SCP Beta 4 Issue Reporting

[6685903618b9avoodoo47]

the only thing that would somewhat improve MP stability is reducing the number of bulkheads (and by extension, loading zones) by merging some levels - for example, eng1 with eng2. the new engine should be able to handle the larger levels, but this operation is not exactly trivial.

[6685903618d0eZylonBane]

And doing so would break the automaps.

[6685903618efbBuff Skeleton]

I tried merging Eng1 and Eng2 once as a test, and they actually managed to fit together well enough without major issues -- but the automap and the QBRMs made it not worth doing in the long run.

I had an idea for the QBRMs (respawning in some kind of intermediary cyberspace room with two teleporters, one for each machine), but never got past proof-of-concept stage. You'd also have to do something like add a psi wall in front of the tele leading to Eng2 so you can't just skip all of Eng1 and warp to Command Control when you die. And two machines would open up a bit of an exploit for quickly navigating the deck if you died in Eng2 and wanted to jump back to the coolant tubes. Not to mention the immersion-breaking.

Still odd that Eng2 is so particularly crashy in MP when trying to access it from Eng1. We often have to repeat attempts to get there two or three times before it finally works. I thought it may have been the BOTM cutscene stuff, but even after removing that and all the geo, it's still been crashy. I found that the cargo hold's shuttle bay opening forcefield is blocked by a giant, invisible Sci Med Door, which seems... hacky, at best. So I swapped that for an invisible unbreakable window instead, though I'm not sure if that's made any impact (we haven't re-tested Eng1 -> Eng2 yet).

[668590361925csarge945]

If there are multiple QBRMs in any given level, why not just allow the player to press the button on any of the QBRMs and it becomes the "active" one when they die, even if it's already been activated before. Immersive and requires no special geometry or anything, and there is no way to really cheat the system without taking some risks.

Merging the maps could be cool I guess, not just for MP Stability, but also because less loading zones is more immersive. But it seems like a lot of (unnecessary) work for a very small gain. If your theory about serialisation errors is correct, wouldn't having larger maps potentially be worse?

Would this likely ruin fingerprinting of any potential dml mods in the future if they rely on split maps?

Seems like a lot of effort for something which is likely to make the game less compatible and more prone to errors, but I guess the actual developers would know more about this.

That said, I think someone should definitely look into what makes eng2 so crashy.

[668590361939aZylonBane]

That's an interesting idea. Not that I think it would really help much with MP stability. But it would be an interesting mod for people who like to get into a new game quickly, by merging all the career decision choices directly into earth.mis, and omitting all the cutscenes and training year debriefs.

[668590361957cBuff Skeleton]

Well, the first load from Eng1 to Eng2 tonight crashed on my end as usual, but after that, no issues whatsoever while fighting in Eng2 or going back to Eng1 or returning to Eng2 again. That's a first!

All I really did was swap out that Sci Med Door, touch up some of the geo and optimize, and make sure every single door was aligned to the grid by manually punching in coordinates. That was a pain in the ass, but I don't get any more "totally coplanar... ick" warnings, and the number of removed degenerate polys is down from like 60 or so to less than 10.

I do wonder if Eng2's proclivity toward load-crashing in MP comes from one of the more unique aspects of Eng2, like the card slot for 45m/dex or the head that gets chucked by the hybrid. Maybe one of the objects in use for these sequences isn't as stable online. But that's a wild guess.

Anyway, don't want to drive too far off topic in this thread since we're talking about SCP bugs here, not a related mod based on it. But if there are any tweaks that seem to have a marked stability improvement for MP, I'll mention it if it's useful for SCP as well.

[66859036198b2sarge945]

That's an interesting idea. Not that I think it would really help much with MP stability. But it would be an interesting mod for people who like to get into a new game quickly, by merging all the career decision choices directly into earth.mis, and omitting all the cutscenes and training year debriefs.

Yeah skipping cutscenes is always good, as long as it's optional. I wish we could skip the many cutscene in engineering as well, since most of us have seen it 150 times.

Remember, this mod is likely to be used by first timers looking for a "bug free but mostly vanilla" experience, so it might not be a good idea to just omit the cutscenes unless it's an optional thing.

Lastly, for all the hate Deus Ex Revision gets, I am surprised nobody complains about the abomination that is Cinematic Mod for Half-Life 2

[6685903619d82ZylonBane]

Yeah skipping cutscenes is always good, as long as it's optional.

Skipping cutscenes is already optional. You just click the mouse.

Remember, this mod is likely to be used by first timers looking for a "bug free but mostly vanilla" experience, so it might not be a good idea to just omit the cutscenes unless it's an optional thing.

Read more carefully.

[6685903619f5bstraight bozo]

I don't know if this is something that's easy (or possible) to fix, or if this is even the right spot to put it, but SCP still doesn't fix the minor annoyance also present in the vanilla game where picking up a speed hypo (from a crate, body, or the ground) makes a currently running speed hypo wear off.  This doesn't apply to the duplication psi power in either vanilla or SCP,  I've made a little video to demonstrate it, but after viewing it, my comp evidently shat itself and only bothered to record it at 3 FPS...

although this isn't super applicable in many situations where you'd want to dash past something and most people don't bind their scroll wheels to frob anyway, so searching bodies with a speed hypo running isnt super easy (the only situation where this bug could be lethal that i can think of is if you try to dash past the robots in hydro1 and pick up the speed hypo on the way out and get munched in-between turnbull and the second maintenance bot with no extra speed).  i wouldn't regard it as a super high priority bug

[668590361a076voodoo47]

nice little bug. log it into the sheet.

[668590361a161ZylonBane]

Even more strangely, the bug only manifests when you already have one or more speed hypos in your inventory.

[668590361a313Nameless Voice]

Regarding combining the maps and QBRMs, also bear in mind that it would significantly change their behaviour, because a QBRM that you activated in one part of the level would resurrect you in the other part, even though before combining you would die permanently in the second part until you also activated the QBRM there.

[668590361a493JML]

Or it would just res you at the nearest activated QBRM.

[668590361a5c3ZylonBane]

That's what he already said. The nearest QBR would be over in the other map segment. However, a custom script could determine which QBR is the closest one, and let the player die if the closest one isn't turned on.

Anyway it's a moot point because AFAIK SS2 Dark doesn't support multiple map pages per mission.

[668590361a922JML]

That's what he already said. The nearest QBR would be over in the other map segment. [...]

Upon re-reading NO's comment I realize that is most likely what he meant. Yeah.

[668590361aa45sarge945]

Question: What happens if you need to hack the replicator to get the sympathetic resonator, you have no hacking skill, no PSI abilities, and you wasted your ICE picks on crap?

[668590361ab34ZylonBane]

And if you waste the cybermods that SHODAN sends you specifically to buy hacking if you don't already have it? In that case you get what you deserve.

[668590361ac11voodoo47]

"you go back to playing call of duty."

[668590361aceesarge945]

Right. I assumed it was like the research in hydro where she would send it to you regardless so I thought it might be an issue

[668590361add5nixosgl7]

not sure if it belongs here but being able to skip the many cutscene in eng, the shodan scene in ops1, would be cool

[668590361aec2ZylonBane]

Anyone have any ideas what possible purpose is served by the five-second delay on the Command deck main elevator button? That's been irritating me for years.

[668590361afe1voodoo47]

you mean the bridge elevator at command2? uhh, dramatic effect?

yeah, cutting it down to 2 or 3 sounds like a good idea - I've seen people go huh, is something going to happen or what, ah ok more than a handful of times.

[668590361b0f0ZylonBane]

That is indeed the elevator I'm talking about.

I used to assume the delay was so the player couldn't run in there and hit the button to hide from pursuing enemies, but by the time you get the card for that elevator you've pretty well cleared out the entire deck.

[668590361b220ZylonBane]

Here's another question for the collective. In vanilla SS2 the fourth and final OS Upgrade station is located on the Rickenbacker bridge. This means any upgrade you get here will mostly only be used in the Body of the Many. It also means a very long delay between OS upgrades, since the third station is located on Recreation. I'd like to move this upgrade station to near the beginning of the Rickenbacker. What do you think? Too much of a gameplay change?