SCP Beta 4 Feature Suggestions

[6742fab1be934sarge945]

I was asked to move my SCP requested features (from SECMOD) to a new thread, so I thought it would be a good idea to just make a general suggestions thread. Voodoo and the other developers should probably take control of this at some point.

Remember that suggestions should impact gameplay as little as possible.

Anyway, I will start by requesting some of the nice features of SECMOD which aren't gameplay-related. I would love if these could be ported across, as I believe they would make the game significantly nicer and feel more modern, especially to a first time player. All of these features already exist in Secmod, so hopefully they are easier to port across rather than having to do it from scratch.

1. Boxes, desks, and other objects play an opening animation and remain open when searched. I think this is the best non-gameplay feature of SECMOD
2. Wrench (and I assume other melee weapons - although I am not up to that yet) start clean and get progressively more bloody as they are used
3. There are some cool new props on tables and such (like this thing). Obviously there are also extensive map changes, which affect gameplay so are out of scope, but having a few extra cool props could be fun occasionally.
4. Energy Charging stations create a blue haze effect when charging items.
5. The player grunts when mantling. It seems to fit the game much better than the default which I think is silent?
6. A lot of PSI abilities have extra effects, for example cryokenesis creates extra blue particles emenating from the psi amp. These have no effect on the actual game, of course, but the psi abilities in the vanilla game (and SCP) seem extremely underwhelming, and giving them some proper visual effects helps a lot.
7. Eating chips creates actual chips. Probably a bit too silly though
8. Organs (hybrid organ, etc) make blood splatters when dropped on the ground. Seems fitting, especially with the sound they make. Maybe the Worm* implants and some other annelid objects should leave behind orange goo as well, including the annelid worms which I don't think leave anything when they die?
9. Turret and robot explosions also seem to be enhanced. I can't pinpoint exactly what is going on though
10. A text box with the deck name appears upon entering a new deck for the first time
11. SECMOD seems to add a blue tint to your vision when irradiated. I think Green fits better. But it is a nice visual indicator that you are irradiated.
12. May want to check out/add some of the eating/drinking/smoking sounds from SECMOD, although I know SCP has it's own sounds.
13. The Many cutscene in engineering can be skipped with Right Click.

Also, not a SECMOD idea, but since there are only 2 doors in the game (that I remember) which use Power Cells, both in med/sci, it seems awfully convenient that they are the only ones you need to use ever and then the mechanic is dropped. Maybe put some Auxillary battery terminals (where a power cell goes) next to some of the other inaccessible doors in the game, with no actual powercells to open them, so it feels like there are some actual other doors in the game which are also powered by power cells. In case people think they need to find a hidden powercell, if the battery terminal was visually damaged (at an angle, sparking etc) it would send a clear message that they are not there for gameplay reasons. Just an atmosphere thing and shouldn't be too hard to implement?

[6742fab1beacaZylonBane]

Why do you keep typing SecMod in ALL CAPS?

[6742fab1bec67Vegoraptor]

Not a fan of 10. and 11. personally, you just clicked the elevator button for the deck anyway (aside from the one time you take the ladder like a real man), and being irradiated does nothing to your eyes, at least short-term, and shouldn't really interfere with your optical implants either.
Other than that, this would probably work well with the SCP Extended Edition that voodoo mentioned he was thinking about whether or not to think about it at some point in the future.

[6742fab1bef2cvoodoo47]

1) yeah this is pretty nice (but not completely without problems), and there is a good chance it will make it into SCP eventually.
2) iirc, this isn't without problems, and I personally don't really love it.
3) not too fond of adding random/non canon junk objects, but some toilet necessities will probably make it in someday.
4) this feels like something that doesn't need fixing.
5) maybe. we would have to find a good voiceactor or some other source of mantling grunts - I think Secmod uses player damage sounds, which feel slightly off.
6) see 4
7) ditto
8 ) spawning decals is a bit problematic in the Dark Engine, as it can end up looking really bad, so it should be avoided unless the decals are really small (bullet holes). also organs, once taken out of a corpse, are actually pretty dry, so them leaving a blood pool each and every time they are dropped onto the ground is pretty over the top.
9) again, the vanilla effects are perfectly allright.
10) another thing that is up to personal preference. I don't feel like it's missing in SCP.
11) ditto
12) ditto
13) well, yeah

we are aware of the power cell thing (that's why powering up the rec1 transmitter has been made a requirement for completing the quest), but adding more of power cell locked doors is currently out of scope.

as mentioned, a very good reason needs to exist to justify a complete change or addition of something (be it a mechanic or an effect), and one person thinking that something looks cool is usually not enough. basically, linking the already existing power cell slot to the transmitter is ok, popping a battery locked door in the middle of some level just because we can isn't. the bullet holes are a good example as well - yes, they are a straight addition, but there is overwhelming evidence in the editor that they were originally supposed to be in the game, and just weren't ready when the deadline hit.

bad things happen to community projects that present themselves as true to the original but go nuts with everything.

[6742fab1bf5beZylonBane]

I was asked to move my SCP requested features (from SECMOD) to a new thread, so I thought it would be a good idea to just make a general suggestions thread. Voodoo and the other developers should probably take control of this at some point.

Container opening animations: Love the idea in theory, but the SecMod animations are a bit too clunky for SCP's "official but better" mandate. The crate in particular looks like it's about to eat you when it opens, and it's obviously just a hollow shell inside. Even if someone could come up with a realistic opening animation for it, the crate is placed in so many different positions in the game that it would inevitably end up looking weird and wrong for some of them.

Bloody wrench: Meh. Gore for gore's sake.

New props: I've actually thought about this a lot. I wouldn't advocate the really obvious new props like some that SecMod uses, but instead more subtle ones that would feel like they always should have been there-- plates and flatware on the mess hall tables, sheets of paper, loose clothing, ashtrays, etc. Stuff that would blend seamlessly into the environments, like the duct connectors we added a while ago.

Charging station blue haze: If that happened when I used a charging station I'd be unplugging it and calling maintenance.

Mantle grunts: I'm personally in favor of this. We'd just have to grab the Garrett grunts from Thief, since Stephen Russell did the Soldier's pain grunts anyway. IIRC Voodoo is against this.

Psi visual effects: I wouldn't mind juicing them up a bit. The trick is making them look better, not just "more".

Eating chips creates chips: WTF?

Organ blood: More gratuitous gore. No.

Turret and robot explosions: SCP already enhances them improved lighting, particles, and bitmap animation.

New deck notification: Eh, not really SS2's style. Irrational could have easily done that. They didn't.

Radiation tint: Getting irradiated is already obvious and annoying enough.

Eating sounds: Yes, SCP already has its own sounds. In fact I was thinking about adding a belch if the player drinks a ridiculous amount of alcohol at once, like 10 or more bottles in under 5 seconds. Almost more of an Easter egg. We're on the fence about it.

Skipping the Many cutscene: Seems too gamey to me.

[6742fab1bfccfvoodoo47]

Container opening animations: Love the idea in theory, but

yep, hence "not completely without problems".

Mantle grunts.. IIRC Voodoo is against this.

not strictly - it's more like I don't think this is necessary, and unsure whether the instantly recognizable thief grunts would fit properly. "hey they nabbed Thief sounds" is not what people should think when trying to mantle in SS2/SCP for the first time. but I guess I wouldn't mind too much in the end.

definitely not a fan of the belch idea though, something like that really doesn't have a "shocky" vibe to it, and is better left to Benny, I think. but again, I'm certainly not throwing tantrums if you want it in.

[6742fab1bfdedZylonBane]

Really, how often do players chug 10 bottles of booze at once?

Maybe a generic pain sound instead of a belch. I think there are some unused ones.

[6742fab1bfebfvoodoo47]

sure why not. and spawn a small puke puddle.

[6742fab1bff9dZylonBane]

Well let's not be silly. The player dropping half their inventory on the ground should be sufficient.

[6742fab1c0222unn_atropos]

Could 2. be a stand alone mod?
I can see 8. in my mind: Organs with basketball properties hopping through a level, leaving red dots on walls and floors. 

[6742fab1c04d2Olfred]

About opening animations on boxes and shit. I could surely help out in that regard. About them being hollow. Well, you could just fill it up with smaller boxes and shit wrapped in cloths. Stuff still being in the crates/boxes after they have been looted could be excused with "yeah, that was stuff that isn't helpful at all so it doesn't get listed". Or, if possible, you create a sophisticated mechanism that checks if a box still got loot in it after being frobbed and if not, then do the switchero to another model which is empty.

[6742fab1c06abZylonBane]

The problem with crates is that there's no way to have them "open" without many of them ending up opening into a wall, the floor, or another object. Repositioning every single crate in the game to avoid problems with an opening animation is not an option. And even then, none of the SS2 crates look like they have hinged lids. The rounded grey crate looks like it's designed for the lid to be completely removed when opening, and the small crate doesn't have any apparent way to open it at all!

Desks... well, one of them has an obvious side drawer that could be animated sliding out. That would work well. But the other kind of desk appears to have a flip top, which couldn't be animated because it would clip through anything sitting on top of it. I guess you could give it a front drawer, but it wouldn't really match the texture.

Eggs... no. Lockers... yes. Robot debris... no. Bodies... no.

So yeah, out of all the searchable objects in the game, it seems like only maybe two or three could be given a practical opening animation. That seems like the sort of interface inconsistency that would just draw attention to itself, hurting immersion instead of helping.

[6742fab1c3632sarge945]

1) yeah this is pretty nice (but not completely without problems), and there is a good chance it will make it into SCP eventually.

Awesome! That's the main killer feature from secmod (besides the gameplay), IMO.

3) not too fond of adding random/non canon junk objects, but some toilet necessities will probably make it in someday.

As stated below, objects don't need to be non-canon, I guess I just gave the worst example in the game in general. They don't even need to be new - adding some of the existing junk (mugs, magazines, etc) to, say, the command and ops decks would liven them up a bit and maybe make them feel less like bland empty corridoors. It has some implications for the recycler though, so that's maybe a bad idea.

8 ) spawning decals is a bit problematic in the Dark Engine, as it can end up looking really bad, so it should be avoided unless the decals are really small (bullet holes). also organs, once taken out of a corpse, are actually pretty dry, so them leaving a blood pool each and every time they are dropped onto the ground is pretty over the top.

Fair enough. I still think annelid worms look really weird how they just break into pieces and leave no blood. But it's your call.

13) we are aware (that's why powering up the rec1 transmitter has been made a requirement for completing the quest), but adding more of power cell locked doors is currently out of scope.

The actual mechanic would not be needed, just a few (dead and sparking) power cell receivers next to inaccessible doors. I guess it goes into the realm of "extra fluff for no reason" though. IMO it would remove the gamey-ness of the powercell doors, but you have already said you don't like this idea so I will stop talking about it.

as mentioned, a very good reason needs to exist to justify a complete change or addition of something (be it a mechanic or an effect), and one person thinking that something looks cool is usually not enough. basically, linking the already existing power cell slot to the transmitter is ok, popping a battery locked door in the middle of some level just because we can isn't. the bullet holes are a good example as well - yes, they are a straight addition, but there is overwhelming evidence in the editor that they were originally supposed to be in the game, and just weren't ready when the deadline hit.

Fair enough. I tend to get carried away sometimes. I would make a horrible game developer for that reason. I am glad there are level headed people on this project who can reign in ideas and separate the good from the bad.

bad things happen to community projects that present themselves as true to the original but go nuts with everything.

touche

Container opening animations: Love the idea in theory, but the SecMod animations are a bit too clunky for SCP's "official but better" mandate. The crate in particular looks like it's about to eat you when it opens, and it's obviously just a hollow shell inside. Even if someone could come up with a realistic opening animation for it, the crate is placed in so many different positions in the game that it would inevitably end up looking weird and wrong for some of them.

The Secmod crate has some problems. A better design might be to only open the lid slightly, and have some junk clearly inside.

New props: I've actually thought about this a lot. I wouldn't advocate the really obvious new props like some that SecMod uses, but instead more subtle ones that would feel like they always should have been there-- plates and flatware on the mess hall tables, sheets of paper, loose clothing, ashtrays, etc. Stuff that would blend seamlessly into the environments, like the duct connectors we added a while ago.

TBH, I think some extra small props would really liven up ops deck especially. It seems really bare and barren in the base game. Some papers on some desks would go a long way to making it feel like an organisational/management hub rather than a series of mostly empty hallways and barren rooms.

Psi visual effects: I wouldn't mind juicing them up a bit. The trick is making them look better, not just "more".

The real problem with the psi effects IMO is many of them look identical, and almost none of them feel satisfying. I think psi would get a lot more love if it felt more powerful and unique, even if it was statistically the same as it is now.

Eating sounds: Yes, SCP already has its own sounds. In fact I was thinking about adding a belch if the player drinks a ridiculous amount of alcohol at once, like 10 or more bottles in under 5 seconds. Almost more of an Easter egg. We're on the fence about it.

I was mainly thinking more unique sounds for more food/drink types. IIRC, SCP uses the same drinking sounds for all drinks and the same eating sound for all food? Secmod has things like can opening sounds for soda. Kinda cool, but I can see how it would be considered too much effort and it is not really worth much.

Skipping the Many cutscene: Seems too gamey to me.

Perhaps, but when you have seen the cutscene 40-50 times, I doubt you would be focused on immersion at that point anyway. Being able to skip cutscenes is always a pretty standard feature for games and it exists because even the best cutscenes get boring eventually.

The problem with crates is that there's no way to have them "open" without many of them ending up opening into a wall, the floor, or another object. Repositioning every single crate in the game to avoid problems with an opening animation is not an option. And even then, none of the SS2 crates look like they have hinged lids. The rounded grey crate looks like it's designed for the lid to be completely removed when opening, and the small crate doesn't have any apparent way to open it at all!

Desks... well, one of them has an obvious side drawer that could be animated sliding out. That would work well. But the other kind of desk appears to have a flip top, which couldn't be animated because it would clip through anything sitting on top of it. I guess you could give it a front drawer, but it wouldn't really match the texture.

Eggs... no. Lockers... yes. Robot debris... no. Bodies... no.

So yeah, out of all the searchable objects in the game, it seems like only maybe two or three could be given a practical opening animation. That seems like the sort of interface inconsistency that would just draw attention to itself, hurting immersion instead of helping.

You probably have a point. Secmod seems to do it right. I think you can get away with a crate opening slightly into a wall, etc. But you guys probably know better.

In Secmod, the flip top desks don't seem to open at all.

But you could get interface consistency in other ways without specifically opening the object. If opening crates causes too many problems, why not just skip opening the crates entirely and instead change the green lights on them to a different color (or turn them off) to signify that the crate is empty? The same thing could be done to the flip desks, since they have green lights on them. I am not sure about eggs, but something should be possible to show they have been looted.

Bodies and Bots disappear pretty quickly anyway, so the whole "have I looted this yet" question doesn't really apply, as you are generally looting it as you kill it.

[6742fab1c3966Olfred]

yadda yadda

Well, it's up to you and voodoo if this should be done or not. Just know that I'm here to make the model related stuff possible, even when it's out of my current workings.

[6742fab1c3a7aZylonBane]

Y'know, it been bugging me for a while that there's nowhere obvious on the sim units for the player to plug in the sim cards. Thoughts?

[6742fab1c3cb5sarge945]

Y'know, it been bugging me for a while that there's nowhere obvious on the sim units for the player to plug in the sim cards. Thoughts?

They seem to be smaller versions of the card you have to insert in Engineering to get the fluidics control computer working. So maybe if there was a similar slot in the Simulation units?

Maybe Olfred has some ideas, as the resident modeller

[6742fab1c4040RoSoDude]

Just to put my two cents in, I'd be against new mantling sounds and more drawn out eating/drinking sounds. At the very least, I don't care for Secmod's grunting sound. It's frankly distracting -- Goggles is a quiet guy and only really produces vocalizations when he's being shot full of lead (to the point that I kinda forget he has a voice at all before the end cutscene). And the current consumption sounds are snappy and to the point -- they communicate what you just did by clicking on the object and don't outstay their welcome.

I'd think the best role for new effects is for situations where something wasn't communicated clearly or was just lacking in obvious detail -- no bullet holes, lack of a slot for a sim card (when I first played SS2 I wasn't sure how exactly I should activate the sim units with the cards, this may have been why), lackluster effects on the Stasis Field Generator, etc. I'd feel a bit uneasy about some of these additions, for however much my opinion is worth.

[6742fab1c43d1sarge945]

Just to put my two cents in, I'd be against new mantling sounds and more drawn out eating/drinking sounds. At the very least, I don't care for Secmod's grunting sound. It's frankly distracting -- Goggles is a quiet guy and only really produces vocalizations when he's being shot full of lead (to the point that I kinda forget he has a voice at all before the end cutscene). And the current consumption sounds are snappy and to the point -- they communicate what you just did by clicking on the object and don't outstay their welcome.

Secmod's eat/drink sounds are a bit over the top, I guess. But it would be nice to have a larger variety of quick, snappy sounds. Currently drinking soda sounds the same as drinking alcohol, and I think it would be nice with a quick "tsst" as the can opens, before the gulp, for example.

You might be right about the mantling sounds. I think something needs to be done though. They are IIRC completely silent or use the standard jump sound, which sounds really awkward and weak.

Maybe I am just requesting changes for changes sake, like some sort of crazy person

[6742fab1c4643Olfred]

Y'know, it been bugging me for a while that there's nowhere obvious on the sim units for the player to plug in the sim cards. Thoughts?

It's quite obvious, actually
[sim.jpg expired]

[6742fab1c476evoodoo47]

I could live with that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExS4Q-0M9VM

[6742fab1c4858Olfred]

There should be enough room to not cover the taupe light. Or is that disabled in general?

[6742fab1c4944voodoo47]

not enough room, also, if the light stripe is meant to indicate the slot, then it should not be visible once it's occupied.

[6742fab1c4a2cOlfred]

Oh ok, true.
So you want an extra model for it, or just do it the trickery way you just did?

[6742fab1c4b10voodoo47]

definitely not going to need a new model unless we'd want to have an actual new real slot someplace else.