SCP Beta 4 Issue Reporting

[67433d290fe8dZylonBane]

Giving them the MFD is no different than giving them an info terminal.

You can't access info terminals without the cyber interface (which includes the MFD panel).

[67433d29101e2RocketMan]

Ehhh...  ok but I just thought of something.  Don't you have a pseudo cyber interface in the training booths?  So can you not access the MFD (or the info terminals) so long as you're in training?

If a cyber interface is the only answer to the problem then the existing training on Earth seems the best place to grant the player this ability inconspicuously since they are already told they're being given a virtual interface.

[67433d29102deZylonBane]

What ability are you talking about?

[67433d291040fRocketMan]

You originally proposed, "just give the player their cyber interface".  I'm proposing that you do this on Earth during training, since they are already given an excuse, with original voice assets, that they can use a virtual cyber interface at that time.  This way you don't have to explain why they have a cyber interface before their surgery. 

[67433d2910684sarge945]

Why not put an info terminal next to the mission selection, containing descriptions of the 3 choices (for stats, for psi powers etc), and make it not appear when newbie is 0.

Should be a mostly straightforward solution not requiring any cyberlink booths, dialogues, or whatever

Actually, are info terminals usable at all without a cyber interface? I guess I see the issue...

[67433d2910926ZylonBane]

You originally proposed, "just give the player their cyber interface".  I'm proposing that you do this on Earth during training, since they are already given an excuse, with original voice assets, that they can use a virtual cyber interface at that time.  This way you don't have to explain why they have a cyber interface before their surgery. 

Are you suggesting that players be made to retain their virtual cyber interface, that is explicitly stated to be simulated, not real, after they exit the training cyberspace and return to the real world?

[67433d2910bddVegoraptor]

so long as you're in training

No, I'm pretty sure he is suggesting that they could be added to the cyberspace sections. The question here is where to put which one.

[67433d2910d16OName]

The "A-Grade" implant idea sounds like an elegant solution. I can see a way for the player to be notified about it without adding any voice files or anything - a line like the ones in the SHODAN conversation with the ocular stream override, saying something like [A-Grade cybernetic interface MFD online]

[67433d291103eRocketMan]

Are you suggesting that players be made to retain their virtual cyber interface, that is explicitly stated to be simulated, not real, after they exit the training cyberspace and return to the real world?

Not retain, just borrow.  The player is told they're getting a virtual interface and they never need to know otherwise.  You simply give them a real interface with whatever bells and whistles they need to read the MFD help text (I didn't even know you couldn't do this TBH).  Then when they leave the booth you take everything away.  The player should be totally unaware of this change, except that they can now read the MFD text.

To simplify, whatever needs to be done would be done in the training booth, whether it's an info terminal or whatever.  Because the training booth gives you plausible deniability to grant the player extra stuff without an explanation.

[67433d2911157ZylonBane]

I really have no idea what you're talking about. There is no "extra stuff" to read info terminals or access the character MFD. It's all just automatically there when the cyber interface is enabled.

[67433d29113a4RocketMan]

I think everybody else in the room knows exactly what I'm talking about.  Anyway, you're a smart guy.  I'm sure you can connect the dots.

EDIT:  Let me try one more time.

You claim there is a problem that warrants resolution:  Namely that the player doesn't have the proper education they need to make character build choices on Station.mis.  The root-cause is that they can't read about the stats since they don't have a cyber interface and therefore, an MFD.  Your preferred solution is to give them an MFD by creating a dummy training module on Station.mis.

Am I correct so far?

My proposal is to use the existing training segments on Earth.mis, to educate the player about their stat upgrades.  I suggest either adding an info terminal or giving them a fully authentic cyber interface only for the duration of training.  You would take it away from them when they leave the booth.  This is consistent with what the P.A. system tells you when you enter the cyber booths so there's no reason the player would be suspicious.

They only hang-up in my mind is, you are saying you either have a cyber interface or you don't.  According to you there are no flavours of cyber interface or "extra stuff" to add to it.  Fine.  But if that's true why is there a problem in the first place?  If the "virtual" interface already given to the player on Earth is already indistinguishable from a real one, then why can't they open it up and read their MFD?  This is a point of confusion but not necessary to answer because one way or the other, you have the special technical knowledge to know what you're talking about and you can give the player whatever interface fixes the problem in the Earth training modules. 

This is merely my suggestion but I offer it to avoid derailing the game in a new direction on Station.mis, which is outside the scope of the SCP mandate.

[67433d2911679RoSoDude]

From what I've seen watching Let's Plays, I doubt that the group of players who feel like they haven't been given enough information about the stats and skills in the tutorial will intersect much at all with the group of players who know to open up Use mode and click on the little MFD button in the corner to mouse over and read about them.

Even though it's a common complaint about the character building sequence, Irrational clearly liked the idea of people choosing careers primarily based on what sounded cool or interesting (both the mission briefing and the skill names), so I'd leave their intention intact rather than introduce a user interface feature that's unlikely to see much use while also cutting against the basic story elements.

[67433d2911796sarge945]

It could be argued that people can figure out what the skills are for.

I DO think the on-screen text for choosing OSA career paths should be updated, though, from complex ability names to a more useful description (like going from Kinetic Redirection to Psi Pull) to help people know what they are actually choosing.

[67433d2912042RocketMan]

Unless this is someone's first rodeo, I imagine the point is moot because they will learn pretty quickly during gameplay what does what.  I would also guess that normal is the most popular difficulty level for first timers (do people play on easy?) so they should have enough HP to survive long enough to spend their first CMs on upgrades they actually need, assuming they didn't understand what they were doing during career selection. 

All the same, it's probably fairly harmless to make this info passively available during training.  After all that's kind of what training is for - getting to know the traits and what they've good for.

[67433d2912af7Briareos H]

Even though it's a common complaint about the character building sequence, Irrational clearly liked the idea of people choosing careers primarily based on what sounded cool or interesting (both the mission briefing and the skill names), so I'd leave their intention intact rather than introduce a user interface feature that's unlikely to see much use while also cutting against the basic story elements.

I was hoping someone else than me held this opinion. Not knowing is fine, it was part of the charm for me. But as long as I'm not feeling like I have to pause and read through the doc, then adding a passive description screen somewhere is fine.

[67433d2913230ZylonBane]

Even though it's a common complaint about the character building sequence, Irrational clearly liked the idea of people choosing careers primarily based on what sounded cool or interesting

It's easy to forget that back when SS2 came out, it was still somewhat expected that people would read the manual that came with the game. SS2's manual explicitly describes what every character stat does, so Irrational's intent seems to have been that players would know exactly what their choices meant.

Today, people playing SS2 for the first time won't even have a physical manual available. At best they'll have a PDF of the manual buried somewhere in the game's files. Furthermore, modern gamers are conditioned by modern games to be fed all the information they need at the moment they need it. So they're working under a triple handicap compared to us old-timers.

But if that's true why is there a problem in the first place?  If the "virtual" interface already given to the player on Earth is already indistinguishable from a real one, then why can't they open it up and read their MFD?

Because the character MFD is mentioned exactly once in the Earth level, at the very beginning of Basic Training, and the only thing said about it is, "This displays your strengths in various areas." By the time players reach the station, they'll have had literally everything else from the basic and advanced training areas shoved down their throats, so the probability that they've memorized all the character stats and their gameplay effects is practically zero.

Anyway, another possibility would be to have a panel off to the side that displays the description for each stat that the player must choose from in that phase of the training. It could even be hidden by the adaptive training system (when the player skips all training on Earth).

[67433d29133dcvoodoo47]

ok, I like that. could work nicely.

[67433d29134c6RoSoDude]

This is a much better approach, I think.

[67433d2913625ZylonBane]

I'm kind of iffy on this solution though because the vanilla game never uses textures to present detailed information. All significant in-world text is limited to simple labels, while detailed information is presented via the HUD.

Well, I guess it's not that big of a deal. The training levels are full of things that never appear in the main game.

[67433d2913797ZylonBane]

So there's this hallway in the main Rec deck crew quarters where this scripted sequence happens:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzW_9KAOEpw
This has always seemed weird to me, because those windows break for no apparent reason. It's like Irrational had something that made sense planned, but never got around to finishing it.

In a game that's all about immersion, self-breaking windows is pretty un-immersive. I'm tempted to disable this if I can't think of some way to explain why they're breaking.

[67433d2913ea0voodoo47]

they were trying to spice up the hybrid attack, most likely. wouldn't remove it completely - lets maybe swap the window models for the cracked ones and leave it alone, if not enough, add an explode-a-pipe or two?

[67433d2913fecZylonBane]

Spontaneously cracking windows has exactly the same problem as spontaneously breaking windows. Nothing is obviously happening that would cause them to crack.

My best guess is that this was originally planned to trigger when the player was walking around below. The windows would break and hybrids would start shooting at the player from above. But... (testing in DromEd)... shotgun hybrids standing in those windows, with clear sight of the player, won't shoot at you. The height/angle between the two floors is probably higher than their gun settings allow. So maybe they tried to half-ass salvage the setup by moving the triggers into the upper floor?

[67433d2914104voodoo47]

what I meant is lets maybe use the cracked model for the windows that are about to break, an already cracked window (somehow) shattering is (a bit) better.

and yes, shooty AIs have all sorts of problems if placed too high.

[67433d291424bZylonBane]

Playing around with the mission posting screens on the space station, trying to make them look less like posters slapped on the wall.

A bit of a change, but I kind of like it.