SCP Beta 4 Issue Reporting

[6743b61621a97ZylonBane]

Ohhh man you've got a lot to learn.

Okay, either you don't know what the expression "there's no helping them" means, or you're being obtusely literal about it, in which case I'll rephrase as: the amount of effort required to help them is significantly in excess of the effort a reasonable person would be willing to put forth.

[6743b61621e6bRocketMan]

That's not what I meant.  I think Sarge expressed the sentiment well enough that the vast majority of people (perhaps a slightly smaller amount if they're playing SS2) aren't going to dig through the release notes, so if you're making another discretionary change that isn't a bug, the first time people are going to find out about it is when they bump into it during gameplay.

But more broadly, assuming that people will do what you, the author/designer/programmer would do, is a recipe for disaster.

[6743b616223a7sarge945]

If someone downloads and installs a mod without even reading what the mod does, there's no helping them.

That's an extremely naive understanding of the problem. There's a stark difference between "This gameplay overhaul mod looks good, I'm gonna try it out" and "I must read through and remember every change made to PSI in this insanely large mod with thousands of changes".

There's no helping people who blindly install mods willy-nilly, but there are plenty of people who install mods based on the general idea of the mod or the high level feature set. How many people do you think install SECMOD without reading through it's entire change list? Or SCP? Or any other sufficiently large mod with a multi-page change list? Do you think most SCP users even know what it fixes specifically, other than "it's a fan patch for the game that fixes stuff"? Even if someone does read the entire change list, having a reference in front of you to remind you of various changes as part of an overall big picture is a good idea, especially since the MFD is not available during career selection, since it can be easy to forget a rather small change like "added 1s to duration of Psycho-Reflective Screen" amongst possibly hundreds of other, much larger changes.

I'm sure nobody, no matter how diligent, can list off all of the psi changes in SCP, SECMOD, or RSD from memory, let alone the other changes to stats or skills. Having an accessible reference helps.

[6743b61622546sarge945]

There's an oversight in the original game to do with organ drops.

Some creatures (such as Hybrids) have a guaranteed organ drop at some point in the game. The first Hybrid in medsci1 is guaranteed to have one, for instance.

However Monkeys, Midwives and Psi Reavers do not have a guaranteed organ drop.

This seems like an oversight in the original game, which can make it quite difficult to get a midwife drop especially, sometimes taking until Rec to find one, which is annoying. Would adding in a guaranteed drop for the missing creature types make sense for the scope of SCP?

[6743b61622738voodoo47]

only midwives and monkeys don't have a guaranteed organ drop (a reaver projection will always flinder an organ upon true death, no idea what you are talking about there, if you meant rumblers then the very first one has it). not an issue with the monkeys as they are plentiful, but I have seen a LP where the player just did not get a midwife organ, ever.

almost sure this has been discussed at some point, but right now this is vanilla, so we decided to leave it alone, it seems.

[6743b61622bc1sarge945]

(a reaver projection will always flinder an organ upon true death, no idea what you are talking about there, if you meant rumblers then the very first one has it)

I couldn't remember exactly which ones had it or not, so I was basing it off this

-Added a guaranteed Monkey Brain drop to Hydroponics B
-Added a guaranteed Midwife Organ drop to Ops B
-Psi Reavers are now always guaranteed to drop researchable organs
    -NOTE: there is already 1 guaranteed drop each for Hybrid, Arachnid and Rumbler organs

[6743b616231baZylonBane]

Okay, I need a German speaker to take a few  minutes to confirm the text below is correct and do some light translation. Most of this text is lifted directly from the official German translation, but some entries have had additional text added. The bolded text needs added or verified. The Marine/Navy/OSA headers are just for reference and don't need translating.

The result will, ideally, be a German version of this:

Including this with SCP will hopefully serve as an example for other localizations.


UNN CAREER ADVISOR

Marines - Year 1
WENDIGKEIT
Bestimmt Ihr Bewegungstempo und reduziert Schäden beim Stürzen und durch den Rückstoß von Waffen.

AUSDAUER
Bestimmt Ihr Maximum an Trefferpunkten und Ihre Widerstandsfähigkeit gegen Strahlung und Gifte.

STÄRKE
Bestimmt Ihre Inventarkapazität, und den Schaden, den Sie Gegnern im Nahkampf zufügen.


Marines - Year 2
WAFFENTRAINING
Dieses Fähigkeit steigert die Wirkung konventioneller, schwerer, oder strahl Waffen.
WEAPONS TRAINING
Increases the amount of damage you inflict with Standard, Heavy, or Energy weapons.

DER CYBER-WERT
Steigert Ihre Chancen beim Hacken, Reparieren und Modifizieren, und die Zahl der gefährlichen Abwehrknoten sinkt.
Improves your chances of successfully using the Hack, Repair, and Modify skills, and also lessens the number of dangerous nodes when using those skills.


Marines - Year 3
REPARATURFÄHIGKEIT
Bestimmt Ihre Erfolgschance beim Reparieren von Waffen oder Computersystemen.

MODIFIZIERUNGSFÄHIGKEIT
Bestimmt Ihre Erfolgschance beim Verbessern von Waffen.

WARTUNGSFÄHIGKEIT
Bestimmt, wie sehr Sie den jetzigen Zustand einer Waffe optimieren können. Sie benötigen dazu ein Wartungswerkzeug.


Navy - Year 1
MODIFIZIERUNGSFÄHIGKEIT
Bestimmt Ihre Erfolgschance beim Verbessern von Waffen.

REPARATURFÄHIGKEIT
Bestimmt Ihre Erfolgschance beim Reparieren von Waffen oder Computersystemen.

HACK-FÄHIGKEIT
Bestimmt Ihre Chance, sich in einen Computer einzuhacken.


Navy - Year 2
KONVENTIONELLER WAFFEN
Steigert die Wirkung konventioneller Waffen.

WARTUNGSFÄHIGKEIT
Bestimmt, wie sehr Sie den jetzigen Zustand einer Waffe optimieren können.
Determines how much you can improve the condition of a weapon or turret, and the charge powered items can hold.

DER CYBER-WERT
Steigert Ihre Chancen beim Hacken, Reparieren und Modifizieren, und die Zahl der gefährlichen Abwehrknoten sinkt.
Improves your chances of successfully using the Hack, Repair, and Modify skills, and also lessens the number of dangerous nodes when using those skills.


Navy - Year 3
WENDIGKEIT
Bestimmt Ihr Bewegungstempo und reduziert Schäden beim Stürzen und durch den Rückstoß von Waffen.

AUSDAUER
Bestimmt Ihr Maximum an Trefferpunkten und Ihre Widerstandsfähigkeit gegen Strahlung und Gifte.

FORSCHEN
Bestimmt, wie effizient Sie forschen. Die Erforschung außerirdischer Organe liefert Aufschlüsse. Manche Objekte muß man vor der Benutzung erforschen.


OSA - Year 1
KINETISCHE UMLENKUNG
Zieht ein Objekt auf Sie zu.

PSYCHO-REFLEKTIONSSCHICHT
Schützt Sie vor 15% aller Kampfschäden.

PSYCHOGENER CYBER-WERT
Steigert Ihren Wert für CYB um 2.
Increases your Cybernetic Affinity by 2 (improves chances of successfully using Hack, Repair, and Modify skills).

NOTE: Psi effects are active only when cast.


OSA - Year 2
AUSDAUER
Bestimmt Ihr Maximum an Trefferpunkten und Ihre Widerstandsfähigkeit gegen Strahlung und Gifte.

FORSCHEN
Bestimmt, wie effizient Sie forschen. Die Erforschung außerirdischer Organe liefert Aufschlüsse. Manche Objekte muß man vor der Benutzung erforschen.

PSIONIK-FÄHIGKEIT
Bestimmt Ihre Können im Psi-Bereich. Die Dauer, Reichweite und Schadenswirkung der psionischen Kräfte kann von PSI abhängen.


OSA - Year 3
PSYCHOGENE WENDIGKEIT
Steigert Ihre Wendigkeit um 2.

NEURO-REFLEXDÄMPFUNG
Eliminiert Waffenrückstoß.

ELEKTRONEN-FERNMANIPULATION
Verkürzt die Alarmdauer.

NOTE: Psi effects are active only when cast.


By the way, I'm not super happy with the phrase "Psi effects are active only when cast", but it was the shortest way I could think of to say "You don't get a permanent buff by selecting this skill, it's a psi power that only gives you this buff when you cast it."

[6743b61623584Vegoraptor]

UNN CAREER ADVISOR

UNN Laufbahn-Ratgeber is probably the closest you can get unambiguously. Another option would be UNN Karriereberater, but that doesn't really fit the job these boards do.

Marines - Year 2
WAFFENTRAINING
Dieses Fähigkeit steigert die Wirkung konventioneller, schwerer, oder Energiewaffen.

Note that, while technically correct and understandable, "konventionelle Waffen" are referred to as "Standardwaffen" in the upgrade units, and probably other places. Keeping this consistent would result in something along the lines of:
Diese Fähigkeit steigert die Wirkung von Standard-, schweren und Energiewaffen.

DER CYBER-WERT
Steigert Ihre Chancen beim Hacken, Reparieren und Modifizieren, und die Zahl der dabei auftretenden gefährlichen Abwehrknoten sinkt.

Should be pretty clear regardless, so it could be left out if space is a concern.

WARTUNGSFÄHIGKEIT
Bestimmt, wie sehr Sie den jetzigen Zustand einer Waffe oder eines Geschützes optimieren können. Erhöht außerdem die Ladungskapazität von Gegenständen.

PSYCHOGENER CYBER-WERT
Steigert Ihren Wert für CYB um 2 und erhöht so die Erfolgsaussichten bei Hacking, Wartung und Modifikation.

ACHTUNG: PSI-Fähigkeiten müssen aktiv eingesetzt werden.

I think "This is an active ability" would also be a concise way of putting it. Would require for the reader to have a basic understanding of general videogame mechanics, but you can hardly expect to cover every case.

[6743b616236fdZylonBane]

Thanks! Attached are the screens, please take a look and make sure I didn't mis-place any hyphens. @Kolya, you still around? The more eyes the better.

I'm a bit concerned that this ended up using both "standard" and "konventioneller" to refer to standard weapons in different places. Really, the most important thing is that the titles match the popup text when you walk in front of each door, so new players can go look up each stat/skill.

[ATTACHMENT REMOVED]

[6743b6162380fZylonBane]

Meanwhile...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXxUevrJJJ4
What do you guys think? Too much?

[6743b61623937sarge945]

Maybe a little too much, not sure.

Would make a good minimod, though, in any case.

Maybe use a better quality midi synthesiser? It sounds very....chunky and there are some really good sounding versions elsewhere

[6743b61623a0evoodoo47]

yeah, maybe a bit too much.

[6743b61623b6eZylonBane]

There are certainly more "smooth" covers of the cyberspace theme, but I used that one because it has that synth pipe organ "behold my final form" vibe. Also, it's implemented as proper music, so if players have music turned off they won't even hear it.

To be clear, the infinite-clip non-degrading assault rifle is just for testing.

[6743b61623f96Vegoraptor]

m2

DER CYBER-WERT
Steigert Ihre Chancen beim Hacken, Reparieren und Modifizieren, und die Zahl der dabei auftretenden gefährlichen Abwehrknoten sinkt.

n2

KONVENTIONELLER WAFFEN

German grammar may be a bit confusing to the untrained mind (in the description, "konventioneller" is right, since it is genitive case). Alternatively STANDARDWAFFEN, as discussed.

DER CYBER-WERT
Steigert Ihre Chancen beim Hacken, Reparieren und Modifizieren, und die Zahl der dabei auftretenden gefährlichen Abwehrknoten sinkt.

n3

FORSCHEN
Bestimmt, wie effizient Sie forschen. Die Erforschung außerirdischer Organe liefert Aufschlüsse über ihre Benutzung oder taktische Vorteile.

Combining the second and third sentence is not strictly necessary, but makes it sound more natural. This also makes it a bit clearer what sort of insights to expect, i.e. increased damage, for the most part.

o1

PSYCHO-REFLEKTIVER SCHIRM

PSYCHOGENER CYBER-WERT
Steigert Ihren Wert für CYB
um 2 (erhöht so die Erfolgs-
aussichten bei Hacking,
Wartung und Modifikation).

o2

FORSCHEN
Bestimmt, wie effizient Sie forschen. Die Erforschung außerirdischer Organe liefert Aufschlüsse über ihre Benutzung oder taktische Vorteile.

As for the cyberspace music, I think it could work if presentation was tweaked a bit. Right now, the entire ordeal is rather jarring; You float through a tunnel with SHODAN rambling menacingly, and one moment later you are gently plopped down in front of her and expected to think fast. System Shock Infinite may have done something there to smoothen the transition, but I can't quite remember. In any case, if the music was slowly fading in while the echoes of her invitation to end the dance dissipated, it would probably not pull you out of the immersion as much. Also, the volume of "Die, irritant" and all that would have to be increased a bit.

[6743b61624680ZylonBane]

o1
PSYCHO-REFLEKTIVER SCHIRM

I was going to ask why you recommended this change, but then I looked in CHARGEN.STR and saw that it uses a different name for this power than PSIHELP.STR. Shame on Irrational. There should be a mod that fixes these issues.

As for the cyberspace music, I think it could work if presentation was tweaked a bit. Right now, the entire ordeal is rather jarring; You float through a tunnel with SHODAN rambling menacingly, and one moment later you are gently plopped down in front of her and expected to think fast.

That's exactly how the base game works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFVKcpKH64g&t=1545s

Anyway, regarding my video above, the music isn't the only change. This also shows off some tweaks to the boss fight:
- SHODAN shoots from her eyes now instead of her forehead.
- Shield regeneration has been disabled. To compensate, the shield segments have been given more starting HP.
- Shield max HP is now based on difficulty.
- The first hit on a shield segment changes its color, to signal to players that they can be damaged.
- Shield HP is indicated by color. Green, then yellow, then red. Transparency still changes too, but now the segments become less transparent at each color, so the damaged spots in SHODAN's defense stand out more.
- Shield segments flash when hit, because it looks cool.
- Hacking the shield computers is no longer all-or-nothing. Hacking one computer damages all shield segments by 1/3 of their max HP. Hacking a second computer damages by another 1/3. Hacking the third computer destroys them, as in vanilla.

The main intent of these changes is to fix the SHODAN fight's flaw that in its vanilla state it's basically only winnable by hacking, or by being armed with high-DPS weapons. With shield regeneration it's impossible for low-DPS weapons like the laser pistol to damage them faster than they can regenerate. As I believe has already been noted in this thread, many players aren't even aware that the shields can be destroyed with weapons.

There will be a minimod available on release that reverts all of these changes to the vanilla mechanics, for those who prefer the classic unbalanced boss fight.

Another change I'd like to try, but not sure if I can pull off, is fixing the respawn interval of the SHODAN avatars. Currently their respawning is managed by an ecology. Since ecologies run on an independent population check timer, that means the mini-SHODANs can respawn almost immediately, which makes it not even worth the effort to kill them.

[6743b61624accVegoraptor]

That's exactly how the base game works

I know, I just wanted to point out that the sudden music further emphasizes this abrupt change of scenery and atmosphere.

[6743b61624c66ZylonBane]

Ah, that's good then! Music should match the gameplay.

Okay, here's V2.

I do have a question about this line:
"Diese Fähigkeit steigert die Wirkung von Standard-, Schweren, und Energiewaffen."

Is it really correct that Standard is hyphenated but Schweren is not? I'm not even sure this grammatical construct exists in German, e.g. writing "Standard, Heavy, or Energy weapons" instead of "Standard weapons, Heavy weapons, or Energy weapons".

Also, shouldn't that be "oder" instead of "und"? Saying "and" implies that you'll be trained in ALL those weapons, while "or" implies that it's only one of them. Like, "You can have cake and ice cream." vs "You can have cake or ice cream."
[german training v2.7z expired]

[6743b616251d9Vegoraptor]

Ah, that's good then! Music should match the gameplay.

If your goal is to further accentuate a jarring moment that breaks immersion, then yes, total success achieved.

Is it really correct that Standard is hyphenated but Schweren is not?

Yes, both Standardwaffen and Energiewaffen are legitimate compund words. On the other hand, schwere Waffen (and konventionelle Waffen, for that matter) is not, with schwere being an adjective, hence the lower case. I am no linguist, so I can't exactly tell you which of the myriad of rules applies here, I just use this language on a daily basis and can assure you that Schwerwaffen would raise eyebrows, and Konventionalwaffen even more so. You can check the weapons upgrade station strings to verify this.

As for und/oder, you are right, it should be oder if you have to choose one of the three.

o2

PSIONIK-FÄHIGKEIT
Bestimmt Ihre Können im Psi-Bereich.

That one slipped through last time, sorry. Looking good otherwise.

[6743b6162543csarge945]

I've recently been going over the Rick maps as part of making them work with my Randomiser, and I have noticed a couple of issues that I believe should be fixed.

rick1:
- Psi Hypo (914) is placed inside a black egg and is visibly sticking out. My guess is that this is supposed to "explode out" of the egg. That is, you destroy the egg and it is lying there as if it was inside it, but it's sticking out. I recommend moving it further inside the egg
- Battery 2120 is visibly floating above it's gurney, because the gurney has a very barebones bounding box, so objects placed on top of it seem to "float". This can be fixed by moving the battery into place and assigning physics controls
- Worms spawning near corpse 2917 are visible when spawning. The Tweq Trap should probably be moved (maybe make them come from the corpse nearby like many other worm traps)
- The radiation room (Near radiation FX 491) has a broken window to outer space. The room should be depressurising rapidly and be in a state of vacuum. Doors need to be added to the missile launch bays, opening to allow the missiles to fire and then closing again, to ensure there is no breech.

rick3:
- If you turn around while pressing the "Launch" button on the shuttle, you can see the door behind you still open - you're very obviously not moving. Maybe the door should close fully after you press the button, THEN the launch happens. Would also add some more suspense to the scene

Also, unrelated, the rick2 and rick3 maps don't load Squirrel.osm, making them much harder to test in the editor. They seem to work ok in-game, though.

[6743b61625566voodoo47]

hypo 914 - no, it's just there. no problem imho.
battery 2120 - a tiny bit of float. will adjust.
corpse 2197 worm spawn - yes, will adjust.
window is just cracked, it would take a million years for all the rick air to escape. not a big deal.

the shuttle door is fixed in the latest b5 map iirc.
the maps load all scripts properly in the latest b5.

[6743b616257fdZylonBane]

window is just cracked, it would take a million years for all the rick air to escape. not a big deal.

One can probably also assume that there's a force field where the torpedoes exit the ship, like in the shuttle bays.

[6743b61625a86sarge945]

One can probably also assume that there's a force field where the torpedoes exit the ship, like in the shuttle bays.

Except we can't see one, unlike every other forcefield in the game. Quickly adding one in would probably be beneficial.

Cracking window not blocking radiation but blocking air makes no sense to me. From what I understand, radiation basically goes through everything, regardless of cracked or not cracked. If it's tight enough to not let air escape, I think whoever is standing behind it is fine. Especially considering videogame logic where cracked glass always equals bad for air in any sort of underwater or space situation.

But it's obviously a nitpick.

[6743b61625bb1voodoo47]

the field can be someplace else, the torpedo tube opening for example (which is too far away to be seen by the naked eye).

the crack serves its purpose, letting the player know, "hey look, glowy green stuff behind cracked window! bad, probably!" and that's it. don't think about things too hard, because you may find out potted plants are immune to fusion blasts, and that you won't unsee, ever.

[6743b61625e36sarge945]

you may find out potted plants are immune to fusion blasts, and that you won't unsee, ever.

Thanks a lot