean, surgical units is rare but is infinite cheap healing resourse. worms is also rare and to use them you need an aug so why not making healing from them infinite? because I can't see a point in aug that can be useful only several times in the whole game

[6745548c17fe3voodoo47]

but the (surgical units) cost something. it may be just a few nanites, but they do. making the piles infinite for healing would present a costless limitless instant heal, and that is not a good idea. and as we can't bring nanites into the equation (how?), we need the player to pay with something else - his time. hence, the idea to make them regenerate after a couple of minutes. can you wait near the pile to heal fully? sure, but you are wasting your time, and also risking a (un)friendly hybrid coming along and bashing on your head.

I think I'll check whether this could be implemented via gamesys/dml, if doable, then I'll probably make it into a SCP minimod, just like the stasis field generator stasis trap.

[6745548c18117Yankee Clipper]

Or, get rid of the free standing worm piles completely. Have the worms be drops from the grub-releasing eggs. Make the quantity of worms available in the eggs roughly equivalent to the storage capacity of the beakers in the game, or perhaps a bit more. Having those passive worm pile laying around never made sense anyway. If they are found in eggs that release the grubs, it makes sense and also has the benefit of getting rid of those rather silly looking worm piles.

[6745548c184a8Milkey Wilkey]

but the (surgical units) cost something. it may be just a few nanites, but they do. making the piles infinite for healing would present a costless limitless instant heal, and that is not a good idea. and as we can't bring nanites into the equation (how?), we need the player to pay with something else - his time. hence, the idea to make them regenerate after a couple of minutes. can you wait near the pile to heal fully? sure, but you are wasting your time, and also risking a (un)friendly hybrid coming along and bashing on your head.

I think I'll check whether this could be implemented via gamesys/dml, if doable, then I'll probably make it into a SCP minimod, just like the stasis field generator stasis trap.

it is not free. Iirk you need to spend some points to wear worm-healing aug. And you need to find one of it first, which located very late in the game

[6745548c185a5voodoo47]

that is still way too cheap.

[6745548c18881Olfred]

Ah, yes. I totally forgot about the beakers being what was limiting you. I should really get to play the game again in some different variatons. Haven't used exotic weapons since ages, the only thing I remember is that they kinda sucked and I were always low on ammo because it just vaporized so quickly.

What about making the worm piles be finite in themselfes.
For example, each wormpile will have a counter on it (let's just say it's the number of worms). Every time you fill your beaker or your health the number get's decreased until fully depleted.
So just for making it clear, let's assume there is a count of 100 on it. Now a player heals himself for 30 hp so it get's decreased to 70. Now he fills up some beakers for 20 ammo, now there is a pile with a count of 50.
You could even make the model scale down on every use (or use different models if that is possible) to visualize to the player that the amount (of worms) is decreasing on every use.

And to be honest, adding more beakers is not such a great idea. I would prefer to increase the numbers of ammo a beaker can hold.

[6745548c1898dYankee Clipper]

Adding beakers to a replicator would make sense. It is almost the only thing you can't buy from a replicator. But, duplication works on the worm filled beakers, so psi users can get unlimited worm ammo. Stick the beakers in a replicator and non psi users can get unlimited worm ammo just like they can with all other ammo.

[6745548c18cbdZylonBane]

You could even make the model scale down on every use (or use different models if that is possible) to visualize to the player that the amount (of worms) is decreasing on every use.

Or, y'know, just use the health bar.

[6745548c18ebdOlfred]

Or, y'know, just use the health bar.

But I like it awesome.

[6745548c18f9avoodoo47]

in Shocked, you pay for awesome with your soul.

[6745548c191acRocketMan]

Directly from Straylight's notes:

Definitely have plenty of worms now.  I had over 200 of them when I went
after the Brain.

This is after he added 50% to the stack count of beakers.  So before he made the change he had about 140 worms by the brain room.  After the brain room, worms are useless so, assuming he used even half of that 140 in the chamber, that's 70 worms too many.  This has nothing to do with the piles but the availability of beakers. 

Putting beakers in vending machines isn't a cheat per se because you pay for that with nanites.  Similarly you pay for duplication with psi hypos, which, if bought, are paid for in... nanites.  If a player felt there wasn't enough ammo in the game, having that fallback would be reasonable as it enables to the player to do something about it (at a cost).  Upping the default stack count of beakers or putting more of them in the game basically forces a penalty on players who are patient and explore a lot because they will end up with way too many worms.  Saying that the exotics are under-utilized isn't really an argument because if somebody decides to use exotics in the first place, they've already decided for themselves that the skill is of value to them, before they ever get to the point where they have harvested enough worms to be limited by their scarcity.  And those with experience will be better able to find all the beakers so they won't be deterred from investing in the exotics class because they know that worms are not in short supply if you look for them.

To me, the bigger issue, as Voodoo pointed out, is consistency of behaviour and preventing a healing exploit.

[6745548c192a0ZylonBane]

I'd guess that beakers aren't available from vending machines as a deliberate differentiation from standard weapons.

[6745548c193b1RocketMan]

Yeah... and beakers seem like kind of an odd commodity to find in a vending machine.  But then, if you think about it, so is everything else.

[6745548c19685System Shocked]

I'm pretty sure he was talking about freezing (as in pausing) the animation, in order to make them look less alive.

Exactly, as in the worms being temporarily stunned, for a period of time.

[6745548c19798mike]

how much will we have to sleep for beta 2? approx?

[6745548c1988cZylonBane]

Banana.

[6745548c19b48Salk]

how much will we have to sleep for beta 2? approx?

Let's see... what's the longest one man can be in cryogenic sleep? 

[6745548c19c37plasma discharge]

beta 2 is now two months late. what are we paying you guys for again?

[6745548c19d37voodoo47]

a beta is never late - it arrives precisely when it's meant to.

[6745548c19e1dplasma discharge]

at least give us a comforting lie, that its a few days off, like you did in march