SCP Beta 4 Issue Reporting

[6743e510545c5ZylonBane]

The insides of the nacelles would be exactly the wrong place to visualize their state, since players have to go out of their way to see it. The ideal setup for this sort of thing is something you can't miss, like how the central engine core is set up. Players always see that it's dark on their way in, and lit up on their way out.

Unfortunately the nacelles don't have much in the way of external affordances for indicating their state. There's an ambient sound in the nacelles that could be made to only play after activation, but visually... I dunno.

[6743e5105479fvoodoo47]

I just find it odd that the nacelles are all already lit up despite the player trying to reactivate them to restore power, you know, the very thing that makes other things light up, and when missing, there is only darkness.

also, we have fixed the ambient sound iirc, the hum that indicates they are operational again should only start once the core is up. //aha, no, that was just the core being operational sound.

[6743e51054896ZylonBane]

That's only in the central core area. There is currently no scripting applied to the nacelle ambients.

[6743e51054988voodoo47]

correct, it was indeed just the core.

so yeah, why not do it then? activate the nacelle ambient only once the nacelle is reactivated.

[6743e5105502cRocketMan]

I'm not following your thought process at all here. Why would you want to not notice it? It's basically the exact same engine core as in vanilla, but higher-poly. We're not turning it into the Enterprise warp core here.

Assuming I liked every change, then I suppose it wouldn't be a problem.  However some stuff is either worse looking than before (this is subjective of course) or even if it's better, it's something that I was happier with the way it was and didn't want it to change.  Since it's bundled with SCP though, not much I can do about that.

Just to clarify, by better and worse I don't mean levels of goodness on some absolute scale.  Something that is technically competent can be an eyesore for example or other times it's just so different that your memory flags it when you get there and you have to stop being the soldier in ss2 for a moment and pull yourself out of that to say... "oh yeah this is where they updated the engine core...  huh.." and then go back to playing again.  I just don't want that to happen while playing the game.

If there's something I think fits well into the game universe and there's a specific mod for it, I'll grab that mod and install it.  The flexibility of mods is important to me, sometimes almost as much as the mod itself.

tweaks to the architecture have been a thing for a very long time.

Yes.  I just don't usually say anything about it. 

[6743e510552d9RoSoDude]

On the topic of important geometry changes, could you reduce the PhysDims on this pipe? It completely blocks you from shooting the egg despite an obvious visual gap, it's very annoying.

[6743e510553bbZylonBane]

That should be doable.

[6743e51055780tiphares4]

As for engine nacelles: Maybe add some more pipes (various diameters)?
Since it always seemed way much too barren for a machine room..




Also:

..other times it's just so different that your memory flags it when you get there and you have to stop being the soldier in ss2 for a moment and pull yourself out of that to say... "oh yeah this is where they updated the engine core...  huh.." and then go back to playing again.  I just don't want that to happen while playing the game

?????

[6743e51055fc0sarge945]

The insides of the nacelles would be exactly the wrong place to visualize their state, since players have to go out of their way to see it. The ideal setup for this sort of thing is something you can't miss, like how the central engine core is set up. Players always see that it's dark on their way in, and lit up on their way out.

Unfortunately the nacelles don't have much in the way of external affordances for indicating their state. There's an ambient sound in the nacelles that could be made to only play after activation, but visually... I dunno.

What I particularly hate is that the "powering up" sound in the nacelles seems to cut off abruptly, which triggers my anxiety.

I would recommend adding some big "Nacelle A: Offline" and "Nacelle B: Offline" displays to the main engine core area on the ground level where you walk in, similar to how Half-Life has the "Oxy" and "Fuel" lights being red in the first Blast Pit area. It really shows what you need to do.

That said, anyone who doesn't know what to do in SS2 despite the constant emails is an idiot.

"oh yeah this is where they updated the engine core...  huh.." and then go back to playing again.  I just don't want that to happen while playing the game.

This will happen to anyone who reads any changelog, unfortunately. It's not just for geometry either. For example, if you read "Increased enemy health by 10%" in a patch note, then every time you shoot an enemy who ends up on low health without dying you'll think to yourself "oh yeah, that's right, they updated the health values". This happens in many games, I remember being triggered when they changed some TF2 animations after a decade.

The good news is, the feeling passes and you get used to it. Having an overall more distinct look for a small period of annoyance is worth it in my book. Especially since newer players will also have a better experience from the get go without the annoyance.

Overall, despite the changes, the only thing I actively hate about SCP are some of the gameplay changes, but luckily most of them are already reverted for the next version.

[6743e510563e7ZylonBane]

I would recommend adding some big "Nacelle A: Offline" and "Nacelle B: Offline" displays to the main engine core area on the ground level where you walk in

I really don't think that's necessary. The engine core area is so small that you can finish this quest in literally a minute, so even if players just follow a wall around the entire area and click on everything they see, they'll finish it pretty quickly.

The nacelles are a bit of a wasted gameplay opportunity if you think about it. All you have to do is enter each nacelle, head directly left or right to reach the control room, click the big button, then leave. Irrational could have easily mixed things up by damaging or throwing debris on the walkways, forcing players to figure out a path to the control room.

[6743e510566f5sarge945]

The nacelles are a bit of a wasted gameplay opportunity if you think about it. All you have to do is enter each nacelle, head directly left or right to reach the control room, click the big button, then leave. Irrational could have easily mixed things up by damaging or throwing debris on the walkways, forcing players to figure out a path to the control room.

Don't tell anyone (it's a secret), but I've heard that someone is working on a randomiser mod, and as part of it, it's rumored that they are looking to be able to add debris and other blockers to various areas to make them more interesting, block off certain pathways, etc. I don't know if it would break the AI pathing, though.

[6743e510567e5voodoo47]

the rec1 pipe/egg situation is already resolved in b5.

[6743e51056a64ZylonBane]

I don't know if it would break the AI pathing, though.

It absolutely would. If the pathfinding database tells an AI it has a clear path, it will walk into a solid object forever trying to follow that path.

[6743e51056b98ZylonBane]

A suggestion has been made that the Maintenance Access transition between Med/Sci and Engineering should be triggered by frobbing the hatch instead of by just getting close to it.

I personally would be in favor of this. Everywhere else on the Von Braun, level transitions are only triggered by explicit player command (or by stepping into an obviously one-way gravshaft to the Rickenbacker).

[6743e51056c78voodoo47]

not a fan of frobbing, but a button I wouldn't mind.

[6743e51056d47ZylonBane]

A button that you'd frob?

[6743e51056e23voodoo47]

frobbing the hatch directly. frobable hatches are a Deus Ex thing, not a SS2 thing.

[6743e51056ee8ZylonBane]

They were a Thief thing first.

[6743e51057058Nameless Voice]

Any particular reason?  Seems like it would make that level transition more awkward.

[6743e51057151ZylonBane]

I've never liked it because it feels like the game unilaterally deciding "Oh, you walked close to this thing? That means you want to be on the other side of it!"

[6743e51057408sarge945]

Something about the long shaft and then needing to frob doesn't sit right with me.

In general, "falling" into a new map is far less egregious than being transported there because you walked close to it.

I'm in favour of this simply because it will kill speedrun exploits, which I consider to universally be a good thing because speedrunning is cringe.

It absolutely would. If the pathfinding database tells an AI it has a clear path, it will walk into a solid object forever trying to follow that path.

I'm going to look into how RSD did it with the powercell mechanic (which adds a few doors), and see if it's replicatable. If it's not consistent enough to be properly generic, then it's going in the bin with all the other interesting ideas that never came to anything.

[6743e51057533RoSoDude]

I think falling into the hatch is a really obvious level transition, it's not like you will be accidentally running down there. Adding another step would just be an annoyance IMO, especially if you're on the ladder and you have to figure out how to dismount to get low enough to frob it or something.

[6743e51057651voodoo47]

if the tripwire is prone to be eaten by the goblin, a backup level transition button could be added at the bottom of the shaft.
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[6743e510577b2sarge945]

Okay so, Crystal Shard 1735 (inside desk 354) in rec1.mis has no email trap associated with it.

This is strange because the other shard in the map (1942 inside the apartment locked with the 11111 door) DOES send an email, as do all the other shards in rec. It's not a big deal - this shard is in Athletics, so it's extremely unlikely that a player somehow skips every single shard in Recreation and Ops and somehow finds this one as their first shard, however it's probably best for consistency that the desk should trigger the email trap, just in case.

I only found this because I was recreating all the email traps for the randomiser via script.